Anyone Knowe any good Soldering articles?

[jaydee]

I was going to do a writeup about how to solder the tops on a WB but I am not nearly capable enough to take pics and solder at the same time. Not to mention my soldering need some serious practice. I just need something to link to.

[EMC2]

Not a lot of pics to go with it, but the Copper Tubing Websight has some general very good info on soldering and brazing, including temps, solder types, flux, issues, etc. You just have to root around a little (most of the decent info is in the plumbing section). Although it's geared towards tubing, the same techniques and practices apply to all soldering and brazing Just depends on what you want

[jaydee]

Thanks!! I also ran a search and it came up with a lot of stuff.

[Cyco-Dude]

here's lowes guide on how to fix pipes. scroll down and you'll see the soldering copper pipes part. it should apply to soldering waterblocks as well.

[jaydee]

The thing with water blocks is you have to solder the whole flat of the joining peices, not just around the sides like pipe. At least that is how I understand it and tried it.

[Brad]

the main issue with soldering around copper is that you need a lot of heat, you definately need a gas torch of some kind to heat the copper

[jaydee]

I have been using a propane tourch with good luck. My main problem is getting the solder smoth across the mating surfaces of the WB. Takes to much time IMO and that is why I have gone with the removable top's on my blocks. It is actually quicker to drill and tap 4 holes than to solder the damn thing together. And you have potential Pelt holes to attach a pelt if wanted.

[EMC2]

Originally posted by jaydee116
My main problem is getting the solder smoth across the mating surfaces of the WB.

You need a small gap (2 to 4 mils) between the pieces to be able to make a good joint easily, so the solder will flow smoothly into the joint. Just machine a 3 mil step around the edge of the block extending half way across the flat. (and no, you don't have to get the solder completely across the flat to get a good seal,though it does help from a thermal transfer standpoint between the block and top)

You could also do it without machining in the step. You can get solder paste and apply to the mating surfaces. If properly prepped, then you simply heat the block/top together and the paste liquifies to form the joint. (although this really works best with a silver/copper brazing paste)

[mx-6*]

He's right you do need at least a very small gap, thats got to be a PITA to do though.

[jaydee]

DD just solders the tops together by covering the mating surfaces. Not sure how exactly they do it though. I don't think they cut any gaps in it. This is exactly why I said to hell with soldering the tops!!!

[mx-6*]

Maybe they put a pile of flux between the pieces and the solder squeezes in there. I haven't done any copper/copper soldering at least that I can remember.

[Volenti]

I always "tin" both surfaces before hand with solder, I have found that, even when starting with "clean" or freshley sanded copper, the heat needed to melt the solder very quickly oxidizes the copper, making it dificult to get the solder to stick at all in some cases.

I'm refering to typical resin cored electronic's solder using a butane torch, other methods will have different results.

[mx-6*]

Maybe they use solder tape.

[Fixittt]

Now Ihave heard of a "solder Sheet" its like a gasket that you can buy, and U can cut it to size. Then just heat in the oven or something like that and it flows to
where the flux was applyed. But then again, I have never seen it, nor have I ever soldered copper.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Fixittt
Now Ihave heard of a "solder Sheet" its like a gasket that you can buy, and U can cut it to size. Then just heat in the oven or something like that and it flows to
where the flux was applyed. But then again, I have never seen it, nor have I ever soldered copper.

If you used sheet solder you would have to mill it out to the channel design so all the extra wouldn't drop into to channels and clog them up.

Soldering copper is very easy actually. Especially pipe. I just havn't figured out the best method for blocks and probably never will being I don't want a soldered on top. I want them removable myself.

I solderede to pennies together rather easily. It is just a matter of heating the material up to the same temp and letting the material melt the soloder not the tourch.

[Brad]

couldn't you make a small channel, ||_|| like that where the copper sits in the inside?

btw, fix, check your pm's

[EMC2]

DD just solders the tops together by covering the mating surfaces. Not sure how exactly they do it though.

Sounds like they are indeed using solder paste like I suggested up above The consistency is about like the conductive ink in a silver trace pen. Lower temp lead/tin solder paste is how high volume PWBs are made to solder surface mount ICs (although there IR heating is used since the temps are considerably lower).

[Fixittt]

from what was explained to me, if you do mot put flux on a part, or flux is not present (such as channels or channel walls, then the solder will not adhear to them, so no mods to the full sheet would be necasarry

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Fixittt
from what was explained to me, if you do mot put flux on a part, or flux is not present (such as channels or channel walls, then the solder will not adhear to them, so no mods to the full sheet would be necasarry

I belive some will still fall into the channels. Would be a good experiment to try though. I have never seen sheet solder before though so I have no idea where to get it.

[EMC2]

Fixitt - if you tried to use untrimmed sheets, even though the solder might not stick to the channel walls, you would still have solder balls/clumps to get out of the block afterwards.

Here is an example of the solder paste I have been talking about for use - Solder-It Plumbers' Solder (CSP-41). Look at it here. Several companies make similiar solder pastes, although the silver brazing paste is much more common.

[Fixittt]

EMC2

I have not tried it, I was just passing on what I was told.

From what I understand, The solder will melt, and only flow to the places where the flux was applied.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by EMC2
Fixitt - if you tried to use untrimmed sheets, even though the solder might not stick to the channel walls, you would still have solder balls/clumps to get out of the block afterwards.

Here is an example of the solder paste I have been talking about for use - Solder-It Plumbers' Solder (CSP-41). Look at it here. Several companies make similiar solder pastes, although the silver brazing paste is much more common.

I actually have some of that solder paste. I bought it at Home Depot. I couldn't get it to work. It was a lot easier to just use regular solder. That stuff makes nasty fumes and stuff aswell. They say all you need is a lighter, but I couldn't get it to work with a tourch. It would kinda stick but it would break apart to easy. I couldn't even get it ot work on a the pennys which are simple to solder regularly. Maybe I was aplying to much heat.

[EMC2]

I've used it on the copper water pipes in my house without any problem (other than the fume issue, but then regular flux smells bad to me). When I used it, the copper was precleaned with a scotchbright pad, then wiped off with a rag with alcohol on it to remove any residues. Heating was with a torch, heat applied from the female side of the pipe joint.

You didn't perchance try to use flux with it did you? Or uncleaned copper? (it doesn't work well with tarnished copper for sure, but then most pastes don't, they depend on a fairly clean surface).

For a large mass of copper like a waterblock, a quality silver based paste for brazing would work better. (a brazed joint would not only hold better, but conduct heat better) You can use the eye of a stove for preheating (using a torch to heat that much copper without preheating would be a real biatch).

[Fixittt]

Man gotta love my new title!

[Brad]

just delete the CNC part, it is more accurate :P