Peltier hotter than reg water cooling

[rhodesman]

I got a full water setup and have been using it for the past 3 months and have been quite pleased but like always... wanted more =) So I went out and got a 175W peltier for my AMD T-bird 1.4 (with is running at 1.52 right now) Anyway to make a long story short, without the peltier I had temps of 45-50c depending on usage. Now I have 60c idle!!!! HELP!! I added the peltier and with a 12v DC at 25A power supply for it it's running, but the water seemes to not be able to cool it fast enough. Any idea's? I have my CPU with a copper block then the peltier then the water cooling.... Can anyone help?

-thanks Jason Rhodes :-)

[Kevin]

What kind of waterblock and what kind of radiator do you have?
-Kevin

[rhodesman]

I have a blizzard system from www.overclockershideout.com with the 5x5 radiator with one fan, the Z4 water block, and all the standard stuff with that kit.

[Butcher]

What is your water temp?
What voltage is the peltier specified to, most of that power are 24V.

I'd guess your radaitor is too weak for the pelt but it might also be that you aren't giving the pelt enough power.

[rhodesman]

My Water temp is 107 withthe pelter and 80 without it. I am using the power supply that I got from the company that said to use with my pelter (a Samlex 1223 runs at 13.8V at 25-27A) IT could be the radiator but I'm not sure. it's almost like the pelt is getting TOO hot and not cold enough. Not 100% sure

[Brad]

most pelts that size are rated for 24v

are you sure it is a 15v pelt?

[Butcher]

What are you using to hold the coldplate | TEC | block arrangement together? Often bad TEC results are due to insufficient clamping pressure.

[rhodesman]

I am not 100% sure that it is a 12V pelt, I am taking the info I was given by the company I bought it from and they could have been wrong.

As for the clamping, I am using 4 screws arround the CPU to clamp the
water block to the
pelt to the
copper plate to the
CPU.

Basically the stack above is how it is layed out... I was thinking of removing the copper plate but was not sure how the pelt. or CPU would do with both of them so close to each other.

"Potted Peltier rated @ 156W 16A 14.4V. Comes with Molex Connector ready to use on any power supply with a rating of 12V and 16A or more." -- this is what the company says about the exact peltier I have. And what I should run it as....

[Butcher]

Ok, the TEC is powerful enough then.

The mounting is probably the problem, that clamping method gives war too little clamping pressure on the tec.
The recommended way to do it is to have a separate TEC clamping setup and CPU mounting setup (see DD maze 2.1, 2.2 for an example). TECs need 150-200 psi, on a 48mm TEC that's 500+ pounds of force. A cpu is rated to 24 pounds MAX. so your TEC is underclamped by a factor of 20, not good. All interfaces (cpu and tec to coldplate and block) should have a thin layer of thermal compound of course.

Also you DO NOT want to omit the cold plate, that's a really bad plan as you end up using only a small part of the TEC, you'll burn up the cpu and possibly the TEC too.

[efreak]

Dont fell bad. I have the same problem with my 156 watt peltier. It runs hotter with the pelt. I have did some testing and noticed that with the peltier clamed in a vise with a water setup on the hotside and a cold plate on the bootom, the coldest the pelt gets down to is 60F. Is this correct? I thought it should better than that. I am using a 23A power supply, therefore i know i have enough amps to power the pelt!!!

[PsyKoRealm]

Your system would benefit greatly with a couple simple steps.


1. Clamp the pelt down hard on the waterblock.

2.Make sure your power supple is suppling as much power as possible.

3. What seems to be the biggest problem is the water temp. A better radiator and some more fans would probably help alot.

4. Pray

[Brad]

I'd definately say clamping pressure is the problem, you may also want to measure the voltage output of that psu with a voltmeter

[ondaedg]

using the motherboard mount holes for clamping a waterblock/pelt/coldplate/cpu is not going to work. A peltier unit requires 100-200 pounds of pressure while the Athlon cpu requires 16-25lbs of pressure. To get the proper pressure on the pelt/waterblocl/coldplate, you have to bolt them together. Melcor.com has a section on how to properly assemble this. Also, the 156 watt pelts aren't historically known to lower athlon temps by all that much over plain water cooling.

[decodeddiesel]

#1 you are using a grossly underpowered radiator. It simply cannot deal with the near 300 watts you are throwing at it (CPU, TEC, Pump). Ditch that POS and get a heatercore, or a BIX.

#2 the TEC does not have NEAR the mounting pressure required. The specs for your TEC state it needs 300 psi for proper mounting/opperation.

#3 that Z4 is a total flow killer, you probably have insufficient flow in your system, upgrade your pump.

#4 Don't expect sub-zero temps on a .18µ AMD chip with a single TEC. Even the 220 watter can't keep one at sub-zero under load. For these chips you need either dual TECs/dual radiators or something more exotic, ie phase change cooling.

It is too bad you bought the OCH/CPUfx BS. They really hype their products without a leg to stand on. I have seen this before and I must say they really do not care about the performance of their product and IMO false advertise when they state their system can use a TEC and you will get sub-zero temps. They will say anything (lie even) to make a sale. Good luck with that system I hope everything works out for you in the end.

[Brad]

decoded said it a little more harsh than I wanted to, but basically:

the rad can't cope with that
the pump is too gutless
the z4 is a piece of crap
you need to use 10 times the clamping pressure you are using

[jaydee]

Originally posted by rhodesman
My Water temp is 107 with the pelter and 80 without it.

This statement pretty much sums it up. 107F degree water temp. Find out why it is that hot, fix that problem and you are on your way.

Most likely a under powerd Radiator. I am not sure about the clamping pressure because if it was to loose it wouldn't be raising the water temp so much.

An yes that Z4 block is rather small for a pelt. Someone is sending me one to test (not with a pelt thought) so I will see it for myself and post my review of it in the forum when I get done.

I think they pretty much covered it. People should really look this stuff up for themselfs before they piss a way all that money by word of a businessman. Most people have to learn the hard way though.

[decodeddiesel]

Originally posted by jaydee116

This statement pretty much sums it up. 107F degree water temp. Find out why it is that hot, fix that problem and you are on your way.

Most likely a under powerd Radiator. I am not sure about the clamping pressure because if it was to loose it wouldn't be raising the water temp so much.

Yes you are right, the radiator cannot handle the heatload. However don't forget the importance of applying the correct ammount of pressure to the TEC.

http://www.tedist.com/technical/install.html

Quoted directly from this link on one of the largest TEC distrobutors in the world: "...The recommended compression for a TE assembly is 150 to 300 pounds per square inch of module surface area..." AMD states app. 20psi on an Athlon, obivously these figures aren't even close. Yes a lot of heat will be transfered but the TEC will not behave like it would with the correct pressure.

An yes that Z4 block is rather small for a pelt. Someone is sending me one to test (not with a pelt thought) so I will see it for myself and post my review of it in the forum when I get done.

I think they pretty much covered it. People should really look this stuff up for themselfs before they piss a way all that money by word of a businessman. Most people have to learn the hard way though.

You are totally right there, OCH and a few other are notorious for this kind of crap. It's too bad when someone spends so much money on such a poor system then thinks they have "the best" only to soon realize they were scammed. It stinks, but it's how these buisnesses work.