Water Maintenance!

caxis0 · 05-04-2004, 04:51 AM

I have a few questions about filling and bleeding and refilling.

Given that my radiator is going to be placed in my case like this:

http://www.deckadance.com/curious/pi.../project3.html

Then what would be the best approach to filling everything up with water and getting rid of air? I know some people use resevoirs, others use fill and bleeds, some people use T connects, and others just submerge all components....

I'd go with the submerge all components.... but that brings up another question: How often do you have to empty and refill the system? I plan on using distilled water with water wetter and a subtle blue dye--it won't be that thick dense green antifreeze look, so if it got "gunky" then it would probably show pretty easily. Is there a way to easily empty and refill the system without having to disconnect everything? What can I do now while constructing things to make maintenance easy?

I also read an article on here explaining the importance of an air trap. Given the position of my radiator, I'm not sure what would be the best way to implement this. Maybe a res in the top 5 1/4 bay?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice you can give me

Bruce
BTW: This is my first post here, and this will be my first water cooled rig

krazy · 05-04-2004, 09:41 AM

The most trouble you're going to get from the radiator placement is that it will be difficult to remove the air from the radiator unless you have an uncommonly fast flow rate through the loop.

A reservoir is not needed solely to contain extra water, as the amount of water leaving the loop over time is theoretically negligible in a sealed system. It is really handy to have, however, for catching air. In a completely sealed loop, air bubbles never get a chance to escape from the water. Even if there is a T fitting, the water doesn't slow down as it goes by, so only the huge bubbles are able to escape from the water.

A reservoir that is large enough for the water to slow down to a near standstill and flow slowly through the res or around a corner to get back out is the best way to get air bubbles out of the system.

An air trap theoretically works fine no matter where in the loop it is placed, as air bubbles travelling around the loop go through every part of the system. Some people like to put them up high, and some people have reported increased pump performance by having a reservoir right on the inlet to the pump. For your setup, I think the air trap would be the most helpful in the upper 5.25" bay, making it a little easier for very large air bubbles coming from the radiator to get to the trap (less gravity-fighting required that way).

My radiator is going to be mounted in the PSU hole on the back of a Chieftec full size tower. It's a single-pass rad, so I will be sending coolant in the bottom and out the top. The upper fitting will lead straight across to a reservoir in the uppermost drive bay, and I'm anticipating very good de-airing performance from the setup. Pics of progress are going to be showing up in a worklog thread one of these days...

By the way; I like the edge trim you're using around the fan hole and the rad cutout. What is it or where did you get it?

Edit: forgot to talk about draining/refilling:

I don't have a ton of experience in this department, as my loop is running in a dishpan while I build components into the case I finally got for it, but I have devised a system I plan to use in my case. The lowest point of the system will have a T fitting with the odd connection pointing downwards. I'm going to pipe this through a small valve and out a port cut through the bottom of the case. In theory, draining the system will be as easy as setting the tower over a sink or bucket and opening this valve. Air will be let in to replace the exiting coolant by opening the filler cap on the reservoir up at the very top of the loop.

Refilling will hopefully be as easy as pouring coolant into the reservoir. It will inevitably not want to flow down into the system, so I'll use the drain valve to bleed the air out from beneath the water. Once enough has flowed down to flood the pump impeller housing, the pump will be able to start and de-air the loop under it's own power. I'll just keep topping off the reservoir until all the air has been able to escape.

caxis0 · 05-04-2004, 09:47 PM

Thankyou, I really appreciate the reply!

It's called c-strip fan hole/window moulding, and unfortunately, I've only been able to locate it on FrozenCPU.com and they are awfully proud of everything they sell apparently.

I'm probably either going to use the top 5 1/4 bay for a res or going to make my own fill and bleed kit with quick connects that come out of the top.... ahh... decisions, decisions.

Bruce

killernoodle · 05-04-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caxis0

Thankyou, I really appreciate the reply!

It's called c-strip fan hole/window moulding, and unfortunately, I've only been able to locate it on FrozenCPU.com and they are awfully proud of everything they sell apparently.

I'm probably either going to use the top 5 1/4 bay for a res or going to make my own fill and bleed kit with quick connects that come out of the top.... ahh... decisions, decisions.

Bruce

I have a system with the radiator mounted horizontally, you really dont have to worry about anything.

A simple T- Line will do the trick, but it wouldnt hurt to tip the case a little so the air will go to the barb side of the core. It might take a day or so to get every little air bubble out, but it will run fine forever like that.

