NeXXoS HP Pro just landed in my lap - Page 2

pHaestus · 07-13-2004, 06:07 PM

You bought the wb with your own money? lol

AngryAlpaca · 07-13-2004, 06:07 PM

You didn't make any definitive statements whatsoever...

Quote:

The block's base looks like it's been machined flat with a fly-cutter, and then electroplated with copper for a nice shiny finish, mostly covering the fly-cut machine marks, but still leaving that tell-tale ripple effect that fly-cut machining has.

In short - a very cheap method to achieve a nice "mirror" finish - but not exactly flat.

I'm sure that they'll be happy about your posting of this. Aren't these comments from Stew Forster not from Little River, anyway?

King regards, Cathar

pauldenton · 07-13-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkoure

As topo - cool!
I had it almost exactly backwards (thought there was a problem in the upper right corner, but away from die contact area, so no big deal).
Time for me to go re-look at the images you have on thermal-management-testing.com (thanks again for those, BTW)
Bob

Oh - on the off chance your other readers actually aren't lots more astute than me and if you ever get the time/energy/inclination to re-edit any of those reviews, you might want to add "read as topo" as an image footnote or tooltip (don't know if tooltips work cross-browser).

read as topo ?? - can you translate please :shrug:

BillA · 07-13-2004, 06:23 PM

I believe that "looks like" is the operative phrase, an opinion - not a statement of fact
"malicious" requires proof of intent to damage, not the case here
"authorized" ???, free speech here - pound salt in your flat hat
"comparative advertising" ?, eh ? a specific component was being described
"Statements about other firms products, which do not correspond to facts . . . . . are punishable.", no problem, but Cathar was simply descriptive so does not apply
"Statements about other firms products, . . . . . which affect the business are punishable." wrong, only if false or malicious

you know what ?
I think the company is goading you to obtain additional advertising, because that sure is what's coming now

yes, photos
who knows, I may even render a CRT analysis

firtol88 · 07-13-2004, 06:42 PM

Looks like Alphacool Ltd. has just found the best way they could to keep me from ever giving them a single penny.

Guess Alphacool Ltd. decided they needed a little free publicity.

Cathar · 07-13-2004, 06:44 PM

Okay, here are the base pictures. First is a flash-mode picture. Second is a macro-mode with no-flash. Third is a distance zoom-in mode with no flash.

JayDee116, in your professional opinion as a machinists, would you agree that my assessment/opinion of how the base-plate was machined was reasonable?

Bill, I would so have loved for you to put this one under your chromatic flats.

firtol88 · 07-13-2004, 06:57 PM

The scarriest part to me is the initial response, not the usual oops you must have gotten a bad block, this may just be the norm for their equipment.

BillA · 07-13-2004, 06:58 PM

wow
those fellows have no brains,
NEVER pick a fight you cannot win

hey, try this
Swiftech would refinish any wb having such a surface proir to shipment.
and this morning I ordered the relapping of 300 wbs for EXACTLY this reason, visible fly cutting tool marks ($1000 loss !)

it will be interesting to find out what this co's bp inspection stds are

pHaestus · 07-13-2004, 07:12 PM

Jesus Bill you must be shooting for a record number of lawsuits! Did L3D's legal counsel not teach you some manners? I get paid in CAD so I can't afford to say anything about a company that traffics in Euros...

AngryAlpaca · 07-13-2004, 07:13 PM

That's a horrible job of lapping. Ok, so here's the thing, the block's base looks like it's been machined flat with a fly-cutter, and then electroplated with copper for a nice shiny finish, mostly covering the fly-cut machine marks, but still leaving that tell-tale ripple effect that fly-cut machining has. In short that would be a very cheap method to achieve a nice "mirror" finish - but not exactly flat. Independent consumer here. I've got a problem and you can't silence me with lawsuits! (In fact, I don't think you can find me...)

Cathar · 07-13-2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

wow
those fellows have no brains,
NEVER pick a fight you cannot win

Yes, by threatening me with legal action, I am then forced to back up my statements with incontrovertible visual evidence.

The pictures do not lie. I was originally not going to publish any pictures of the base-plate out of respect for Alphacool because I felt that could be seen as being aggressive.

However, since they are the aggressors, I am allowed to respond, and I really do think that the pictures speak for themselves.

I think Alphacool should've originally been thankful that all I posted was my personal opinion, rather than forcing my hand to post actual pictures of what I was talking about.

quicksilverXP · 07-13-2004, 07:23 PM

That's odd. Mine looks nothing that and is completely flat.... similar to the SF from PolarFlo. I'm sure of it because I too took macro pictures from the same angles and it's perfectly flat. Perhaps it indeed was one bad block or the original user somehoe tampered with it ( I doubt it). Maybe their just afraid of the mighty Cathar critiquing it, I know I would be.

