pumps - Page 2

Dave33 · 05-15-2002, 02:52 PM

And you don't get grease under your fingernails!!!

jtroutma · 05-15-2002, 03:51 PM

BigBen2K:

About running Rios in-line; yes there is a way of doing it. I have a Rio1100 and modified it to run in-line and it's been chugging away for almot 7 months now with no signs of death in the near future.

All i did was went to the hardware store and got some brass fittings, sand paper (250grit) and 2 part epoxy. Sanded out the intake and the exhaust lines until the brass fittings slide in snug and then sealed them in there with a nice serving of the epoxy. It has never lost a drop of water for 5 months now (even with a slightly cracked intake housing

Dont have pics avaiable right now but can get them per request.

Mine barely gets warm to the touch running in-line but then again I have it right in front of my case fan (not my radiator fan). Some air flow around that type of pump would probably not be a bad idea.

BTW many people have said that Rios are POC pumps and that they die often. Well this may be true again if you turn your pump on and off twice a day. Mine has it's power cord going right out the back of the case into its own power outlet and runs 24/7. So far the only time it even makes noise is when I change out the coolant and get some bubbles in the system.

From my experiences, they are decient pumps (not the best but decient enough to work reliably for 24/7 operation)

bigben2k · 05-15-2002, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the tip Jtroutma.

Thniking about it though, I'd setup 1 or two pumps, submerged, in a res, above the PSU, along with a chiller. All of this in a tower case, of course!

This res would trap air, be easy to fill, quiet, and take up a minimal amount of space.

Hum. I'm starting to like the submerged pump!

But I don't intend on leaving it on all the time. My usual pattern is to leave it on for a couple of days, then turn it off for half a day. So now I'm thinking that the Rio might not be such a good idea.

I think that those people that slammed the Rios are just running a rig with a lot of flow resistance, and it kills their pumps, simply because it was under-rated for the purpose.

DC's seems to be running fine, and I'm sure he doesn't have any kinks in his tubing...

orev · 05-15-2002, 04:16 PM

I've only heard of Rios from a friend of mine who does a lot with fish tanks. He's had them freeze up for no reason before, after months of running just fine. When they freeze up, they burn themselves out, and heat up the water like crazy.

Still, if you're using monitoring software or happen to have a board that does the temp monitoring/shutdown for you, it shouldn't be too bad.

You just have to weigh the tradeoffs I guess. My Danner pump was less than $30 (though I might've done some coupon-trickery to get it...).

deeznuts · 05-15-2002, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I think that using MBM is just a reality that we have to accept. Since all AMD CPUs now include a thermal diode, and mobos are able to read them, it just makes good sense, water-cooling or not.

i thought most if not all of the amd mobo's do not read the diode.

Cyco-Dude · 05-15-2002, 09:46 PM

i think theres only like 2 MoBo that can read the Diode, the Asus and Soltek i believe...

orev · 05-15-2002, 10:26 PM

There might be 2 things here. I know there's a thermal sensor the AMD CPU. I also know that the Asus boards have a hardware circuit that can read the sensor and shut down the system if it gets too hot. That doesn't mean that other boards can't read the temp and send it to a monitor program.

The problem that Tom's Hardware pointed out was that most boards aren't using any on-board circuit for safety, and are relying on software to handle it. That's what Asus added to their boards.

It's possible that the software won't handle it if the temp rises too fast and the system freezes up. However, that's only likely if the heatsink falls off. In the case of a pump failure, you still have some protection in the form of the water block and some small water flow due to the heat, and the temp will just gradually rise until the software kicks in.

UnaClocker · 05-15-2002, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
i think theres only like 2 MoBo that can read the Diode, the Asus and Soltek i believe...

Epox 8k3a will read the diode.

pHaestus · 05-15-2002, 11:37 PM

The Asus and the SOltek just have a CPU protection that reads the temperature and will shut it down if over a preset value (prolly 70-85C). They were too cheap to add in full temperature monitoring via diode (or it was too much work).

The Epox I have heard some conflicting reports on. Zoson certainly seems convinced though. I haven't played with one so I dunno. Not like it is hard to add though.

bigben2k · 05-16-2002, 08:08 AM

I only use ASUS (I used to work as an account manager for the *then* exclusive distributor of ASUS boards in Canada), so I wouldn't know/care about anything else...

But I do know that there are other boards out there that will read the diode. If yours doesn't, then you can still make a circuit that will (with some extra fine soldering).

There is some controversy about the ASUS, because its reading of the temp (wether it's built-on or in the CPU) seems to be a little erratic, but the Asus boards now include OCP (Overheat Circuit/CPU Protection), and will shut down the computer if it gets too hot. The thing is, this system has some peculiarities that you need to be aware of. Look for A7V333 reviews.

All in all, most boards have a way of measuring temp. Wether its from an on-board circuit with its own thermal probe, or through the CPU's diode. Most times, you can access that info via software as well.

Lord Twilight · 05-18-2002, 02:07 PM

OK, so turning a pump on and off several times a day is bad... I am going to be building my first watercooling system sometime soon, but unfortunately, I'm not someone who leaves their computer on 24/7.. So should I just do something like turn on the pump in the morning, then off when I go to bed regardless of how much I use the computer during the day, or should I just have the pump on 24/7 even though the computer is going to be off all night? It will probably be a while before I trust the watercooling setup to run by itself without me there watching it...

(BTW, I'm planning on getting an Eheim 1250)

UnaClocker · 05-18-2002, 05:03 PM

I'd just leave the pump on.. That Eheim draws what, 50watts or less? Yeah, just go ahead and leave it on, and maybe in a week or two, when you have no leaks, you can trust it enough to leave the computer on with it.

