WC newb in need of second opinions and suggestions

KlevrPhelo · 08-10-2002, 04:29 AM

Hi!

I just wanted a second opinion (maybe even a few suggestions) on a watercooled rig I've been planning on building. I doubt I'll be overclocking, just wanted to build a machine that's fairly quiet and has efficient cooling.

It's going to be a dual AMD Athlon MP 2100+ set in a Lian-Li PC-78 Server Tower. As far as the watercooling parts, I've decided on:
- 2 x Swiftech MCW372 Waterblocks
- 1 x HWLabs Black Ice Xtreme Radiator

Can't decide on what waterpump to get, either:
- Eheim 1048 or
- Eheim 1250 w/ 1/2" converter for 3/4" inlet

I was going to go with silicone tubing, but after a few days of reading this board, I'm more than likely gonna go with Tygon tubing. Is 1/2"ID x 3/4"OD x 1/8"W overkill?

Any comments and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I posted a similar message on another board and nearly got my head cut off for saying that I wasn't planning on overclocking the system, so please... keep criticism constructive and ridicule to a minimum.

kibbler · 08-10-2002, 08:03 AM

welcome to the forums

I dunno if I can speak for others, but I didn't wc to overclock, either. My amd 1.4 is still at stock

1) BIX's are copper, and Swiftech blocks have Al (if I remember correctly), so you will need water wetter, or you'll get corrosion. Personally I would go with copper blocks, but your call

2) With two (or more) blocks go with the 1250.

3) I think thats thickwall tubing you've got there. You won't ever have to worry about kinks, but thickwall 1/2" is tough stuff. If you make any tight turns, the tubing will put a fair bit of stress on barbs and such

jaydee · 08-10-2002, 09:32 AM

I used to wc to overclock and still do to a small extent, but there really isn't much point in reality to overclock anymore. CPU's are way faster than anything can keep up with them bone stock! The only reason I still oveclock is to crunch seti units faster.

Anyway I still make new blocks for myself and still wc mainly for silence aswell. I think you system is extream overkill for running stock but yes it will be just fine. 1/2"ID will not really gain you much over 3/8ID but do it however you want.

airspirit · 08-10-2002, 01:47 PM

The tubing isn't overkill, but I'd go with different blocks. You can get copper blocks from danger den for cheaper that won't corrode the crap out of your system and will work better.

For a pump, go with the 1250 and run your blocks in parallel. When you run the blocks in parallel, though, try to use hosing that is slighly smaller in the two divergent pathways to ensure faster flow through the blocks and normal flow through the radiator. If you use all the same size, you'll get the opposite, which makes your system less efficient.

koslov · 08-10-2002, 02:22 PM

Aren't the Swifty blocks anodized, so corrosion is inihibited? I think the Swifty blocks look great, they are lapped to perfection right out of the box. And they seem to perform on par with the Maze3. I'd go with silicone tubing from the hardware store, at first, at least until you know exactly what length you need. Otherwise, you might cut the Tygon to the wrong length, or order too little, or too much.

Don't forget the airtrap! I see you live in SD, so if you are building your own airtrap, might I suggest you take some of this damn clear acrylic tube off my hands! I am not a reseller, I just got this stuff from Ridout Plastics the other day. See my sig for more details. $0.25 per inch!

decodeddiesel · 08-10-2002, 03:56 PM

Well, as pointed out, this may in fact be slightly overkill for "fairly quiet and efficient cooling" but hey, it will provide good expandability for the future so you can utilize your tower with the existing cooling system for future systems.

No, the swiftech will not contribute to corrosion as the Al has been annodized in effect galvonically sealing it. Also the mounting system on the swiftechs and high tollerances for manufacturing and base smoothness make it a good choise. I think this would make a good system.

bigben2k · 08-10-2002, 08:59 PM

Go for the Tygon, 1/2 ID. You've got a very nice block, possibly the best one, and its hidden little secret is that it works better with 1/2 tubing.

I'd advise for the bigger Eheim, but since you're not into overclocking, then the 1048 will serve you well.

I really can't criticize your choice not to overclock, because it's up to you. You established the goal for watercooling, and that's a good step: some people get in it without a goal, and guess what, they're still tweaking their system, a couple of years later. Congratulations for sticking to your guns.

You'll get a long life out of your system.

KlevrPhelo · 08-11-2002, 01:29 AM

First of all... a very very big thank you to everyone who's put in their 2 cents so far, you've all been a really great help!