Cathar · 07-13-2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quicksilverXP

That's odd. Mine looks nothing that and is completely flat.... similar to the SF from PolarFlo. I'm sure of it because I too took macro pictures from the same angles and it's perfectly flat. Perhaps it indeed was one bad block or the original user somehoe tampered with it ( I doubt it). Maybe their just afraid of the mighty Cathar critiquing it, I know I would be.

Picture taken from kaltmacher.de. You can see the same rippling distortion that I had in the picture (very noticable at the edges of the camera, and the hair of the photographer).

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I was told that this block was an HP Pro, but it is really just a plain HP after doing some more research. I have edited all my posts to reflect that this is the regular HP block that I have here.

It may be that with the Pro version of the block that this issue is fixed? :shrug:

I personally don't wish to comment too much further, lest people accidentally mistake what is clearly opined conjecture for statements of fact.

Tempus · 07-13-2004, 07:48 PM

Pics look pretty definative.

Is there any other reasonable way that ripple can occur? Thermal stress? Just plain ole bad (layered) electroplating? anything?

jaydee · 07-13-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

JayDee116, in your professional opinion as a machinists, would you agree that my assessment/opinion of how the base-plate was machined was reasonable?

I would say you were very generous in your comments. Not sure if their fly cutter was broken, dull or off balanced (or all the above) but my POS Sherline mill can make a base smoother and flatter than that with a 3/8" endmill. :shrug: Ugly and disappointing being their main thing is supposed to be quality.

EDIT: Well my comments still stand on this version of the block...

BillA · 07-13-2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldenton

read as topo ?? - can you translate please :shrug:

topo is slang for topographical map, the contour lines have the same basis (height) as the optical interference lines

it is sometimes tricky to determine high from low

pHaestus · 07-13-2004, 08:25 PM

A bad situation really. AlphaCool could have just offered to send me a wb or two for testing direct from them if they are reading the forums so closely. No need to threaten legal action and stir up bad feelings. I guess if they have no intention of entering the US market though that perhaps they'd get more mileage out of damaging your rep than they would from a thorough review from me.

jaydee · 07-13-2004, 08:34 PM

Their to good to send their stuff here? or are they afraid of better testing? Water block racism maybe?

I would suggest they don't care about the US market but then they wouldn't be reading this thread...

nigelyuen · 07-13-2004, 08:41 PM

my is totally flat like a mirror
just like this one
maybe you got a bad block there

edit: this one is mine, dont think they bother lapping

Cathar · 07-13-2004, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelyuen

my is totally flat like a mirror
just like this one
maybe you got a bad block there

Who wants to tell him?

There's shiny with rippling distortion, like the picture you showed, and then there's shiny and flat.

Tell me if you can't pick the clear difference between the picture you just showed, and the following:

You can't even make out the large font writing on the camera clearly. In my picture you can still make out small font writing through 2 reflections.

Still, I couldn't say that they were really flat, but they are not visually distorting anywhere near as bad as your picture is displaying.

BillA · 07-13-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

A bad situation really. AlphaCool could have just offered to send me a wb or two for testing direct from them if they are reading the forums so closely. No need to threaten legal action and stir up bad feelings. I guess if they have no intention of entering the US market though that perhaps they'd get more mileage out of damaging your rep than they would from a thorough review from me.

but they confused the tail with the dog,
forgot that dogs run in packs,
and most importantly "If you can't bite, don't growl."

they are toothless, it is a bad finish

I will

nigelyuen
'flat' means nothing at all without some numerical definition
mirrors are not flat, suggest you say reflective instead of flat
I agree your wb's bp is reflective, how flat it may be is unknown until it is measured

AngryAlpaca · 07-13-2004, 08:52 PM

Tell him what? That the camera in the first one curves and that the second one is obviously lapped?

Cathar · 07-13-2004, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca

Tell him what? That the camera in the first one curves and that the second one is obviously lapped?

Read my edit above.

