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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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11-13-2004, 02:35 PM | #76 | |
Put up or Shut Up
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11-13-2004, 03:01 PM | #77 | |
c00ling p00n
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*Edit* I see Bill has beat me to it, I was so busy wasting my time reading 'other' things lol.
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*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* |
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11-13-2004, 03:15 PM | #78 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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you mean porn, right?
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11-13-2004, 03:21 PM | #79 | |
Put up or Shut Up
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11-13-2004, 03:26 PM | #80 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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what else necessitates water cooling ?
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11-13-2004, 03:28 PM | #81 |
Cooling Savant
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Why do you make me picture such things Bill
** Etacovda imagines swiftech loop with porn bass
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Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights. |
11-13-2004, 03:30 PM | #82 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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er, that would be the large mouth bass ?
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11-13-2004, 03:32 PM | #83 |
Cooling Savant
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/retreats back to garage to weld on a new cross member onto car for warrant of fitness
I know when im beat I'd have to say though, that this latest bout of testing has become extremely interesting - great to see some pump + block numbers too.
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Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights. |
11-13-2004, 03:52 PM | #84 | |
c00ling p00n
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__________________
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* |
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11-13-2004, 07:50 PM | #85 |
Thermophile
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Cathar, thanks for the fine graphing work.
I've gotta save those graphs until such time as you're done tweaking your program. Nice work. |
11-14-2004, 08:53 AM | #86 |
Cooling Savant
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Ok, this is a continuation of Cathars' C/W vs Hydraulic Power graph idea, and some of the discussion above. (not porn related though )
I have decided to integrate the dT from the HE120.2 rad into my waterblock dT graphs for the Nexxos XP and MCW6000, so that, hopefully, the result is a graph of CPU-ambient dT vs water flow rate. *Cringe* I used this rad mainly because Cathars' PQ curves for the Nexxos and MCW6000 already include the rads flow resistance (as well as 2m of 1/2" tubing). The air flow rate corresponds roughly to 2 Papst 4312L @ 12v. Power into the waterblock is 71W as per PHs' testbed, and this power is assumed to be fully dissipated by the rad. Note that I have not included pump heat... will have to deal with that issue another day Also please consider this as strictly experimental edit: pH, where is the interactive system graphing tool? Last edited by lolito_fr; 11-14-2004 at 11:43 AM. |
11-14-2004, 09:48 AM | #87 | |
Cooling Savant
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walleye here please |
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11-14-2004, 10:03 AM | #88 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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lolito_fr:
Now THAT'S interesting. Would it be possible to put a few points on the curves for where systems with different common pumps would intersect? |
11-14-2004, 11:52 AM | #89 |
Cooling Savant
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Its DAMNED interesting!
I have edited my above post to add a bar chart giving hydraulic power for commun pumps in these two systems. I was too lazy to add all the Iwaki pumps, so yeah there is a giant leap between the MCP650 and 30RZ!! Surprisingly, there is very little difference between the pumps useful output in these 2 loops, hence the pump heat factor would probably make very little difference to the relative performance of these two loops... |
11-14-2004, 12:05 PM | #90 |
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lolito_fr:
I quoted your post in this thread, which I also stickied. I was thinking it'd be better to concentrate this hydraulic power graphing work in that one thread and try to keep all the thoughts in one place. It's very encouraging though; I think it is perhaps the easiest way to graphically show relative wb performance in real loops to end users. |
11-14-2004, 12:17 PM | #91 |
Cooling Savant
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pH, I think what the average Joe wants to see is something like this:
needs a disclaimer though (in this case at least ) edit: have replaced graph with new one factoring in pump heat as per Cathars data Last edited by lolito_fr; 11-14-2004 at 02:15 PM. |
11-14-2004, 12:24 PM | #92 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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Just what you'd expect from a wb that "has optimal performance at low flow" vs. an "American block aka high flow" right? lol
Yes that's what people want. It's great to see so many of you guys able to take data I generate and turn it into something USEFUL. |
11-14-2004, 02:54 PM | #93 |
Cooling Neophyte
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OK, I'll ask the question for all of us good with a wrench, but not with a calculator. What am I seeing in the graph above?
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11-14-2004, 03:06 PM | #94 |
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Look at lolito's last graph. What he's done is combined
1) my test results for the waterblock (the difference between CPU temperature and water temperature going into the block as a funciton of flow rate) 2) His test results for a thermochill 120.2 radiator (difference between water temperature and air temperature as a function of flow) 3) Cathar's flow rate tests (actual flow rate through the waterblock + thermochill 120.2 + hose using different pumps) 4) the manufacturer's performance curvs for different pumps (pressure vs flow). The final result is that he's able to predict the difference between CPU temp and room air temp using (a) a thermochill 120.2 and the stated Papst fans (b) a loop made with 2 meters of 1/2" tubing, (c) either a MCW6000A or a NexXxos XP waterblock for a variety of pumps (the Eheim 1046, 1048, 1250, MCP600, and MCP 650). Look at the pump that generates the least power (1046) and you can see that the MCW6000-A performs slightly better than the NexXxos XP. Look at the pumps with higher max flow rates and pressure capacities (and therefore a larger hydraulic power) and you can see that the NexXxos XP pulls substantially ahead. What's going on is they are taking my rather artificial testing and converting it to something useful for "real world" component recommendations. |
11-14-2004, 04:00 PM | #95 |
Cooling Neophyte
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I'm really suprised how well the NexXxos performs in a high flow system. Very impressive. It seems like too much performance is lost using 8mm, 10mm low flow systems.
pH, did you decide not to explain hydraulic power in depth? |
11-14-2004, 04:07 PM | #96 | |
Thermophile
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11-14-2004, 04:08 PM | #97 | |
Cooling Savant
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11-14-2004, 04:13 PM | #98 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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For hydraulic power discussion see this most excellent thread
Basically it's just flow rate * pressure drop * a conversion to get to a final unit of "W". The beauty is that it combines the ease of comprehension of dT vs flow graphs with the necessity to include dP vs flow info to be predictive. And we never said it was a low flow block or that low flow was ever desireable. I suggest that you complain to the "experts" who did. |
11-14-2004, 04:45 PM | #99 | ||
Cooling Neophyte
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Thank you for the link pH. I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone here said that it was a low flow block, but that was the impression I got from reading various websites. I will read the hydraulic power thread a couple times before I hit you up with my dumb Qs. =) |
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11-14-2004, 04:55 PM | #100 | |
Thermophile
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You can state anything you want about a product when you ignore those horribly inconvenient laws of physics, which do exist and do apply, regardless of whether you believe them or understand them properly. |
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