Do these WhiteWater temps seem reasonable?

krazy · 03-01-2004, 08:51 AM

I've got my new whitewater block in and running, but the temperature differential between water temp and CPU temp seems ungodly high for transferring heat from XP1800>arcticsilver>copper>water.

My water temp, as measured in the reservoir between the heatercore outlet and pump inlet, levels out around 75 to 80 degrees farenheit (24 to 27 celsius). My motherboard CPU socket temperature probe climbs up to 95 or 100 farenheit (35 to 38 celsius) at low CPU usage (web browsing, winamp, idle, etc.).

Does this seem like too high of a temperature differential? Or is this about right for the block? i know that the motherboard sensors are far from accurate, but I figure I should at least be able to get an idea of how things run from it.

For the record, the radiator intake air is in the low 70s F (low 20s C) and the rad exhaust is a few degrees F higher.

logosmani · 03-01-2004, 09:02 AM

what were u getting before, and what kinda oc (if any) do u have going? (looks fine to me tho tbh)

krazy · 03-01-2004, 09:05 AM

no overclock. When I had a Thermaltake 6cu modified with an 80mm fan, I ran between 100 and 120 F all the time. (37 to 49 celsius)

Jabo · 03-01-2004, 09:31 AM

Two possible causes.
1. your pump is too weak
2. your block does not make proper contact with your cpu.

logosmani · 03-01-2004, 09:41 AM

thing is Abits temp reporting seems to be a bit of an issue, for example i get a reading of 42deg C @ idle from my IC7-G, whereas i get a reading of 31deg C at the waterblock/cpu interface region.. my board USED to give me a reading comparable to my waterblock/cpu reading but it jumped 10deg or so with a bios update, is it possible that this is the case here?

This is with a 2.4c clocked to 3050, running with a water temp of 27deg C (idle) btw

krazy · 03-01-2004, 10:29 AM

Hmm... I flashed to the current BIOS a month ago or so, and my CPU temps dropped 15 or 20 degrees farenheit.

I'm using a Danner Mag3, and the only blocks in the system so far are the whitewater on the CPU and a modified Innoavatek graph-o-matic on one of the split outlets of the WW.

The pump is moving a respectable amoutn of water when I lift the hose out of the peanut butter jar I'm using for a reservoir.

I am suspecting CPU die contact issues now too. Can anyone offer advice on mounting a block like the witewater? I followed the destructions from the box and tightened each nut down about six turns past mating with the spring, compressing the springs a decent amount. It still seems a little spooky and wiggles a bit more than I'd like it to.

Is it worth the trouble to omit the springs and just carefully tighten all four nuts to make the block sit more squarely without worrying about sideways forces applie by hoses? Is there a thread about these kinds of mounting issues?

AntiBling · 03-01-2004, 01:57 PM

One thing you might want to look at is how much airflow is around the CPU socket.

My setup in a nutshell is A7V8X-X, XP2400, with an RBX, Mag3 and a 89 Camaro heater core for cooling. My measured water temp with the rad fans @900RPM is 6 degrees F above ambient, 10 at full load. The CPU socket temp that is reported by Asus Probe varies not only with CPU load, but also depending on how high I turn up the case vent fan. With the case fan going slow, the reported CPU temp is 10-15 degrees F higher than if I turn the case fan up all the way, while the water temp remains unchanged. ( And no, I do not have the diode assignment mixed up, its running Probe which came with the Mobo ) As far as I can tell, the socket is heating up from the passive cooled NB just below it.

Just something to look at if you havent already.

krazy · 03-01-2004, 02:58 PM

Now that I've shut my box down, gone to class for a few hours, and returned, my temps are back down nice and low.

The coolant had a chance to cool back down to ambient , but otherwise everything is just as is before, and now my CPU temp is 77 F instead of 100 F. Water temp is reading 76 F according to my respectable quality thermometer in the res.

How can it be that my CPU temp is the same as my coolant temp (even if it is measured post-rad)

Cyco-Dude · 03-01-2004, 03:25 PM

could be inaccurate temp readings.

you might want to remove the block and make sure its making good contact with the core. then remount (with fresh AS) and crank down on the springs a bit more than you did befor. just as long as you tighten them evenly, it should be fine.

krazy · 03-01-2004, 04:17 PM

I'll have to try that, but I think I'll wait a short while for a somewhat major revamp I'll be doing, so as not to have to remount it again right away.

Where can I find info on reading the temp through the internal CPU diode? I know that it can be done by tapping into a few pins on the socket and reading it with some kind of interpreter, but otherwise I have no clue where to start. Can someone link me to a good overview or tutorial about this? I think it's time to move up from the motherboard's socket temp diode. :P

Cathar · 03-01-2004, 05:30 PM

Hmmm, the block shouldn't really "wiggle" much at all if tightened properly.