Pricey · 05-05-2004, 04:55 AM

I think this site will help you out a bit.

Pricey

caxis0 · 05-05-2004, 09:41 PM

Thanks for the link, I understand what you are saying, however... doesn't the velocity of the water keep air bubbles in the loop? Would something like this be feasible?

Would putting mini reservoirs under the inbound and outbound taps be helpful, combining maybe the best qualities of a res and a fill and bleed kit, or would this damage flow rate too much? Any thoughts?

[edit: Actually, never mind. I can accomplish this with the 3 tap system after all with less complexity]

Bruce

Waterbug · 05-06-2004, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy

Edit: forgot to talk about draining/refilling:

I don't have a ton of experience in this department, as my loop is running in a dishpan while I build components into the case I finally got for it, but I have devised a system I plan to use in my case. The lowest point of the system will have a T fitting with the odd connection pointing downwards. I'm going to pipe this through a small valve and out a port cut through the bottom of the case. In theory, draining the system will be as easy as setting the tower over a sink or bucket and opening this valve. Air will be let in to replace the exiting coolant by opening the filler cap on the reservoir up at the very top of the loop.

Refilling will hopefully be as easy as pouring coolant into the reservoir. It will inevitably not want to flow down into the system, so I'll use the drain valve to bleed the air out from beneath the water. Once enough has flowed down to flood the pump impeller housing, the pump will be able to start and de-air the loop under it's own power. I'll just keep topping off the reservoir until all the air has been able to escape.

Do you have this T-connector before or after the pump?

Varsis · 05-06-2004, 03:48 AM

I also run a top mounted radiator as long as you have a decent 300gph or more pump it'll clean the air out in a day or 2, faster if you feel like picken the tower up and shaken shit around
use a small res or t fitting at the bottom, i've tried T fittings before, and bought a rez for obvious reasons, as it was stated, the T fitting does nothing to slow ater down. and if it isn't mouted at the highest possible point, it really doesn't help much at all.
in our situations the rad would be the highest, so its rather pointless i think, but it will work, barely. when that pump is OFF and the T break isn't capped. your coolant will start to come down the loop and push out of it, if it isn't held above the highest point in the system, the rad for me and you.

use a res if you can, go with a T if you can't. and dont worry about air in the rad to much. long as you use distilled water and water wetter you can wait a good year or more before you change out the watter, it should last a long time before it gets icky. long as your not doing anything bad like running a copper radiator with an aluminum block,
then again they say thats what the water wetter is for, corrosion inhibiter and all
frankly, i'd rather not take that chance with 1500dollars worth of sensitive electronics sitting under what is supposedly my 1337 cooling system.
Anyways, have a good one
My System if you give a rip

05-04-2004, 04:51 AM	#1
caxis0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas, USA Posts: 27	Water Maintenance! (And Res/FillBleed Idea) I have a few questions about filling and bleeding and refilling. Given that my radiator is going to be placed in my case like this: http://www.deckadance.com/curious/pi.../project3.html Then what would be the best approach to filling everything up with water and getting rid of air? I know some people use resevoirs, others use fill and bleeds, some people use T connects, and others just submerge all components.... I'd go with the submerge all components.... but that brings up another question: How often do you have to empty and refill the system? I plan on using distilled water with water wetter and a subtle blue dye--it won't be that thick dense green antifreeze look, so if it got "gunky" then it would probably show pretty easily. Is there a way to easily empty and refill the system without having to disconnect everything? What can I do now while constructing things to make maintenance easy? I also read an article on here explaining the importance of an air trap. Given the position of my radiator, I'm not sure what would be the best way to implement this. Maybe a res in the top 5 1/4 bay? Thanks in advance for any help and advice you can give me Bruce BTW: This is my first post here, and this will be my first water cooled rig Last edited by caxis0; 05-05-2004 at 09:43 PM. Reason: To change topic title

