Sick Algae Buildup

[Althornin]

Originally posted by Gooserider
I may have just answered my own question on the use of LED's for killing stuff... It doesn't appear to be feasible.

I just looked up the other thread where the UV stuff is discussed, and found that the desired wavelength for the killer rays is "UV-C",with a wavelength of ~250 - 300 nm.

I got started on this idea by a LED being offered in the latest Electronic Goldmine flyer which had all sorts of warnings about 'produces intense UV light, protect eyes and skin when using' and thought it was a useful looking item. Reviewing the specs for it however, I found that it only puts out in the 400-405nm range.

Since I was on the idea however, I went to the Globalspec website, which supposedly allows one to search by specs on multiple manufacturers catalogs. If I specified "UV LED", I got only units running in the 400+nm range, if I specified 250-300nm peak wavelength, I got only 'possible matches' that didn't spec a peak wavelength, but were only visible light LED's from other descriptions (Most annoying - I hate bogus matches...)

Thus it appears that my idea would not work due to the simple fact that nobody appears to make LED's the right wavelength.

The other objection mentioned was the question of light intensity put out by these LED's. I agree they wouldn't be as intense as a bulb, but given the incredible level of overkill even a 4W bulb seemed to give in a WC environment, I suspect that had the right LED's existed they would have been OK if I used several of them.

Gooserider

so, basically, as i said.

[dr.chaos]

Copper sulphate is quite easy to find and is a really good biocide, but it reacts with brass and steel, so you need a pump with a ceramic shaft as the Askoll Aquapump 2 or 3 (I think they are out of production now, but you can ask for a marine aquarium's pump).

What about some kind of antibiotic like Erythromycin?

[funbun]

You can use good old fashioned hydrogen peroxide. It's probably not as good an anti bacterial agent a the stuff you can get from a pet store that clean fish tanks though.

[funbun]

What about Boric Acid? It's been use for hundreds of years as an anticeptic. It also does a great job of killing roaches. It comes in a powder that you get from a drug store. You mix it with water and presto: dead algea. It's also been used for mouthwash, eye drops, skin lotion, and cosmetics.

[pauldenton]

Originally Posted by dr.chaos

Copper sulphate is quite easy to find and is a really good biocide, but it reacts with brass and steel,

do you mean with brass+steel, or with brass and also with steel?

i quite fancied using this (and even bought some...) but don't want to use it with my silverprop fusion if it'll corrode (let alone the number of cores that are part brass these days...)

can you elaborate?

[dr.chaos]

Originally Posted by pauldenton

do you mean with brass+steel, or with brass and also with steel?

i quite fancied using this (and even bought some...) but don't want to use it with my silverprop fusion if it'll corrode (let alone the number of cores that are part brass these days...)

can you elaborate?

I mean it will surely corrode most types of steel and I'm 90% sure it will corrode brass too. Unfortunately for you it doesn't have to be brass and steel to get corrosion, but brass or steel

If you don't have a pump with a ceramic shaft you should forget about copper sulphate.

Ah BTW, if you have copper and brass in the same loop brass will corrode because of galvanic corrosion. It won't be as destructive as copper and aluminum but in the long run you will se the effects. Do a search in these forums I remember some pics of corroded brass parts.

funbun I've tried to clean copper oxidation with hydrogen peroxide with bad result: the green copper oxide turned into an almost black stain that could be removed only with sand paper!

As per boric acid I wouldn't use it either. I may be wrong but I think it will have some kind of bad reaction with copper.

[Demonfire]

Originally Posted by dr.chaos

I mean it will surely corrode most types of steel and I'm 90% sure it will corrode brass too. Unfortunately for you it doesn't have to be brass and steel to get corrosion, but brass or steel

If you don't have a pump with a ceramic shaft you should forget about copper sulphate.

Ah BTW, if you have copper and brass in the same loop brass will corrode because of galvanic corrosion. It won't be as destructive as copper and aluminum but in the long run you will se the effects. Do a search in these forums I remember some pics of corroded brass parts.

funbun I've tried to clean copper oxidation with hydrogen peroxide with bad result: the green copper oxide turned into an almost black stain that could be removed only with sand paper!

As per boric acid I wouldn't use it either. I may be wrong but I think it will have some kind of bad reaction with copper.

Would you happen to know if the Danner mag series of pumps uses a ceramic shaft.

