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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 07-23-2002, 11:33 PM   #1
Dr_Pentium
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Default I have just about had it with my cooling setups !

I can;t stand this anymore, a few months ago i spent a good deal of money on a decent actually very good water cooling setup. After installation i have had nothing but probs, my temps average on idle were 40-44 degrees celcius, when my computer was idling at 26c. I have tried doing all i can to lower the temps but nothing worked. Today i went back to air cooling to see if i get a temp difference. and to my surprise there was none! I still get the same idle temp of 40-44 when my system is 26c


the cpu stays at 40-44 regardless of wat the system temp is be it 33 or 26 no diff.

I can't seem to see what my problem is.

My proc is a t-bird 1.4 @1.4
The hsf i used was a Volcano 7
Block Maze 3
Rad: Black Ice extreme.
Pump: Eheime 1048
120mm fan on rad 135cfm
Electrical Junction Box res

Could it be my chip is just a dud and produces too much heat?

What did i do to the water cooling setup ?

I have tried atleast 10 times remounting the block, and i do use AS3 under it
I have tried running a different loop
Pump>Block>Rad>Res>Pump
Pump>Rad>Block>Res>Pump
I have tried pushing air through the rad
I have tried pulling air through the rad
and i have tried 2 fans on the rad !

P.S some might say my temp probe under the socket is displaying wrong info. Well i dont think so, i have checeked the temps using 4 other thermal probes and get the same results.

my final question wat gives, i spent about 300cad to put this cooling together and its not goin my way

Thanks for any help guys
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Unread 07-23-2002, 11:39 PM   #2
Hallis
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the only thing i can think of is that the block isnt seated properly or with enough force... But if you areninterested in leaving watercooling i may be interested in buying your complete setup from you..
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Unread 07-23-2002, 11:49 PM   #3
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bah! i dont wanna leave watercooling, its great its just me that has these damn problems i guess, as for seating the block, i have tried to seat it 10 different times, i've used AS3 aswell, and i have gone as far as making the springs fully compressed as well and i get the same temps.

the only thing that i might not be doing correctly i guess would be the placing of the plastic retention things.

the long screws and nuts and stuff.

i had them on like this
This the setup i used for the default screws and stuff that came with the maze 3
| represents the long screw

TOP
nut>................ .|
washer >..........|
spring>.............|
block>...............|
nut>..................|
mobo>........=======
washer>............|
nut>..................|
..........................|
BOTTOM

sorry thats the best shitty diagram i could do :P
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Unread 07-23-2002, 11:58 PM   #4
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if you tightened them down that well then you should be fine,,, using water wetter in the water? they say AS2 & AS3 take a few days before they really start conducting heat really well. i dont know if thats true or not,, but i'm using a BI Xtreme, 163cfm delta fan. Eheim 1048, Innovatek Res, and an old prototype OCWC block that was reviewed on procooling but never made. the PolyMaze. and i get temps from mid 30's at idle to mid 40's on full load,, with the room ambient being in the 20's also.. something just isnt right about your setup,, since youre getting good air flow and in my opinion have a far superior block than i. (but mine is prettier damnit). the only thing i can think of is that your eheim pump isnt working properly.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 12:17 AM   #5
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yep usin watter wetter aswell,

hmmm pump you say? Is there any way i can actually test the pump?

i have run the pump alone in the tub, i have run it with tubes connected to it, and the flow is there. I did notice this though.

say for example i have a bucket of water on my desk, and i run a tube from the bucket to my floor where the pump is. The pump wont suck water, it will just run empty. get wat i'm sayin ? I dont know if this is normal with this pump. but thats all i could find to be suspicious

lemme draw a pic hope this works


if you chk the drawing you will see that if you try this, you must bend your tube so it goes down, when this is done the pump cant suck.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 03:54 AM   #6
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In your little experiment, was the pipe already filled with water when you turned on the pump? If its just air then ofcourse it won't suck, cause the pump we use can't create a vaccum to prime itself. My 2-MD-SC sucks water up about an inch or two unprimed, and its a big pump..