I suspect that the springs supplied may be a bit weaker than the manual assumes. Try tightening the block further.

rundymc · 03-02-2004, 06:56 PM

a relatively small problem maybe the fact you have a graph-o-matic on the one of the split outlets
meaning flow in the block is not even on each set of fins due to the uneven restriction (more on the side which has the grapho on it)

krazy · 03-02-2004, 07:17 PM

Well, the rest of my hose barbs came yesterday, so I fabricated a modified hold-down for the other modified graph-o-matic and took the machine down to install it. Now both outlets of the WW have an identical chipset block on them, and my CPU temp is back to a pretty consistent 75F. I didn't remount the WW, but I did put another turn or two on the nuts to compress the springs a little more as Cathar suggested.

I still don't know how much I can trust the socket thermister. Here is the low-down on temps and load right now:

CPU temp: 76F (socket mounted sensor read with SpeedFan)
rad intake air temp: 75F (indoor/outdoor thermometer's indoor sensor)
rad exhaust air temp: 80F (indoor/outdoor thermometer's outdoor probe)
rad exhaust water temp: 82F (capillary-style photographics thermometer submerged in res)

CPU: Palomino XP1800+ (1533mhz; everything is running at stock speeds)
CPU usage: I'd estimate 20-30% average over the last half hour or so (I'm installing software, browsing web, and playing music)
CPU TIM: Arctic Silver 3 paste

There is also a GF4ti4200 and my Abit NF7-S's nForce2 chipset in the water loop, both using previously described modified Innovatek graph-o-matic blocks.

Which temps are most suspect? Probably the CPU termister? Anyone know where can I find info on how to read the internal die sensor on this CPU with the NF7-S? I'm having a rough time finding info on this.

Groth · 03-02-2004, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy

Anyone know where can I find info on how to read the internal die sensor on this CPU with the NF7-S? I'm having a rough time finding info on this.

The NF7 has a over-temperature protection chip that reads the CPU thermal diode, but is incapable of passing a value to software. To get an internal temperature, you'll need to give it a dummy diode to read, and make an add-on thermal diode reader. See pH's article.

redleader · 03-05-2004, 05:38 PM

Absolute probe readings are basically worthless. Also I doubt you calibrated your coolant probe. For all you know the accuracy of those readings is each +/- 10C.

deltawing11 · 03-05-2004, 06:09 PM

You can absolutely not trust MB sensor reading. With an air cooling I was getting 4-5°C difference between CPU temps measured with a ABIT NF7-S V.2.0 temp sensor and a Senfu digital thermometer touching the side of a CPU, with a later always higher. Since I installed a waterblock and unplugged a CPU fan something changed and now CPU sensor temp are averagely 2-3°C higher than measured with a Senfu digital thermometer. Go figure???
My advise to you is to buy a digital thermometer (10$) and to forget about MB sensor readings. Much more reliable and stays same even when you change a BIOS...

feathers · 03-05-2004, 06:51 PM

"With an air cooling I was getting 4-5°C difference between CPU temps measured with a ABIT NF7-S V.2.0 temp sensor and a Senfu digital thermometer touching the side of a CPU, " - Were the two temp sensors attached to the same point? Or was one of the sensors an on-board/on-chip sensor?

There will always be differences in temp depending on where the measurements are taken from. Even if you have two perfectly calibrated sensors - if they are sensing from slightly different points then they will return different temp readings!

There can be 6 celsius or more difference between reported temp and actual temp with an on-chip thermal diode. Results will even be different between bios and windows readings. On-chip thermal sensors are designed to give an approximate reading rather than a high-precision reading.

feathers · 03-05-2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy

I've got my new whitewater block in and running, but the temperature differential between water temp and CPU temp seems ungodly high for transferring heat from XP1800>arcticsilver>copper>water..

Why don't you add thermoelectric cooling to your cpu and let the water cool the peltier?

A watercooling system without a peltier is like a car with only 1 gear (slow!).

Those water temps look pretty average/normal for a water system.

How have you mounted the fans against the radiator? You should have spacing of at least 1.5 inches for a 120mm fan (The fan should connect to the rad via a tunnel).

For the water coolant: make sure it contains an effective surfactant to reduce surface tension.

My own computer is a P4 3ghz 800 HT running at 3.5ghz with 900mhz FSB. The speed will be increased soon but the CPU has only just been upgraded from a 2.4ghz chip.

