Big Pump, now wondering 2 heater cores vs 1 big one

[hadrian]

Hey guys, I'm new here. I came by b/c you guys are highly recommended for watercooling stuff.


I had put together a watercooling rig about 2 years ago with a BigMama and a QuietOne (from that scumbag before he closed shop) by Rainbow (the original R175254, before they sold out to Pentair Aquatics and changed the whole line). Anyway, one thing I learned in a hurry was that a 90watt pump creates a lot of heat, and my radiator was not big enough to dissipate heat from the pump itself plus everything else.

I'm thinking of putting a new rig together. Size isn't an issue as it will be run outside of a box. I still have the BigMama as a nice all copper/brass core. The QuietOne still works. I was wondering if I shold go with a large single radiator, like an actual radiator, or running multiple heater cores in parallel.

Ideas?

Specs on the QuietOne were tough to find since Rainbow-Lifeguard sold out to Pentair Aquatics, but I finally found these:

R175254
1/25 HP
19 GPM (Max)
1140 GPH (Max)
3/4 or 1/2 Inlet FPT
3/4 or 1/2 Outlet FPT
115 Volts
0.76 Amps
87 Watts
6.5 lbs

There's a good chart for GPH by head height, so at:
0 ft - 1140 GPH
1 ft - 943 GPH
2 ft - 830 GPH
3 ft - 752 GPH
4 ft - 724 GPH
5 ft - 656 GPH
6 ft - 640 GPH
7 ft - 613 GPH

[Gooserider]

I'd probably go for the car rad, mostly because it will probably be easier to plumb and build a box for. Assuming you had the same fin area, I wouldn't expect a big difference in the cooling ability

Gooserider

[hadrian]

Well, any recommendations on references that indicate whether a radiator is Copper/Brass vs Aluminum? I lost the old reference I had. I've been looking on Ebay, but most of the radiators are aluminum. I need to find out which vehicles are copper before I can start searching for them.

[Groth]

Try your local radiator repair shop. They ought have a decent selection for you to look at. Plus, they can customize your inlet/outlet to the fitting of your choice.

[Blackeagle]

Groth offers good advice, that's the way to go regarding a full radiator solution.

If you still care to look into dual heater cores: Fedco #2-342 / GDI #399090 this is about the largest single pass heater core. A pair of these will offer the lowest resistence you can get for that monster pump. This rad is large enough to take 2 x 120mm fans per side, so it's on the upper end of what most use size wise.

Or for a much larger area core: Fedco #2-192 / GDI #399030 this is the largest heater core ever made so far as I've been able to find. Much larger cooling area than the above core, but will give higher water side flow resistence. I posted this one as I'm not sure how much you need, but this core is huge for most peeps uses. This core can take 4 x 120mm fans per side!

With a pump that large may I suggest you consider creation of a dual loop water rig. By spliting that pumps flow in half with one half going to the CPU block & the second half going to the GPU/NB you'd reduce your system resistence a great deal. Example

Monster pump=>dual parralel 2-342 cores=>
core "A" outlet => CPU block => single shared RES
core "B" outlet to GPU & NB blocks => single shared RES
Single RES =>pump inlet

A dual loop of this sort would have only approx. 30-35% of the resistence/headloss as compared to if you ran it all cores and blocks in series. Depending on the blocks you choose this dual loop might run anywhere from 3.5gpm to 4.5gpm. Sad fact is that pump is just plain driving more flow than even a dual looped water rig can well use.

Best of luck and I hope this helps.

[Gooserider]

As a VERY rough guide to Al vs. Cu/brass rads, look at the age of the vehicle and what the ENGINE is made from. Older vehicles, and ones with cast iron engine blocks will tend to use Cu/brass rads. Newer vehicles, especially the ones with aluminum block engines will use Al rads.

Gooserider

[hadrian]

Blackbeagle, I think I'm gonna go with the duplicate heater core rather than a single large radiator. I already have one large heater (BigMama), so the price would probably end up lower. One big question, even with dual loops, is the positioning. I am gonna update the waterblock (currently have an old Maze2), but either a Whitewater or RBX (not gonna hold my breath for finding or affording the cascade) benefit greatly from improved flow. Pump->Radiator->CPU would give the best temperature difference on the waterblock, but Radiator->Pump->CPU would give the better flow at the CPU level.

Any ideas? Remember this pump does around 1200gph, and creates a lot of heat.

The other big question, is, if I am doing multiple heater cores, how many. Is two total enough, or should I do 3. I am thinking now of making a huge box (big wood box with a hinged top, for the case, ie enough room for multiple heater cores).?

[hadrian]

Has anyone ever found a Fedco 2-192?
I've searched for a while and can't find it..
It cross references to these Heater Cores:
CUC 9030
GDI 399030
FEDCO 2-192
ARS 9030
4 SEASONS 94722
MURRAY 279322
STANT 90300
EVERCO 2364

And I've been able to find that it was the heater core for:
1958-1979 Ford C, CT, BEF, FA5, and 001 with A/C
1958-1967 Ford Tilt Cab with A/C

These are mostly big trucks (although I think that the FA5 was a plane). I can't find these selling at any auto parts store, I think because they don't carry really large truck parts. The Tilt cab was a 600 series truck

Anyway, any ideas how to find one of these?

[redleader]

With a pump that large may I suggest you consider creation of a dual loop water rig. By spliting that pumps flow in half with one half going to the CPU block & the second half going to the GPU/NB you'd reduce your system resistence a great deal. Example

Monster pump=>dual parralel 2-342 cores=>
core "A" outlet => CPU block => single shared RES
core "B" outlet to GPU & NB blocks => single shared RES
Single RES =>pump inlet

A dual loop of this sort would have only approx. 30-35% of the resistence/headloss as compared to if you ran it all cores and blocks in series. Depending on the blocks you choose this dual loop might run anywhere from 3.5gpm to 4.5gpm. Sad fact is that pump is just plain driving more flow than even a dual looped water rig can well use.

Why split it though? Sure it reduces overall pressure drop, but it also decreases the pressure available to cool the block, not to mention flow balanceing issues.

I'm curious why you prefer this. Is pressure so great in both cases the the difference in flow is negligable? I'm afraid that maybe my common sense doesn't apply to pumps that large.

[Gooserider]

BillA's research and testing indicates that the order of components in a loop doesn't make any measurable difference in cooling effectiveness or CPU temps. It is more important to arrange your plumbing in a way that will give you the best flow path (minimize bends and hose length)

If the heater core you are looking for is for large trucks, you might try either a radiator shop or a truck repair place. Truck shops have different part supply chains than standard auto parts stores. Don't be to supprised to get a severe sticker shock however, as truck parts tend to be expensive.

I suspect that your cost will be less with a single large radiator than with multiple heater cores. (especially if you go for 2nd hand) It will also give you the potential advantage of needing just a few large fans instead of a bunch of little ones.

I tend to agree with the idea of splitting the flow, as pushing an excessively fast flow can actually damage your plumbing. You also have a diminishing returns point where your cooling won't improve significantly once the flow gets past 2-3 GPM. Given the stated volume of your pump, you should have no problem getting that level of flow through at least two or three branches. If you were to find any one branch getting excessive flow, it wouldn't be hard to put some sort of restriction in that branch to balance things out.

Gooserider