[edit]
Aren't you having heatwaves in toronto?
[/edit]
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Unread 07-24-2002, 06:02 AM   #7
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judging your setup, u should be able to reach idle temps of 32°C and full load of max 40°C with fans at 12V. no curing of AS3 or water wetter is gonna drop your temps by 10°C.

to judge if the block has been properly seated u can wiggle the WB and u should not see the WB wiggle independantly from the mobo. if u c the mobo wiggle along as u wiggle the Wb , then u r ok. a good way to judge also is to remove WB carefully and look at the layer of AS, if it has all been pressed away from the core area, then it means u had full contact.

i've been able to drop my temps by 4°C by doing the following. rounding an ata33 cable (my ata66 was already rounded). putting an exhaust 92mm fan where to heated air from radiator blows. then i was at 37°C (21°C ambient), after adding a second radiator outside of the case, i was immediately able to goto 32°C full load (21°C ambient)

i use the 'outdated' DDmaze2, hayden rad, carheater rad, 1048eheim, pvc tubing, generic heatpaste, radiator protector (Water wetter is way too expensive in europe)

my proc is xp1500+ running at 1615MHz at 1.80V. a higher vcore makes my shitty fortron 250W PSU fail. so i guess i could go a lil higher with a stronger PSU.

this all to make u c that the stuff u own should be largely enough to cool +/- 10°C cooler then u r now. search an ye will find.

ch33rz
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Unread 07-24-2002, 06:51 AM   #8
Hallis
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i think the problem may be the pump,, they are designed to push water,, not pull it..
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Unread 07-24-2002, 08:50 AM   #9
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Pumps have to be primed. You have to have water in the impeller before any magic happens, and I agree Hallis, pumps are designed to take from a low pressure source and force it out at a higher pressure.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 10:50 AM   #10
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Since you got the same results after you tested the volcano again. Do you think its possible you have something stuck on the top of the processor? Have you tried to lightly lap the core?
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Unread 07-24-2002, 10:58 AM   #11
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EEk, I would not lap the core. It is too easy to screw them up by not lapping perfectly flat, etc. I think your probe is jacked.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 11:00 AM   #12
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40-45 idle with 26 ambient sound about right with air cooling on a 1.4 tbird. That's what I've always got without going to extremes. I've used Volcano7, PAL8045 and even a DOB3. All have run about the same, just the Alpha was quieter.

Can't help with the H2O
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Unread 07-24-2002, 11:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by MeltMan
EEk, I would not lap the core. It is too easy to screw them up by not lapping perfectly flat, etc. I think your probe is jacked.
I also think that your probe is "jacked".
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Unread 07-24-2002, 11:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
EEk, I would not lap the core. It is too easy to screw them up by not lapping perfectly flat, etc. I think your probe is jacked.


Quote:
P.S some might say my temp probe under the socket is displaying wrong info. Well i dont think so, i have checeked the temps using 4 other thermal probes and get the same results.
Check it. Maybe just a little lapping? Enough to remove any residue that isn't removed when cleaning it. I assume you're cleaning it? I've lapped the core on a tbird 900 before and it yeilded 1c better temps, but that was taken with the in socket probe. I used a piece of copper. I also put tape all around the top of the proc to be sure not to get any dirt/metal shavings etc.. on the bridges.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 12:00 PM   #15
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Lapping your core should be pretty safe, I mean, there's got to be a lot of material between that and the actual innards, right?

I think it would be a goo idea, because you might have some old gunk preventing the AS from doing its job. At least you should clean it as per here with "High-purity isopropyl alcohol or acetone".

That'll probably do you a world of good.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 12:11 PM   #16
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wow, thanks for the replys guys.


Well some of you have said that the temp probes might be jacked, but i have rechecked with 4 different kind. so i dubt that is the prob.
My case is a Inwin q500 full tower every cable is rounded.

As for lapping the core, well...... i think i'll try all my other options frist, just dont feel safe doin such a thing lol

g.i. amour, when i place my waterblock on, i see the block wiggle just a bit.

could someone just go over the proper way to use the long plastic screws? In my first second post i did state how i was mounting the screws just wonderin if thats rite.

Here is a pic (hey i tried my best ) of waht my setup was

i had the res and the pump outside the case the res was nailed to a wall, and the pump was sitting on the floor. My rad was cooled by a 120mm fan
anyways here are some paint pics
just wondering could the way i have my res/pump set be hampering flow or soemthing like that
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File Type: jpg current setup.jpg (24.7 KB, 214 views)
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Unread 07-24-2002, 12:44 PM   #17
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What size/type tubing are you using?
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Unread 07-24-2002, 12:57 PM   #18
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i'm using 1/2" PVC braided tubing. it use to be clear but now its turned all white, some kinda residue has been left over. dunno maybe its from the watter wetter
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Unread 07-24-2002, 01:44 PM   #19
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Ok, fist off....... #1 problem.... your using tap water, I know this because your hoses turned white.

Use distilled water.

#2. Remove your MB from the case. mount the water block on the board, Using your current bolt config, U did have that right. I would also replaces anything that is nylon with metal. Bolts, nuts ect. except for the washers. Dont use metal washers. with the water block mounted to the board (outside of the case) Get a machinists ruler (about $2 at harbor freight, or any whole sale tool co.) and measure the distance from the top of the block, to the board. make sure each corner is the same height. If this cant be done. hold the board up to a bright light, and try to look under the block, U should see ZERO light where the core touches the block. and try to visually inspect the gap between the block and CPU. see if they are even. Also a shim wouldnt hurt.

