Finally finished my setup...

[redleader]

That was my point, all energy used will become heat. Its just that I assumed a 20w pump always ran at 20w. If it does for 10 seconds and then drops down to 2w under normal use, my point is kinda moot.

[LiquidCool]

I dont think your understanding what I am explaining. The energy used is NOT completely converted to heat. The motor probrably does use what is stated on the label. When it says 20 watts it is NOT talking about heat watts it is talking about electrical watts. So when the label says "20 watts" It means it uses 20 watts of electrical energy not that it produces 20 watts of heat.

The only heat produced by the motor is from the resistance of the motor itself. The same way if you have a peltier with a tiny wire the wire heats up. This is the ONLY heat produced by the electrical current in the motor. There is also some mechanical heat caused by bearings/brushes but almost all magdrive pumps dont have any.

[resago]

yeah, a good deal of energy goes to making those DAMNED magnetic fields that were screwing up my system.

[Kevin]

Overall, cool setup! I like how the coolant is mounted to the wall .
-Kev

[phatman42]

Originally posted by Michael Huck:
The only heat produced by the motor is from the resistance of the motor itself. The same way if you have a peltier with a tiny wire the wire heats up. This is the ONLY heat produced by the electrical current in the motor. There is also some mechanical heat caused by bearings/brushes but almost all magdrive pumps dont have any.

Look i'm just saying that the pump creates several different types of energy.... heat kinetic sound etc... but they eventually end up as HEAT!

[resago]

the EMI doesn't, it eventually gets grounded back to the earth from whence it came.

thus the circle is complete.


BWAHH HAH HAH!! Its the topic that just won't die!!

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: resago ]

[LiquidCool]

How does sound end up as heat?

Kinetic can, but in this case is so insignificantly small that it isn't an issue.

[jtroutma]

Kevin

Thank you for your comments about the origin of this topic.


As for the others, I appriciate your interest of modern physics in fluid dynamics/energy transformation. However (considering I am getting an e-mail EVERYTIME some replys) I would greatly appriciate that someone else starts up a new topic on pumps and heat

AS for my position on this whole side topic that has swamped my thread:

Energy = energy = energy
"Energy can nither be created nor destroyed; only transfered"

Pump takes in energy in the form of electricity. Pump creates knetic energy in the form of moving water in the cooling system. Part of that energy is transformed into heat energy (through resistance in the coils) and radiation (EMI), probably not more than 20% of the total energy being used. Pump keeps putting energy into cooling system in form of knetic energy (for the most part).
Turning pump off stops pumps knetic/heat/radiation energy input into system. Cooling system still has kenetic energy in it (in the form of flowing water + heat from other sources; CPU, etc.) Resistance in cooling system (blocks, gravity, pump, etc.) TRANSFORM knetic energy into heat energy till all energy in cooling system becomes heat energy, which is then convected into surrounding enviroment (air around cooling system).

NOW if someone wants to argue this explaination, PLEASE start a new thread!!!!!!!

Thank you for your interest in my original thread (till it got hopelessly lost in the quest for absolute knowledge; AKA "I'm right; your wrong!")

[resago]

heh, he got 32 emails, oops make this 33.

[morphling1]

jtroutma ,you're right about about energy conversion and how at the ends up as heat.
btw. I saw your location SLO , is that Slovenia

[LiquidCool]

So your getting this as an email?

[redleader]

jtroutma:

Glad someone else payed attention in Physics class!

How does sound end up as heat?

Sound = vibrations (in a wave) in matter. As the wave moves through matter it encounters friction and produces heat. Also when a sound wave hits a sound absorber (say sound deadening foam in a case) the energy is converted to heat. The same is true of sound changeing between any two mediums, some heat is created.

Actually its funny you asked. We spent a solid 2 weeks calculating how much heat is induced onto matter from different directions by different frequency sounds in my Physics class last Spring.

Sound actually carries very, very little energy. The power needed to heat a cup of coffe is roughly equal to the entire sound energy dissapated during your average superbowl! Its just that our ears are very sensitive to this form of energy that makes it seem stronger.

So when the label says "20 watts" It means it uses 20 watts of electrical energy not that it produces 20 watts of heat.