05-04-2004, 09:41 AM	#2
krazy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA Posts: 123	The most trouble you're going to get from the radiator placement is that it will be difficult to remove the air from the radiator unless you have an uncommonly fast flow rate through the loop. A reservoir is not needed solely to contain extra water, as the amount of water leaving the loop over time is theoretically negligible in a sealed system. It is really handy to have, however, for catching air. In a completely sealed loop, air bubbles never get a chance to escape from the water. Even if there is a T fitting, the water doesn't slow down as it goes by, so only the huge bubbles are able to escape from the water. A reservoir that is large enough for the water to slow down to a near standstill and flow slowly through the res or around a corner to get back out is the best way to get air bubbles out of the system. An air trap theoretically works fine no matter where in the loop it is placed, as air bubbles travelling around the loop go through every part of the system. Some people like to put them up high, and some people have reported increased pump performance by having a reservoir right on the inlet to the pump. For your setup, I think the air trap would be the most helpful in the upper 5.25" bay, making it a little easier for very large air bubbles coming from the radiator to get to the trap (less gravity-fighting required that way). My radiator is going to be mounted in the PSU hole on the back of a Chieftec full size tower. It's a single-pass rad, so I will be sending coolant in the bottom and out the top. The upper fitting will lead straight across to a reservoir in the uppermost drive bay, and I'm anticipating very good de-airing performance from the setup. Pics of progress are going to be showing up in a worklog thread one of these days... By the way; I like the edge trim you're using around the fan hole and the rad cutout. What is it or where did you get it? Edit: forgot to talk about draining/refilling: I don't have a ton of experience in this department, as my loop is running in a dishpan while I build components into the case I finally got for it, but I have devised a system I plan to use in my case. The lowest point of the system will have a T fitting with the odd connection pointing downwards. I'm going to pipe this through a small valve and out a port cut through the bottom of the case. In theory, draining the system will be as easy as setting the tower over a sink or bucket and opening this valve. Air will be let in to replace the exiting coolant by opening the filler cap on the reservoir up at the very top of the loop. Refilling will hopefully be as easy as pouring coolant into the reservoir. It will inevitably not want to flow down into the system, so I'll use the drain valve to bleed the air out from beneath the water. Once enough has flowed down to flood the pump impeller housing, the pump will be able to start and de-air the loop under it's own power. I'll just keep topping off the reservoir until all the air has been able to escape. __________________ Abit NF7-S ... xp1800+ ... Abit GF4ti4200 ... Maxtor 120gb SATA150 Currently gathering parts to water cool everything! (read about the project) Last edited by krazy; 05-04-2004 at 10:33 AM.

05-05-2004, 09:41 PM	#6
caxis0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas, USA Posts: 27	Thanks for the link, I understand what you are saying, however... doesn't the velocity of the water keep air bubbles in the loop? Would something like this be feasible? Would putting mini reservoirs under the inbound and outbound taps be helpful, combining maybe the best qualities of a res and a fill and bleed kit, or would this damage flow rate too much? Any thoughts? [edit: Actually, never mind. I can accomplish this with the 3 tap system after all with less complexity] Bruce Last edited by caxis0; 05-06-2004 at 12:21 AM. Reason: wanted to edit!

05-06-2004, 03:48 AM	#8
Varsis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: maui, hawaii Posts: 52	I also run a top mounted radiator as long as you have a decent 300gph or more pump it'll clean the air out in a day or 2, faster if you feel like picken the tower up and shaken shit around use a small res or t fitting at the bottom, i've tried T fittings before, and bought a rez for obvious reasons, as it was stated, the T fitting does nothing to slow ater down. and if it isn't mouted at the highest possible point, it really doesn't help much at all. in our situations the rad would be the highest, so its rather pointless i think, but it will work, barely. when that pump is OFF and the T break isn't capped. your coolant will start to come down the loop and push out of it, if it isn't held above the highest point in the system, the rad for me and you. use a res if you can, go with a T if you can't. and dont worry about air in the rad to much. long as you use distilled water and water wetter you can wait a good year or more before you change out the watter, it should last a long time before it gets icky. long as your not doing anything bad like running a copper radiator with an aluminum block, then again they say thats what the water wetter is for, corrosion inhibiter and all frankly, i'd rather not take that chance with 1500dollars worth of sensitive electronics sitting under what is supposedly my 1337 cooling system. Anyways, have a good one My System if you give a rip __________________ Cool with the best or burn like the rest.

05-04-2004, 09:47 PM	#3
caxis0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas, USA Posts: 27	Thankyou, I really appreciate the reply! It's called c-strip fan hole/window moulding, and unfortunately, I've only been able to locate it on FrozenCPU.com and they are awfully proud of everything they sell apparently. I'm probably either going to use the top 5 1/4 bay for a res or going to make my own fill and bleed kit with quick connects that come out of the top.... ahh... decisions, decisions. Bruce

05-05-2004, 04:55 AM	#5
Pricey Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 12	I think this site will help you out a bit. Pricey

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