I have a few other questions I'd like to add:

What's the best direction for water to flow?

I've noticed on some rigs the water is pumped from:
airtrap/res -> rad -> waterblock(s) -> airtrap/res

On others, the direction is reversed (sorta):
airtrap/res -> waterblock(s) -> rad -> airtrap/res

Does it even really make difference?

Also, does anyone know if the Eheim pumps work okay while laying on their side? (Just curious.)

Thanks again for the great info!

Brad · 08-11-2002, 01:56 AM

cpu -> rad -> pump or cpu -> pump -> rad or whatever the hell you want. It's all the same

Just do it in the order that is easiest for you in the case you are using

Jason-Pro · 08-11-2002, 01:56 AM

swiftech blockes are anodized inside and out which prevents the chemical reactions of copper and aluminum being in water together also.. anodizing helps that corrosion alot.

and kibbler swiftech blocks will beat most copper blocks

just because its aluminum (which the part thats touching the CPU isnt even aluminum its copper) dont mean the WB sucks.. swiftech makes very good blocks. and its sorta pointless to cool the water after it goes through the WB you want it to be the coolest when it goes there. so put the rad be4 the waterblock and after the pump.
and swiftech blocks love high flow so get the highest flow pump you can afford (quality one tho) like eheim hydrothruster little giant ETC. (not a cheap powerhead of some sort or $20 pump)

and after your watercooled ill bet you $1,000 you will be curious to see what it can do

lol (overclocking wise)

kibbler · 08-11-2002, 03:09 AM

Oh, I didn't know the swiftechs are anodized, thats nice, tho!

Haha

The reason I vouched for copper blocks was that I think the swiftech block is kinda ugly, I mean, compared to the spiral and the maze3, you've got an asymmetrical baby-blue type deal setting in your comp, I dunno...

Eheims are fine in just about any possible orientation, except maybe inside-out

Jason-Pro · 08-11-2002, 03:46 AM

its not baby blue its actually sorta the same blue as the pro forums lol... they are nice wbs not realy ugly at all... but to most realy watercoolers its performance not looks

08-10-2002, 04:29 AM	#1
KlevrPhelo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 18	WC newb in need of second opinions and suggestions Hi! I just wanted a second opinion (maybe even a few suggestions) on a watercooled rig I've been planning on building. I doubt I'll be overclocking, just wanted to build a machine that's fairly quiet and has efficient cooling. It's going to be a dual AMD Athlon MP 2100+ set in a Lian-Li PC-78 Server Tower. As far as the watercooling parts, I've decided on: - 2 x Swiftech MCW372 Waterblocks - 1 x HWLabs Black Ice Xtreme Radiator Can't decide on what waterpump to get, either: - Eheim 1048 or - Eheim 1250 w/ 1/2" converter for 3/4" inlet I was going to go with silicone tubing, but after a few days of reading this board, I'm more than likely gonna go with Tygon tubing. Is 1/2"ID x 3/4"OD x 1/8"W overkill? Any comments and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I posted a similar message on another board and nearly got my head cut off for saying that I wasn't planning on overclocking the system, so please... keep criticism constructive and ridicule to a minimum. __________________ I'm a newb... can you tell?

08-10-2002, 01:47 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The tubing isn't overkill, but I'd go with different blocks. You can get copper blocks from danger den for cheaper that won't corrode the crap out of your system and will work better. For a pump, go with the 1250 and run your blocks in parallel. When you run the blocks in parallel, though, try to use hosing that is slighly smaller in the two divergent pathways to ensure faster flow through the blocks and normal flow through the radiator. If you use all the same size, you'll get the opposite, which makes your system less efficient. Last edited by airspirit; 08-10-2002 at 01:50 PM.