Make sure your AS is very very thin.

Another thing I would do, is... if i am understnading right, I have your pump on the floor, and the computer on a desk. So its safe to say that your pump is pumping about 3 feet upwards. try to move every thing to the top of the desk at least. as to get some of your flow rate back. Try to have the res directly over the pump, so gravity can feed the pumps inlet. Also make sure that your res is 100% full. install an air bleeder tube if you currently dont have one.

And something else that hasnt been mentioned. But is the front of the rad restrieted by the case? I would removed all case metal that is in front of the res. I mean cut a big square hole in your case. Also the front plastic of the case bexel should be modded to allow adaquate aire flow thrue the rad. and also are U using a fan shroud to displace the fan off of the rad at least an inch? To remove the dead spot created by the fans center motor?

let me know.
Hope this helps.
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Unread 07-24-2002, 01:53 PM   #20
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k will try all those suggestions. initailly i was using tap water when i was test running the system, but sine then i use distilled water with water wetter. Is there any liquid that will clean off the residue ?

My case is not restricting any air flow the rad is mounted in the front and i have a 120mm blow hole placed there. I was not using a shroud, but my fan was about 1 inch away from the rad. Any links to creating a shroud? much appreciated

Should i replace all my tubing aswell ? Or is it safe to keep.


the pump is not directly under the res, but it seems close enough, most of the water is being fed to the pump due to gravity. i will reposition the whole thing and come back with some results later tonite.

Thanks for all the info guys. if it still gives probs, i will post real pics of the setup, maybe that will help more.
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Unread 07-25-2002, 12:22 PM   #21
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Hey guys, I'm back, just re installed the whole water setup

i cleaned off the proc and put as3 on again. moved up the pump to about the same level as the pc, and placed the res rite over the pump.

so far temps see much better

my system is at about 28-29, and i am idling at around 37

i think these are normal temps woith w/c correct?

i do think my case now needs more air flow, i was thinkin of adding another 120 mm fan but i dont exactly know where i can place it to intake air,
my side panel has a massive window on it.

Thanks again dudes.
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Unread 07-25-2002, 02:01 PM   #22
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i had a pretty good temp drop by creating a sort of duct for the radiator air. whatever your setup is, u have to try to cool the rad with air isolated from rest of case. using a direct cool air flow from outside on the radiator, try not to exhaust in case.
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Unread 07-25-2002, 02:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Pentium
My case is not restricting any air flow the rad is mounted in the front and i have a 120mm blow hole placed there. I was not using a shroud, but my fan was about 1 inch away from the rad. Any links to creating a shroud? much appreciated
1" from the rad and no shroud? the air leakage will be terrible. rip an old 120mm fan apart and put the casing between the fan and the rad.
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Unread 07-25-2002, 02:27 PM   #24
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glad things improved... hmmm. I lapped my P4 core, and the maze 3, but have never cleaned either one... maybe I should. ...geez, you'd think I was a newbie...

One thing I noticed... you've got all those fans in your case blowing out, and none blowing in. I too have the Q500, and the tiny holes scattered thoughout the case won't let enough air in. Your fans are choking. Put a 120mm in the side of the case, blowing in over your AGP and ram and Nbridge. You really don't need the other exhausts, except for the PSU fan.
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Unread 07-25-2002, 04:36 PM   #25
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hmmm ducting sounds interesting g.i.
might try to do something with that.

The question i have is, if my rad and fan are mounted in the front of the case, that would mean i have to do some ducting all the way till the back of the case and then cut out a hole for the duct?
also the duct would ahve to be the same size as the fan rite ? so 120mm diameter.
Another thing when ducting, do angles matter ? if my duct takes an extreme 90 degree turn, nothing should matter rite?

i just thought of this idea, using the silver ducting you can buy at home depot.
Cut 2 120mm holes in my plexi glass on my sidepanel, use 1 hole for a 120mm fan, then in the other hole i would run the ducting from there to the fan mounted on the rad. Make sense ?


I know all my fans are exhausting air from the case, i was thinking adding a 120mm rite on to my window to get some intake air.

As far as the tiny holes go in th back of the inwins, i cut them all out with a dremel so not a prob.

I really wanna try wat lucifer said earlier about using an old 120mm fan casing as a shorud or duct, only problem is i dont have an old 120mm to spare , guess i'll have to find something else to work with.

guess i'll have to soon start modding again.
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