If so, since Ill only be using copper and the pump is ceramic, copper sulfate might work well :shrug:

[pauldenton]

Originally Posted by dr.chaos

I mean it will surely corrode most types of steel and I'm 90% sure it will corrode brass too. Unfortunately for you it doesn't have to be brass and steel to get corrosion, but brass or steel

If you don't have a pump with a ceramic shaft you should forget about copper sulphate.

Ah BTW, if you have copper and brass in the same loop brass will corrode because of galvanic corrosion. It won't be as destructive as copper and aluminum but in the long run you will se the effects. Do a search in these forums I remember some pics of corroded brass parts.

well my iwakis have ceramic shafts i believe so they'd be OK ....

hmm - i guess the fusion would always be a problem then (copper base and brass top... )

[Gooserider]

There has been much discussion of chemical biocides on this and other boards, including sulfates, boric acid, hydrogen peroxide, and others. ALL have nasty properties that make them undesireable in a loop, including human toxicity, nasty reactions with the metals in the loop or low effectiveness. (I forget the details, but I'm sure a search would find most of them.

If sanitizing a loop were an easy thing, we'd all be using these chemicals, and this sort of endless discussion wouldn't be happening

As far as the difference between Cu and Brass is concerned, there is relatively little problem. AFAIK, ALL modern cores (and most older ones) use a mix of Cu and Brass (plus solder) because of the difficulty of making radiator tanks out of pure copper. The alloys involved however are such that corrosion is not a problem between them, and anything that will attack one will also attack the other - bear in mind that brass is mostly copper.

Gooserider

[HAL-9000]

I have been fortunate in the extreme that I do not have this build-up problem that haunts so many. I use water that was not even bought, but generated through electrolysis at the UC-SD, its a long story how I wound up with it, but I have treated my two gallon supply as if it was as expensive as deuterated water. What is not used now, (about 1/2 a gallon) sits in a sealed Pyrex container as a piece of ice in my freezer for storage. Maybe that has helped.

But unregistered's post about 168 proc server setups got me thinking about UV as fire-up and forget solution. UV kills the micro critters, and is used in the food industry a lot to sanitize things. If a UV exposure contraption could be introduced in the loop, it would kill virtually all the micro-organisms that create these problems as the water flowed through it. UV doesn't travel very far through water though, so in the UV sanitizer it would have to be misted, or something like that so the UV could get at it. Wouldn't be practical obviously in a DIY home rig, but would probably be just a parisitic cost in a 168 proc cooler system (thats no longer a "rig"...thats a "system!"). Just an idea.

[Butcher]

The difference in electrical potential between copper and brass is not high enough to show corrosion within the lifetime of most components is use in a water cooling system. In particular if you're running antifreeze or some other corrosion inhibitor I doubt you'll ever see any issues.

[dr.chaos]

Originally Posted by HAL-9000

I have been fortunate in the extreme that I do not have this build-up problem that haunts so many. I use water that was not even bought, but generated through electrolysis at the UC-SD, its a long story how I wound up with it, but I have treated my two gallon supply as if it was as expensive as deuterated water. What is not used now, (about 1/2 a gallon) sits in a sealed Pyrex container as a piece of ice in my freezer for storage. Maybe that has helped.

But unregistered's post about 168 proc server setups got me thinking about UV as fire-up and forget solution. UV kills the micro critters, and is used in the food industry a lot to sanitize things. If a UV exposure contraption could be introduced in the loop, it would kill virtually all the micro-organisms that create these problems as the water flowed through it. UV doesn't travel very far through water though, so in the UV sanitizer it would have to be misted, or something like that so the UV could get at it. Wouldn't be practical obviously in a DIY home rig, but would probably be just a parisitic cost in a 168 proc cooler system (thats no longer a "rig"...thats a "system!"). Just an idea.

Well UV lamps for aquariums are really expensive, you need to change the quartz tube and the light bulb (or tube) every year or two and they do add heat, so I wouldn't take them as a solution.

[samualt]

Originally Posted by airspirit

Okay, I talked to a hot tub specialist and I'm going to be picking up some sanitizer solution tonight. It is supposed to kill EVERYTHING ... in fact, it is similar to what surgeons scrub with before operating.

Do you have a name or manufacturer for the sanitizer solution? I bought some of that Algae Destroyer at Walmart because it was fast and cheap. But I'd like to know more about the hot-tub sanitizer. All I can find is the Bromine type stuff. Thanks!