Average CPU temp is: 8 celsius with the rad fans throttles back. With the fans at high-speed then the temp will be closer to 3 or 4 celsius. Highest temp for my CPU is 22 celsius. Average temp for running one of the latest 3d games is 14 celsius.

Like I said.. A watercooling system without a peltier - sucks!

LeadSalad · 03-08-2004, 01:02 AM

Sigh, a peltier is a whole 'nother world of trouble that sometimes just isn't practical for most people. Watercooling, although becoming a little more mainstream, is still not entirely end user friend. Most peltier setups require additional power supplies that can provide the needed Amps, and sometimes voltage. And then you have to rig it up to start at the same time, and shut down at the same time. Not to mention that a peltier is a steady X Watt drain that can add up quickly as it can be the power drain of another system in just itself. I'd rather have a car with one gear than a car with three gears and a clutch that may or may not work.

kronchev · 03-08-2004, 02:31 AM

thats about what I get, but I have terrible airflow. right now with prime95 running and 84 ambient im at 104. however I have a really bad fan on the rad that i KNOW replacing will help my temps out a lot. also it seems to be semi random what my temps are...at 84 ambient full load I was getting 98 before. Then again, ambient refers to the case temp, and I have the rad pulling air specially from outside the case...

feathers · 03-08-2004, 03:24 AM

Leadsalad:

You are correct.. Except that's how it used to be.. I have been supplying peltier systems for several years now and we have it down to a fine art. Your comments were certainly focused on the most important or difficult aspects of peltier cooling.

We use a standard ATX power supply to power both the computer and the TEC! The PSU chosen is an Enermax which has enough current to drive both. In cases where the user wants even more power (for multiple TECs) then we have that covered too! A second ATX PSU can be used to power the TECs and is started automatically with the computer via a special cable which takes it's signal from the molex power lines of the computer. I use this device on my own computer and it's very inexpensive!

It's interesting that you didn't mention condensation.. Even at subzero it's not a problem to insulate effectively with a few layers of Neoprene and Dielectric grease.

AntiBling · 03-19-2004, 12:11 AM

Krazy
Just for the sake of being accurate, the info I gave you before needs a little updating. The reason my CPU temp would change with the case airflow was probably because the CPU block was not seated well. Like it says in the procooling review of the RBX block, it was really hard to get it seated evenly on the CPU. After installing a shim and trying again, I got much lower temps. What Im reporting to you now is from the MB sensors and Asus probe, with the water temp taken with an Enermax fan controller unit. For a water temp of 27.7C, my CPU temp at idle (XP2400 stock speed) is 34C. Quite a bit lower than what you are getting. The case airflow no longer changes the CPU temp. Since your CPU block is reported to be better, there may be room for improvement after all.

The setup is

DD RBX stock nozzle
Maze4 GPU
camaro heatercore with two 172mm fans @1000 RPM
xp2400 athlon/stock speed/voltage
9700pro stock speed/voltage
Danner Mag3

Speeding up the fans doesnt do much for the temps so thats not an issue.

03-01-2004, 08:51 AM	#1
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	Do these WhiteWater temps seem reasonable? I've got my new whitewater block in and running, but the temperature differential between water temp and CPU temp seems ungodly high for transferring heat from XP1800>arcticsilver>copper>water. My water temp, as measured in the reservoir between the heatercore outlet and pump inlet, levels out around 75 to 80 degrees farenheit (24 to 27 celsius). My motherboard CPU socket temperature probe climbs up to 95 or 100 farenheit (35 to 38 celsius) at low CPU usage (web browsing, winamp, idle, etc.). Does this seem like too high of a temperature differential? Or is this about right for the block? i know that the motherboard sensors are far from accurate, but I figure I should at least be able to get an idea of how things run from it. For the record, the radiator intake air is in the low 70s F (low 20s C) and the rad exhaust is a few degrees F higher. __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-01-2004, 09:05 AM	#3
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	no overclock. When I had a Thermaltake 6cu modified with an 80mm fan, I ran between 100 and 120 F all the time. (37 to 49 celsius) __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-01-2004, 10:29 AM	#6
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	Hmm... I flashed to the current BIOS a month ago or so, and my CPU temps dropped 15 or 20 degrees farenheit. I'm using a Danner Mag3, and the only blocks in the system so far are the whitewater on the CPU and a modified Innoavatek graph-o-matic on one of the split outlets of the WW. The pump is moving a respectable amoutn of water when I lift the hose out of the peanut butter jar I'm using for a reservoir. I am suspecting CPU die contact issues now too. Can anyone offer advice on mounting a block like the witewater? I followed the destructions from the box and tightened each nut down about six turns past mating with the spring, compressing the springs a decent amount. It still seems a little spooky and wiggles a bit more than I'd like it to. Is it worth the trouble to omit the springs and just carefully tighten all four nuts to make the block sit more squarely without worrying about sideways forces applie by hoses? Is there a thread about these kinds of mounting issues? __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-01-2004, 02:58 PM	#8
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	Now that I've shut my box down, gone to class for a few hours, and returned, my temps are back down nice and low. The coolant had a chance to cool back down to ambient , but otherwise everything is just as is before, and now my CPU temp is 77 F instead of 100 F. Water temp is reading 76 F according to my respectable quality thermometer in the res. How can it be that my CPU temp is the same as my coolant temp (even if it is measured post-rad) __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-01-2004, 04:17 PM	#10
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	I'll have to try that, but I think I'll wait a short while for a somewhat major revamp I'll be doing, so as not to have to remount it again right away. Where can I find info on reading the temp through the internal CPU diode? I know that it can be done by tapping into a few pins on the socket and reading it with some kind of interpreter, but otherwise I have no clue where to start. Can someone link me to a good overview or tutorial about this? I think it's time to move up from the motherboard's socket temp diode. :P __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-01-2004, 09:02 AM	#2
logosmani Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 47	what were u getting before, and what kinda oc (if any) do u have going? (looks fine to me tho tbh)

