The HWLabs X-Flow thread

[Breach]

Opened for discussion on the X-FLow radiators from HWLabs.

I havnt seen any real reviews or numbers on this one yet. If anyone has any good reviews or information on flow and pressure characteristics on this new radiator please post your knowledge.

I have seen these so far on Danger Den, nearly the same price compared to the normal Black Ice rads for the moment.

[Etacovda]

mm, also says

"Boasting more than twice the performance of its predecessor"

Id like to see some numbers...

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

"Boasting more than twice the performance of its predecessor"

Surely this is blatant false advertising. Is there not some form of market watch crowd in the USA to take these sorts of false marketing statements to task?

Edit: Oh - I see that this statement gets qualified within the blurbage here:

More than DOUBLE the performance at the compact Black Ice® Prime form factor: rated for 790KCal per hour (3134BTU per hour)

Source

So they're saying that this single radiator is capable of dissipating 918W. No mention of air-flow, no mention of air-water dT. No actual testing results provided to back any of the statements up I see. Usual standard practise for such radiators it seems.

Man, will there ever come a day which this sort of advertising tripe stops being peddled?

[RickCain]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Man, will there ever come a day which this sort of advertising tripe stops being peddled?

Sadly no. At least not here in the USA.

[BillA]

only on procooling is a 'vendor' permitted to attack another
(as the R&D for an importer, am I a 'vendor' ? - others can address if desired)

that a major vendor of WCing components and systems would publish such in late 2005 reflects a total absence of intellectual honesty
the means of testing rad performance is well known
the required information to characterize rad performance is well known
the posting of incomplete data is how the ignorant are defrauded, why on earth would a major vendor do such ?

note that I do not accept that DD does not understand, they are perfectly competent
but someone (HW Labs ?) made them a push-up bra and they want to use it

how does the enthauast market progress with this crap ?
not with that vendor I would opine

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Surely this is blatant false advertising. Is there not some form of market watch crowd in the USA to take these sorts of false marketing statements to task?

Edit: Oh - I see that this statement gets qualified within the blurbage here:



Source

So they're saying that this single radiator is capable of dissipating 918W. No mention of air-flow, no mention of air-water dT. No actual testing results provided to back any of the statements up I see. Usual standard practise for such radiators it seems.

Man, will there ever come a day which this sort of advertising tripe stops being peddled?

Who is requiring the performance data? Only a few people. 99% of the market not only believes proper testing with scientific method and equipment is a complete waste of time done by a egomaniacs but they also wouldn't know what to do with the data if provided.

When and if water cooling goes main stream and large companies like DELL get into the game their engineers will require performance data and in fact there will probably be official standards/spec manufactures will have to follow. Until then the end user is the main buyer of parts and as said they don't care. They have no desire to prove how well something works because Joe Blow says they got 2C under ambient with such and such rad so it must be leet.....

Right now PC water cooling is considered a novelty item so performance specs are not required.

[BillA]

"Right now PC water cooling is considered a novelty item so performance specs are not required."

ONLY in the DIY market jd, and such does NOT justify BS numbers
follow your logic, remove the BS if it is not necessary eh ??
the inclusion of BS numbers makes their marketing such

I am in other markets jd, so is WCing - and valid data is the prerequisite to enter

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by unregistered

"Right now PC water cooling is considered a novelty item so performance specs are not required."

ONLY in the DIY market jd, and such does NOT justify BS numbers
follow your logic, remove the BS if it is not necessary eh ??
the inclusion of BS numbers makes their marketing such

I am in other markets jd, so is WCing - and valid data is the prerequisite to enter

PC = personal computer. I don't see any other water cooling market for PC's other than DIY right now. I agree that doesn't justify the lack of data and BS marketing. Just saying no one is pushing them to provide such data and there isn't any regulations requiring them to. If retailers and end users would require technical data or simply not buy the product then things would change. However every time people like you me and other preach for better testing and information all we get back is being called egotistical and ass hats for wanting such information provided.

[BillA]

lol
the hard core enthusiasts lead the DIY market, and who is leading them ?
are those market leaders acting without technical data ?
only those headed for failure, or intending to copy the work of others

be not concerned that dogs bark, helps to identify them if one cares

and consider BS data from the user's perspective: If the supplied data is incorrect/incomplete, what does that say about the supplier's concern with giving the customers something useful ?

I do agree with you that nothing would be better than BS, but not my choice to make
as Cathar asked, "Man, will there ever come a day which this sort of advertising tripe stops being peddled?"
I would answer: Only when other things equal $ in the importance of the advertiser.

[Hansfragger]

I am an end user and was having a hard time comparing radiator performance to the "specs" Hardware Labs provides on their products. Kcal and BTU's gave me nothing to compare to real world usage. All you have to do is go to a reputable site like Swiftech and right up front there are complete, useful data such as cooling watts(That the average Joe can take their CPU, GPU, etc, add them together and see if the rad will meet their needs)and coolant flow, etc. Even charts showing different fans effect's. It became pretty clear to me that I was not meant to decipher the specs(KCAL and BTU), only be "wowed" by them.
The situation with specs on watercooling products right now reminds me of how amplifiers for the audio industry were rated back in the 70's. Manufacturers could claim any wild power rating they wanted and there was no regulating body to set any standards. You could only grimace when a reputable reviewer would compare an amp claimed by the manufacturer to have "500 watt peak power" with a conservatively rated (by the honest manufacturer)25 watt amp and guess what? The 25 watt amp would kick the 500 watt amp out the door. Eventually I think it was the FTC that stepped in and said "All amps will be rated at a continuous power(RMS) with a specified amount of distortion-no more instantaneous peak power". Finally the average consumer could look at any amp and have a fairly good idea of it's performance. Hopefully that day will come for the watercooling industry as well. Until then, we should all be thankful that we have people such as Bill and Stew to give us the "Unbiased and straight scoop". Thanks guys!
Now back to the thread: I assume that the benefit of the X-flow is because the coolant enters one end and exits the other without changing directions, unlike dual pass designs which suffer a performance hit when the coolant changes direction. So it seems that performance would be improved again if the coolant was directed straight in and out of the header tank. I just modded my dual pass rad to accomplish this. mainly for tubing routing, but hopefully I'll get a little bump in flow. Any ideas? Here is a look.