[Gulp35]

I put Pinesol in my system witha danner 3 and within 48 hours the inlet on my pump broke. Not sure if it is the pinsol's fault but it seems to be an odd conicidence.

[bigben2k]

I can't fathom how Pinesol would do that.

[Dave]

Don't know if this will help you clean out your system or not, but at AVT they just use distilled water and methanol in there industrial systems.

I recently had to service units in the middle east running 3+ years and seen no bio type build up what so ever.

[Butcher]

Methanol is a good biocide if used in sufficient quantities... unfortunately humans are one of the biological organisms it kills.

[MaxxxRacer]

As per removing garbage form the system, I have found nothing other than good ole' scrubbing that will get rid of it.

I tired
409
cascade
bleach
tide
comet (nasty stuff)


and none of them worked.. the only other one to go with its EZ off.. but EZ off wil eat right through acrylic and a good portion of materials that exist in the world including plastic and annodization.

[Dave]

I don't understand what you are suggesting Butcher as I have never heard of methonal being a problem to work with.

I mean the chemical is everywhere if there is an exposure issue it should be known.

You can buy gallons of it at any local hardware store, it is used as a camp cooking fuel, RV anti freeze, windshield washer fluid and so on.

It is also a fuel for your car, even more so if you have a drag racer

[MaxxxRacer]

breate the fuems when a top fueler is in the pits and you will know what butcher is talking a bout.......

[Butcher]

Methanol is toxic to humans and can be absorbed through the skin as well as inhaled. Generally you use it in well ventilated environments so it's not a big deal. As for it being well known - google it, there's plenty of info on methanol poisoning about.

[CoolROD]

parisitic cost in a 168 proc cooler system?

I can think of no better application for a UV sterilizer than a large (168 processor) W/C system. The comparative bulk of the device becomes small, the heat input becomes negligible, the potential benefit is escallated WRT time saved cleaning such a massive system, and the relative cost even becomes more practical. As far as lifespan of the bulb -I only turn mine on occasionally and then leave it on for a few days. I did run it constantly for the first few weeks.

Of course I am trying to justify mine (UV Clarifier) for use with a single PC...I originally desired a set up and forget system, but mine has spent more time "in-Progress" than "in-Operation"

[Dave]

Thank you for the information Butcher.

I was just over at AVT asking Dan about it. He indicates we only use a 10% solution and I can sue him after I stop using windshield washer fluid

Still good to know you should be careful around undiluted liquid.

Dave

[Butcher]

Like many solvents, as long as you're careful it's fine, but it pays to know what to watch out for.

[Think]

Originally Posted by airspirit

As you can see, the tubing is now crystal clear. The solution to this quite simply was to run a high concentration of cleansers through it.

After much deliberation, I went with the following mixture after draining my system:

50% tap water
40% Pine-Sol
10% Lysol

The reason that I did it this way was twofold. While Lysol mixes readily with water, the Pine-Sol doesn't. Further, I figured that since they both are antibacterial and they both cut grime in different ways, it would be better to run them together to complement each other.

What I discovered was that after about two minutes the coolant went cloudy white. When watching the biotic colonies you could see them MELTING. It was awesome. After two hours, 95% of the gunk was washed off the walls and held in suspension in the coolant. At that point, I worked the hose by kinking it near each remaining patch so the water would scour it off. In the end there is barely any trace of infestation left in my system, and due to the dual cleansers I can be assured that it is dead.

Not being the type to trust, though, I have drained and refilled my system with water, aquarium algae killer, and sanitizer. If this doesn't do the trick, nothing will. So far the water has remained clear.

For all of you that didn't believe that your cooling system could be scoured without mechanical means: YOU WERE WRONG. All it takes is a strong enough witches brew and you can dissolve anything. I encourage you to give this a whirl and see how it works for YOU if you have this problem. I'll prolly check and see if I can write a sticky on this, because this is something that can help quite a few of us.

Tomorrow, I'm going to redrain and fill with distilled/hyperlube/glycol/sanitizer. That should keep me clear and beastie free from here on out.

Nice work. I guess the opaque look of the tubing can't be helped. Just curios though, ever thought of using Zerex Valvoling super coolant, with some anti aglae agent from your local pet store with distilled water?. Not sure on the ratio but mabye 10% Zerex, few drops of anti algae every month or so and the remaining distilled water?