03-01-2004, 09:31 AM	#4
Jabo Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 164	Two possible causes. 1. your pump is too weak 2. your block does not make proper contact with your cpu.

03-01-2004, 09:41 AM	#5
logosmani Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 47	thing is Abits temp reporting seems to be a bit of an issue, for example i get a reading of 42deg C @ idle from my IC7-G, whereas i get a reading of 31deg C at the waterblock/cpu interface region.. my board USED to give me a reading comparable to my waterblock/cpu reading but it jumped 10deg or so with a bios update, is it possible that this is the case here? This is with a 2.4c clocked to 3050, running with a water temp of 27deg C (idle) btw

03-01-2004, 01:57 PM	#7
AntiBling Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: orlando FL Posts: 147	One thing you might want to look at is how much airflow is around the CPU socket. My setup in a nutshell is A7V8X-X, XP2400, with an RBX, Mag3 and a 89 Camaro heater core for cooling. My measured water temp with the rad fans @900RPM is 6 degrees F above ambient, 10 at full load. The CPU socket temp that is reported by Asus Probe varies not only with CPU load, but also depending on how high I turn up the case vent fan. With the case fan going slow, the reported CPU temp is 10-15 degrees F higher than if I turn the case fan up all the way, while the water temp remains unchanged. ( And no, I do not have the diode assignment mixed up, its running Probe which came with the Mobo ) As far as I can tell, the socket is heating up from the passive cooled NB just below it. Just something to look at if you havent already.

03-01-2004, 03:25 PM	#9
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	could be inaccurate temp readings. you might want to remove the block and make sure its making good contact with the core. then remount (with fresh AS) and crank down on the springs a bit more than you did befor. just as long as you tighten them evenly, it should be fine.

03-01-2004, 05:30 PM	#11
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Hmmm, the block shouldn't really "wiggle" much at all if tightened properly. I suspect that the springs supplied may be a bit weaker than the manual assumes. Try tightening the block further.

03-02-2004, 06:56 PM	#12
rundymc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 67	a relatively small problem maybe the fact you have a graph-o-matic on the one of the split outlets meaning flow in the block is not even on each set of fins due to the uneven restriction (more on the side which has the grapho on it)

03-02-2004, 07:17 PM	#13
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	Well, the rest of my hose barbs came yesterday, so I fabricated a modified hold-down for the other modified graph-o-matic and took the machine down to install it. Now both outlets of the WW have an identical chipset block on them, and my CPU temp is back to a pretty consistent 75F. I didn't remount the WW, but I did put another turn or two on the nuts to compress the springs a little more as Cathar suggested. I still don't know how much I can trust the socket thermister. Here is the low-down on temps and load right now: CPU temp: 76F (socket mounted sensor read with SpeedFan) rad intake air temp: 75F (indoor/outdoor thermometer's indoor sensor) rad exhaust air temp: 80F (indoor/outdoor thermometer's outdoor probe) rad exhaust water temp: 82F (capillary-style photographics thermometer submerged in res) CPU: Palomino XP1800+ (1533mhz; everything is running at stock speeds) CPU usage: I'd estimate 20-30% average over the last half hour or so (I'm installing software, browsing web, and playing music) CPU TIM: Arctic Silver 3 paste There is also a GF4ti4200 and my Abit NF7-S's nForce2 chipset in the water loop, both using previously described modified Innovatek graph-o-matic blocks. Which temps are most suspect? Probably the CPU termister? Anyone know where can I find info on how to read the internal die sensor on this CPU with the NF7-S? I'm having a rough time finding info on this. __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project)

03-05-2004, 05:38 PM	#15
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Absolute probe readings are basically worthless. Also I doubt you calibrated your coolant probe. For all you know the accuracy of those readings is each +/- 10C.