08-10-2002, 03:56 PM	#6
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	Well, as pointed out, this may in fact be slightly overkill for "fairly quiet and efficient cooling" but hey, it will provide good expandability for the future so you can utilize your tower with the existing cooling system for future systems. No, the swiftech will not contribute to corrosion as the Al has been annodized in effect galvonically sealing it. Also the mounting system on the swiftechs and high tollerances for manufacturing and base smoothness make it a good choise. I think this would make a good system. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

08-10-2002, 08:59 PM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Go for the Tygon, 1/2 ID. You've got a very nice block, possibly the best one, and its hidden little secret is that it works better with 1/2 tubing. I'd advise for the bigger Eheim, but since you're not into overclocking, then the 1048 will serve you well. I really can't criticize your choice not to overclock, because it's up to you. You established the goal for watercooling, and that's a good step: some people get in it without a goal, and guess what, they're still tweaking their system, a couple of years later. Congratulations for sticking to your guns. You'll get a long life out of your system. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-11-2002, 01:29 AM	#8
KlevrPhelo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 18	First of all... a very very big thank you to everyone who's put in their 2 cents so far, you've all been a really great help! I have a few other questions I'd like to add: What's the best direction for water to flow? I've noticed on some rigs the water is pumped from: airtrap/res -> rad -> waterblock(s) -> airtrap/res On others, the direction is reversed (sorta): airtrap/res -> waterblock(s) -> rad -> airtrap/res Does it even really make difference? Also, does anyone know if the Eheim pumps work okay while laying on their side? (Just curious.) Thanks again for the great info! __________________ I'm a newb... can you tell?

08-10-2002, 08:03 AM	#2
kibbler Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	welcome to the forums I dunno if I can speak for others, but I didn't wc to overclock, either. My amd 1.4 is still at stock 1) BIX's are copper, and Swiftech blocks have Al (if I remember correctly), so you will need water wetter, or you'll get corrosion. Personally I would go with copper blocks, but your call 2) With two (or more) blocks go with the 1250. 3) I think thats thickwall tubing you've got there. You won't ever have to worry about kinks, but thickwall 1/2" is tough stuff. If you make any tight turns, the tubing will put a fair bit of stress on barbs and such

08-10-2002, 09:32 AM	#3
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I used to wc to overclock and still do to a small extent, but there really isn't much point in reality to overclock anymore. CPU's are way faster than anything can keep up with them bone stock! The only reason I still oveclock is to crunch seti units faster. Anyway I still make new blocks for myself and still wc mainly for silence aswell. I think you system is extream overkill for running stock but yes it will be just fine. 1/2"ID will not really gain you much over 3/8ID but do it however you want.

08-10-2002, 02:22 PM	#5
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	Aren't the Swifty blocks anodized, so corrosion is inihibited? I think the Swifty blocks look great, they are lapped to perfection right out of the box. And they seem to perform on par with the Maze3. I'd go with silicone tubing from the hardware store, at first, at least until you know exactly what length you need. Otherwise, you might cut the Tygon to the wrong length, or order too little, or too much. Don't forget the airtrap! I see you live in SD, so if you are building your own airtrap, might I suggest you take some of this damn clear acrylic tube off my hands! I am not a reseller, I just got this stuff from Ridout Plastics the other day. See my sig for more details. $0.25 per inch!

08-11-2002, 01:56 AM	#9
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	cpu -> rad -> pump or cpu -> pump -> rad or whatever the hell you want. It's all the same Just do it in the order that is easiest for you in the case you are using __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

08-11-2002, 01:56 AM	#10
Jason-Pro Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin Posts: 217	swiftech blockes are anodized inside and out which prevents the chemical reactions of copper and aluminum being in water together also.. anodizing helps that corrosion alot. and kibbler swiftech blocks will beat most copper blocks just because its aluminum (which the part thats touching the CPU isnt even aluminum its copper) dont mean the WB sucks.. swiftech makes very good blocks. and its sorta pointless to cool the water after it goes through the WB you want it to be the coolest when it goes there. so put the rad be4 the waterblock and after the pump. and swiftech blocks love high flow so get the highest flow pump you can afford (quality one tho) like eheim hydrothruster little giant ETC. (not a cheap powerhead of some sort or $20 pump) and after your watercooled ill bet you $1,000 you will be curious to see what it can do lol (overclocking wise)

08-11-2002, 03:09 AM	#11
kibbler Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	Oh, I didn't know the swiftechs are anodized, thats nice, tho! Haha The reason I vouched for copper blocks was that I think the swiftech block is kinda ugly, I mean, compared to the spiral and the maze3, you've got an asymmetrical baby-blue type deal setting in your comp, I dunno... Eheims are fine in just about any possible orientation, except maybe inside-out

08-11-2002, 03:46 AM	#12
Jason-Pro Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin Posts: 217	its not baby blue its actually sorta the same blue as the pro forums lol... they are nice wbs not realy ugly at all... but to most realy watercoolers its performance not looks

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