Pro/Forums exclusive: Cracked Spir@l 2002

sunblade · 08-21-2002, 05:22 PM

After about a month of flawless performance, my poly-topped Dtek-spir@l developed a crack between the two chrome barbs. Luckily, only a tiny amount of water (which is now dry) leaked down the top of the block, but didn't touch any components. I'm guessing this crack developed within the last day given the amount of water that leaked, as I didn't notice a crack when I checked my system over on Sunday.

It's been said before by the senior members of this forum, and I have nothing else to do but say it again. Don't use metal barbs with a poly top. I'll probably be avoiding poly tops from now on.

I guess it's time to revive my old maze2. After I get my system cleaned up, I'll post some pics.

sunblade · 08-21-2002, 08:23 PM

After thinking about my situation, I've decided to refrain from posting pics and making the issue larger. I'm going to notify Dtek of this incident and attempt to construct a custom copper top for my spir@l since I've been wanting to make a custom block anyways.

So, sorry folks, the show's over.

toddalaska · 08-21-2002, 08:33 PM

i got a crack on my poly topped tc-4

i talked to dtek about a replacement top that aint plastic (ill never use plastic again.)

and they said that some anadoized aluminum were due in a couple of weeks.

plastic sucks thats my opinion, im sticking with pure metal from now on which severly limits my options for wbs the copper tc-4 is my best bet i think.

Boycotting plastic!!!!!

mfpmax · 08-21-2002, 09:26 PM

post pictures...i've already seen cracked spirals before...won't hurt

Which is why i'm proably gonna get a Copper Top Energizer Danger Dan Maze 3.

Gnozo · 08-22-2002, 01:46 AM

sunblade:
A nice way to handle your problem, not to go crazy in 17 forums and keep blaah'ing about how shitty a spiral block is and so on.......you had a bad luck, nothing more to say here...

People who is buying any block with a plexy/acryl/lexan top is aware of the problem. Some tops cracks, others don't. Therefore use it at own risk

big|d0g · 08-22-2002, 04:13 AM

My spir@ls been ok so far very happy with it my m8s had a crack in his spir@l :/.

toddalaska · 08-22-2002, 08:53 AM

In my case I willl admit to alot of it beting my fault, some rough treatment and just not being careful.

but it did go pretty easy, definitly wont be getting any more plastic.

Ill be curious what the anadized Al tops are like.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-22-2002, 12:34 PM

The reason why you get these cracks.. (i believe that dtek puts these metal barbs in?)

Is because whoever put the barb in didn't thread the hole first.. they just put it on.. tapped it in a bit with a hammer.. then forcefuly screwed the barb in place.. letting it create it's own threads.. that's not good.. If the hole would of been threaded first it would of worked fine and not cracked.. that's just my 2cents though..

I only buy copper top as well.. I will be using my maze2 for years to come.. I have no need for anything else.. I don't see the difference between blocks that are all copper..

bigben2k · 08-22-2002, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by |PuNiSh3R|
The reason why you get these cracks.. (i believe that dtek puts these metal barbs in?)

Is because whoever put the barb in didn't thread the hole first.. they just put it on.. tapped it in a bit with a hammer.. then forcefuly screwed the barb in place.. letting it create it's own threads.. that's not good.. If the hole would of been threaded first it would of worked fine and not cracked.. that's just my 2cents though..

I only buy copper top as well.. I will be using my maze2 for years to come.. I have no need for anything else.. I don't see the difference between blocks that are all copper..

Interesting theory, but I don't believe that Dtek would do something so silly. There would be a lot more problems if that was the case.

I think that it was either threaded a little too tight, or this crack came from the barb being screwed WAY down, where the thread is either not finished, or where the barb hits the block (and lifts the top).

Ideally, the top would have to be threaded all the way through, and there would be enough clearance under the top, for the barb to be screwed all the way down. It's either that, or use barbs with shorter threads.

It still ain't rocket science.

JimS · 08-22-2002, 01:54 PM

These are tapered NPT threads, meaning the farther the barb is screwed in, the tighter the fit and seal. Metal expands and contracts, poly tops don't. Metal expands, cracks poly top. Or, barb is screwed in too tightly, cracks poly top. Or a combination of the two.

Moral of story, don't use clear tops. This is roughly the 7th or 8th story I have heard of one leaking or cracking. There are probably many more that have not come forward to post about it. I know I've stated this before, but you can ruin a lot of pretty expensive parts with water leaking from a CPU block.

I would be very surprised to find out that Dtek did not driill and tap the holes properly.

bigben2k · 08-22-2002, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimS
These are tapered NPT threads, meaning the farther the barb is screwed in, the tighter the fit and seal. Metal expands and contracts, poly tops don't. Metal expands, cracks poly top. Or, barb is screwed in too tightly, cracks poly top. Or a combination of the two.

Good point! I forgot about that!

I'd recommend the plastic barbs, also because one would want to get away from the galvanic corrosion that any other metal than copper would create. I don't care if it's Stainless Steel, or Brass, it will cause galvanic corrosion with copper.

sunblade · 08-22-2002, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by |PuNiSh3R|
The reason why you get these cracks.. (i believe that dtek puts these metal barbs in?)

Is because whoever put the barb in didn't thread the hole first.. they just put it on.. tapped it in a bit with a hammer.. then forcefuly screwed the barb in place.. letting it create it's own threads.. that's not good.. If the hole would of been threaded first it would of worked fine and not cracked.. that's just my 2cents though..

I only buy copper top as well.. I will be using my maze2 for years to come.. I have no need for anything else.. I don't see the difference between blocks that are all copper..

I took the block apart, and Dtek did tap the holes properly. The crack probably came from temperature changes over time. In the morning when I started my comp up, it went from cool room temp up to load which would be 37-40C (and 47C when I was toying with my FSB

). And when that happens over and over for about a month, I'm not very surprised it gave out. At least it didn't drip onto my video card, whew.