AngryAlpaca · 07-13-2004, 08:58 PM

Yeah I saw that after I posted.

nigelyuen · 07-13-2004, 09:33 PM

the second pic is 1ahv2
the first one is alpahcool
1ahv2 didnt lap their block at all, iam thinking of doing it myself

cathar: for a moment i thought you put 2 mirrors there, but i looked again and its a waterblock

07-13-2004, 06:07 PM	#26
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	You bought the wb with your own money? lol __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

07-13-2004, 06:42 PM	#30
firtol88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: BRLA Posts: 151	Looks like Alphacool Ltd. has just found the best way they could to keep me from ever giving them a single penny. Guess Alphacool Ltd. decided they needed a little free publicity. __________________ - - In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper

07-13-2004, 06:57 PM	#32
firtol88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: BRLA Posts: 151	The scarriest part to me is the initial response, not the usual oops you must have gotten a bad block, this may just be the norm for their equipment. __________________ - - In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper

07-13-2004, 07:12 PM	#34
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Jesus Bill you must be shooting for a record number of lawsuits! Did L3D's legal counsel not teach you some manners? I get paid in CAD so I can't afford to say anything about a company that traffics in Euros... __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

07-13-2004, 07:48 PM	#39
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	Pics look pretty definative. Is there any other reasonable way that ripple can occur? Thermal stress? Just plain ole bad (layered) electroplating? anything? __________________ Thou art God.

07-13-2004, 06:23 PM	#29
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	I believe that "looks like" is the operative phrase, an opinion - not a statement of fact "malicious" requires proof of intent to damage, not the case here "authorized" ???, free speech here - pound salt in your flat hat "comparative advertising" ?, eh ? a specific component was being described "Statements about other firms products, which do not correspond to facts . . . . . are punishable.", no problem, but Cathar was simply descriptive so does not apply "Statements about other firms products, . . . . . which affect the business are punishable." wrong, only if false or malicious you know what ? I think the company is goading you to obtain additional advertising, because that sure is what's coming now yes, photos who knows, I may even render a CRT analysis

07-13-2004, 06:44 PM	#31
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Okay, here are the base pictures. First is a flash-mode picture. Second is a macro-mode with no-flash. Third is a distance zoom-in mode with no flash. JayDee116, in your professional opinion as a machinists, would you agree that my assessment/opinion of how the base-plate was machined was reasonable? Bill, I would so have loved for you to put this one under your chromatic flats.

07-13-2004, 06:58 PM	#33
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	wow those fellows have no brains, NEVER pick a fight you cannot win hey, try this Swiftech would refinish any wb having such a surface proir to shipment. and this morning I ordered the relapping of 300 wbs for EXACTLY this reason, visible fly cutting tool marks ($1000 loss !) it will be interesting to find out what this co's bp inspection stds are

07-13-2004, 07:13 PM	#35
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	That's a horrible job of lapping. Ok, so here's the thing, the block's base looks like it's been machined flat with a fly-cutter, and then electroplated with copper for a nice shiny finish, mostly covering the fly-cut machine marks, but still leaving that tell-tale ripple effect that fly-cut machining has. In short that would be a very cheap method to achieve a nice "mirror" finish - but not exactly flat. Independent consumer here. I've got a problem and you can't silence me with lawsuits! (In fact, I don't think you can find me...)

07-13-2004, 07:23 PM	#37
quicksilverXP Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Irvine Posts: 58	That's odd. Mine looks nothing that and is completely flat.... similar to the SF from PolarFlo. I'm sure of it because I too took macro pictures from the same angles and it's perfectly flat. Perhaps it indeed was one bad block or the original user somehoe tampered with it ( I doubt it). Maybe their just afraid of the mighty Cathar critiquing it, I know I would be.

07-13-2004, 08:25 PM	#42
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	A bad situation really. AlphaCool could have just offered to send me a wb or two for testing direct from them if they are reading the forums so closely. No need to threaten legal action and stir up bad feelings. I guess if they have no intention of entering the US market though that perhaps they'd get more mileage out of damaging your rep than they would from a thorough review from me. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

07-13-2004, 08:34 PM	#43
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Their to good to send their stuff here? or are they afraid of better testing? Water block racism maybe? I would suggest they don't care about the US market but then they wouldn't be reading this thread...

07-13-2004, 08:41 PM	#44
nigelyuen Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: HONG KONG Posts: 56	my is totally flat like a mirror just like this one maybe you got a bad block there edit: this one is mine, dont think they bother lapping __________________ http://ny.no-ip.com/wtbanner.png Last edited by nigelyuen; 07-13-2004 at 08:47 PM.

07-13-2004, 08:52 PM	#47
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Tell him what? That the camera in the first one curves and that the second one is obviously lapped?

07-13-2004, 08:58 PM	#49
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Yeah I saw that after I posted.

07-13-2004, 09:33 PM	#50
nigelyuen Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: HONG KONG Posts: 56	the second pic is 1ahv2 the first one is alpahcool 1ahv2 didnt lap their block at all, iam thinking of doing it myself cathar: for a moment i thought you put 2 mirrors there, but i looked again and its a waterblock __________________ http://ny.no-ip.com/wtbanner.png

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