03-05-2004, 06:09 PM	#16
deltawing11 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austria Posts: 12	You can absolutely not trust MB sensor reading. With an air cooling I was getting 4-5°C difference between CPU temps measured with a ABIT NF7-S V.2.0 temp sensor and a Senfu digital thermometer touching the side of a CPU, with a later always higher. Since I installed a waterblock and unplugged a CPU fan something changed and now CPU sensor temp are averagely 2-3°C higher than measured with a Senfu digital thermometer. Go figure??? My advise to you is to buy a digital thermometer (10$) and to forget about MB sensor readings. Much more reliable and stays same even when you change a BIOS...

03-05-2004, 06:51 PM	#17
feathers Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK Posts: 81	"With an air cooling I was getting 4-5°C difference between CPU temps measured with a ABIT NF7-S V.2.0 temp sensor and a Senfu digital thermometer touching the side of a CPU, " - Were the two temp sensors attached to the same point? Or was one of the sensors an on-board/on-chip sensor? There will always be differences in temp depending on where the measurements are taken from. Even if you have two perfectly calibrated sensors - if they are sensing from slightly different points then they will return different temp readings! There can be 6 celsius or more difference between reported temp and actual temp with an on-chip thermal diode. Results will even be different between bios and windows readings. On-chip thermal sensors are designed to give an approximate reading rather than a high-precision reading.

03-08-2004, 01:02 AM	#19
LeadSalad Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: East Bay, Cali Posts: 10	Sigh, a peltier is a whole 'nother world of trouble that sometimes just isn't practical for most people. Watercooling, although becoming a little more mainstream, is still not entirely end user friend. Most peltier setups require additional power supplies that can provide the needed Amps, and sometimes voltage. And then you have to rig it up to start at the same time, and shut down at the same time. Not to mention that a peltier is a steady X Watt drain that can add up quickly as it can be the power drain of another system in just itself. I'd rather have a car with one gear than a car with three gears and a clutch that may or may not work.

03-08-2004, 02:31 AM	#20
kronchev Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lawrenceville, NJ Posts: 254	thats about what I get, but I have terrible airflow. right now with prime95 running and 84 ambient im at 104. however I have a really bad fan on the rad that i KNOW replacing will help my temps out a lot. also it seems to be semi random what my temps are...at 84 ambient full load I was getting 98 before. Then again, ambient refers to the case temp, and I have the rad pulling air specially from outside the case... __________________ Ghetto riggin'!

03-08-2004, 03:24 AM	#21
feathers Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK Posts: 81	Leadsalad: You are correct.. Except that's how it used to be.. I have been supplying peltier systems for several years now and we have it down to a fine art. Your comments were certainly focused on the most important or difficult aspects of peltier cooling. We use a standard ATX power supply to power both the computer and the TEC! The PSU chosen is an Enermax which has enough current to drive both. In cases where the user wants even more power (for multiple TECs) then we have that covered too! A second ATX PSU can be used to power the TECs and is started automatically with the computer via a special cable which takes it's signal from the molex power lines of the computer. I use this device on my own computer and it's very inexpensive! It's interesting that you didn't mention condensation.. Even at subzero it's not a problem to insulate effectively with a few layers of Neoprene and Dielectric grease.

03-19-2004, 12:11 AM	#22
AntiBling Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: orlando FL Posts: 147	Krazy Just for the sake of being accurate, the info I gave you before needs a little updating. The reason my CPU temp would change with the case airflow was probably because the CPU block was not seated well. Like it says in the procooling review of the RBX block, it was really hard to get it seated evenly on the CPU. After installing a shim and trying again, I got much lower temps. What Im reporting to you now is from the MB sensors and Asus probe, with the water temp taken with an Enermax fan controller unit. For a water temp of 27.7C, my CPU temp at idle (XP2400 stock speed) is 34C. Quite a bit lower than what you are getting. The case airflow no longer changes the CPU temp. Since your CPU block is reported to be better, there may be room for improvement after all. The setup is DD RBX stock nozzle Maze4 GPU camaro heatercore with two 172mm fans @1000 RPM xp2400 athlon/stock speed/voltage 9700pro stock speed/voltage Danner Mag3 Speeding up the fans doesnt do much for the temps so thats not an issue.

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