Thats the midunderstanding. You are correct it will produce 20w worth of "work energy". However since energy cannot be created or destroyed that work energy stays in the system in the form of "heat energy" even after its spent. So a system doing 20w worth of work will also produce 20w worth of heat.

Think of a TEC. It spends, say, 72w to cool a 50w CPU. As Procoolers, we all know the hotside will dissapate 72 + 50 or 122w. Thats because the work energy the TEC spent to cool the CPU is conserved.

The same applies to all forms of active cooling, not just TECs. In our case watercooling is active, energy is being expended by the pump to carry heat away from the CPU. Just like the example of the TEC, all energy used adds to the total heat in the system by the exact same amount.

In this manner the TEC and watercooled loop are no different. One may use electromechanical energy to cool, the other electrochemical (at least thats what I think its called, I could be wrong). In either case energy is being applied to speed up the diffusion of heat and that energy itself also becomes heat.

[redleader]

till it got hopelessly lost in the quest for absolute knowledge; AKA "I'm right; your wrong!"

Sorry

[Butcher]

Actually your TEC calc is wrong, a 72W tec can move 72W, actual dissipation is V * A which normally comes out at about 90 or 100W, the extra energy goes in heat dissipated in the semiconductors as they aren't 100% efficient.

[jtroutma]

Mike:

No I am not recieving these posts as e-mails but i am getting e-mail notification for every reply to the thread. SO I just got another 6 e-mails saying that 6 people just added replys to my thread.

Dont get me wrong, I like the fact that everyone is at least LOOKING at my work and at least not condeming it for not "looking professional." I like the fact that people are interested however this might be more ....simplier.... if someone starts a new thread (that and I dont have to come home and delete X more e-mails saying "__________ has just replyed to your thread")

BTW it is quite interesting to see all the different points of view (right or wrong) and see how people defend their ideas. It is also a hoot to see what people come up with (ex. water fairy)



Redleader:

I did take some physics in high school and at CalPoly University (CA) but I am also an engineer by trait and almost anything that has to do with physics/computers/electronics/paintball I LOVE to get into

morphling1:

Thanks and SLO is short for San Luis Obispo, CA (ranked 10th bests place to live in the US for that matter; expensive as hell though)

Any other questions/comments/death threats

[Butcher]

Why not just switch off email notification?

[redleader]

Thanks and SLO is short for San Luis Obispo, CA

Awesome, I'm hoping to go CalPoly after I graduate. I was up there looking around the campus this summer. Compared to Tucson, San Luis is sooo nice.

BTW, whats your major?

[jtroutma]

Redleader:

Computer Engineering (CPE)

have to finish some more low division classes before I head back there though.

Be warned though; Calpoly is an excellent engineering university however it is tough.

Butcher:

If I knew of a way, then I would have done it by now

[jtroutma]

redleader:

CPE (Computer Engineering)

Have to finish a few more classes at Cuesta (community college) before I go back to CalPoly though. Very expensive

[the creature]

Originally posted by jtroutma:
Added a Cool-Computers chipset waterblock w/ 36W TEC.

Would that be a Be-cooling block?
Don't you use cold plates?
Is it any prob. by using a TEC? Hard to get it to fitt/fastn? Is there a risk to short circuit at the festen (hold-down's), since copper is leading voltage?

[jtroutma]

Creature:

1) Is it a BE-Cooling block?
My CPU block is from BE-Cooling but the NorthBridge CHIPSET water block is from Cool-computers.

2)Use a cold-plate?
No, I felt that it really wasn't necessary.

3)Useing a TEC a problem?
No, I am only cooling my VIA chipset with the TEC and since it doesnt put out much heat to begin with, works rather well. I am wondering whether or not I should have use a higher wattage one though....

4) Mounting?
Mounting the thing was the most difficult part of the assembly. Main problem was finding the correct size screws to go through the MB. (Killed my original MB by using slightly too large screws; doh!) Used self-adheasive foam on back side of MB and used large washers on back side. TEC between block and chipset is held by pressure, Artic-SliverII, and Slicone (to prevent condensation.

5) Risk of shorting out?
There is always a risk when doing this kind of stuff. (Key note: killed original MB ) But the foam on the back keeps the washers from touching the MB backside and that is the only real place that I could ground out the block from.


Any other questions?