05-15-2002, 02:52 PM	#26
Dave33 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 9	And you don't get grease under your fingernails!!! __________________ Dave

05-15-2002, 03:51 PM	#27
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	BigBen2K: About running Rios in-line; yes there is a way of doing it. I have a Rio1100 and modified it to run in-line and it's been chugging away for almot 7 months now with no signs of death in the near future. All i did was went to the hardware store and got some brass fittings, sand paper (250grit) and 2 part epoxy. Sanded out the intake and the exhaust lines until the brass fittings slide in snug and then sealed them in there with a nice serving of the epoxy. It has never lost a drop of water for 5 months now (even with a slightly cracked intake housing Dont have pics avaiable right now but can get them per request. Mine barely gets warm to the touch running in-line but then again I have it right in front of my case fan (not my radiator fan). Some air flow around that type of pump would probably not be a bad idea. BTW many people have said that Rios are POC pumps and that they die often. Well this may be true again if you turn your pump on and off twice a day. Mine has it's power cord going right out the back of the case into its own power outlet and runs 24/7. So far the only time it even makes noise is when I change out the coolant and get some bubbles in the system. From my experiences, they are decient pumps (not the best but decient enough to work reliably for 24/7 operation) __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

05-15-2002, 04:01 PM	#28
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thanks for the tip Jtroutma. Thniking about it though, I'd setup 1 or two pumps, submerged, in a res, above the PSU, along with a chiller. All of this in a tower case, of course! This res would trap air, be easy to fill, quiet, and take up a minimal amount of space. Hum. I'm starting to like the submerged pump! But I don't intend on leaving it on all the time. My usual pattern is to leave it on for a couple of days, then turn it off for half a day. So now I'm thinking that the Rio might not be such a good idea. I think that those people that slammed the Rios are just running a rig with a lot of flow resistance, and it kills their pumps, simply because it was under-rated for the purpose. DC's seems to be running fine, and I'm sure he doesn't have any kinks in his tubing... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-16-2002, 08:08 AM	#35
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I only use ASUS (I used to work as an account manager for the then exclusive distributor of ASUS boards in Canada), so I wouldn't know/care about anything else... But I do know that there are other boards out there that will read the diode. If yours doesn't, then you can still make a circuit that will (with some extra fine soldering). There is some controversy about the ASUS, because its reading of the temp (wether it's built-on or in the CPU) seems to be a little erratic, but the Asus boards now include OCP (Overheat Circuit/CPU Protection), and will shut down the computer if it gets too hot. The thing is, this system has some peculiarities that you need to be aware of. Look for A7V333 reviews. All in all, most boards have a way of measuring temp. Wether its from an on-board circuit with its own thermal probe, or through the CPU's diode. Most times, you can access that info via software as well. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-18-2002, 02:07 PM	#36
Lord Twilight Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 47	OK, so turning a pump on and off several times a day is bad... I am going to be building my first watercooling system sometime soon, but unfortunately, I'm not someone who leaves their computer on 24/7.. So should I just do something like turn on the pump in the morning, then off when I go to bed regardless of how much I use the computer during the day, or should I just have the pump on 24/7 even though the computer is going to be off all night? It will probably be a while before I trust the watercooling setup to run by itself without me there watching it... (BTW, I'm planning on getting an Eheim 1250) __________________ I've come to suck the fun out of the night.

05-15-2002, 04:16 PM	#29
orev Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 35	I've only heard of Rios from a friend of mine who does a lot with fish tanks. He's had them freeze up for no reason before, after months of running just fine. When they freeze up, they burn themselves out, and heat up the water like crazy. Still, if you're using monitoring software or happen to have a board that does the temp monitoring/shutdown for you, it shouldn't be too bad. You just have to weigh the tradeoffs I guess. My Danner pump was less than $30 (though I might've done some coupon-trickery to get it...).

05-15-2002, 09:46 PM	#31
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	i think theres only like 2 MoBo that can read the Diode, the Asus and Soltek i believe...

05-15-2002, 10:26 PM	#32
orev Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 35	There might be 2 things here. I know there's a thermal sensor the AMD CPU. I also know that the Asus boards have a hardware circuit that can read the sensor and shut down the system if it gets too hot. That doesn't mean that other boards can't read the temp and send it to a monitor program. The problem that Tom's Hardware pointed out was that most boards aren't using any on-board circuit for safety, and are relying on software to handle it. That's what Asus added to their boards. It's possible that the software won't handle it if the temp rises too fast and the system freezes up. However, that's only likely if the heatsink falls off. In the case of a pump failure, you still have some protection in the form of the water block and some small water flow due to the heat, and the temp will just gradually rise until the software kicks in.

05-15-2002, 11:37 PM	#34
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The Asus and the SOltek just have a CPU protection that reads the temperature and will shut it down if over a preset value (prolly 70-85C). They were too cheap to add in full temperature monitoring via diode (or it was too much work). The Epox I have heard some conflicting reports on. Zoson certainly seems convinced though. I haven't played with one so I dunno. Not like it is hard to add though.

05-18-2002, 05:03 PM	#37
UnaClocker Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 514	I'd just leave the pump on.. That Eheim draws what, 50watts or less? Yeah, just go ahead and leave it on, and maybe in a week or two, when you have no leaks, you can trust it enough to leave the computer on with it. __________________ The UnaClocker Watercooler Extraordinaire! Overclock till it goes BOOM!

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