<edit> Gahhh, I'm a Pro/Noob now, lol! I guess that came with the other forum changes. </edit>

toddalaska · 08-22-2002, 11:05 PM

not about the spiral but important none the less.

I bought two tc-4 and the screws werent tightened on either just something to look out for.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-23-2002, 01:20 AM

AAh.. expansion.. something Dtek didn't think about

I would never buy a plexi top.. I like it to be copper.. gives another area for the water to give off it's heat.. the more surface area for heat to escape.. the better.. From being a 172w peltier on a Tbird 1.4ghz user.. plenty of surface area is a good thing

The top of my block would get hot.. that just shows you that with a plexi-top.. all of the heat that COULD be escaping through the top of the block if it was metal.. is being carried through the water.. putting more work load on the radiator..

toddalaska · 08-23-2002, 01:25 AM

ill never have plastic again, and it would be nice if they would at least tighten the screws on the tc-4

Skulemate · 08-23-2002, 01:40 PM

Well Todd... it's time for me to feast on some humbe pie.

After coming to the defence of poly tops recently, both here and on a couple of other boards, my discovery is quite embarrasing. Last night I did a routine check of my block only to discover a small stress crack forming between one of the barbs and the screws in the poly top of my TC-4. Now, it doesn't leak, but it is definitely new... and I haven't touched the block since it was installed. I'm guessing that the cracks are stress cracks, and I think that my tubing may be to blame... it's pretty elastic stuff (I've ruled out thermal stress since I run SETI@Home all the time, so there's really very little thermal cycling). In any case, I am quite bummed... though I am very glad to have caught it early. Maybe I'll see how the new Swifty block does on my high flow system.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-23-2002, 02:27 PM

You know GeminiCool water blocks? It's pretty funny.. I haven't seen any threads with people complaining about his blocks and the plexi top cracking.. Anything on the maze3 yet?

Just seems like this Dtek stuff is just shit.. A companies product speaks for the company.

Skulemate · 08-23-2002, 02:31 PM

Actually, yes, I had heard of issues with the Maze 3... that's why I went with the TC-4.

sunblade · 08-23-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by |PuNiSh3R|
You know GeminiCool water blocks? It's pretty funny.. I haven't seen any threads with people complaining about his blocks and the plexi top cracking.. Anything on the maze3 yet?

Just seems like this Dtek stuff is just shit.. A companies product speaks for the company.

Notice that the Gemini uses only poly barbs, and the fact that the Dtek blocks only seem to have a problem cracking with metal barbs. The poly barbs used on waterblocks are much softer than the lexan used for the tops. Just food for thought.

Also, the maze3s originally had problems with cracking around the barbs and the counter-sunk screws. Danger Den later switched screw types and offered maze3s with poly barbs.

V12|V12 · 08-23-2002, 03:16 PM

Oh man, ANOTHER cracked Poly... when will folks learn about the trap of trying to show off and playing around with eye candy and water... JB--WELD that mofo if cracking is your fear...

toddalaska · 08-23-2002, 06:55 PM

My second one did the same too (cracked after a week).

dtek is releasing aluminum tops in a week or so.m, they are aware of the problem

Skulemate · 08-23-2002, 07:27 PM

Aluminum tops sort of defeat the purpose of the block though... I mean, if there's only one thing going for the block it's one good looking piece of craftmanship.

toddalaska · 08-23-2002, 09:38 PM

but it sounded like theyd be anadized different colors, i can see that being kinda cool cosmetically, but mainly theyll be metal

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-23-2002, 10:06 PM

Well mine hasn't cracked yet, but you guys got me a little freaked out so I'll be keeping a closer eye on it.

toddalaska · 08-23-2002, 10:26 PM

this is from dtek about my two cracked tc-4s

"Your replacements shipped along with new o-rings. Be sure to lube up the tubing before putting them on as these barbs stick to the tubing real well. The package was shipped 2 day air and should arrive Tuesday for you. Again I am sorry and please let me know if there is any questions. I will also have anodized aluminum tops soon and will send you a couple free of charge when they are done.

Thanks,
Danny"

handled like a true professional i thought

08-21-2002, 05:22 PM	#1
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	Pro/Forums exclusive: Cracked Spir@l 2002 After about a month of flawless performance, my poly-topped Dtek-spir@l developed a crack between the two chrome barbs. Luckily, only a tiny amount of water (which is now dry) leaked down the top of the block, but didn't touch any components. I'm guessing this crack developed within the last day given the amount of water that leaked, as I didn't notice a crack when I checked my system over on Sunday. It's been said before by the senior members of this forum, and I have nothing else to do but say it again. Don't use metal barbs with a poly top. I'll probably be avoiding poly tops from now on. I guess it's time to revive my old maze2. After I get my system cleaned up, I'll post some pics.

08-21-2002, 08:33 PM	#3
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	i got a crack on my poly topped tc-4 i talked to dtek about a replacement top that aint plastic (ill never use plastic again.) and they said that some anadoized aluminum were due in a couple of weeks. plastic sucks thats my opinion, im sticking with pure metal from now on which severly limits my options for wbs the copper tc-4 is my best bet i think. Boycotting plastic!!!!! __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-21-2002, 09:26 PM	#4
mfpmax Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rockledge,FL,US Posts: 731	post pictures...i've already seen cracked spirals before...won't hurt Which is why i'm proably gonna get a Copper Top Energizer Danger Dan Maze 3. __________________ My old and retired watercooling setup. Watercooled K6-2 450 at 600 Also Retired - Watercooling an XP1800@1782MHz

08-22-2002, 01:46 AM	#5
Gnozo Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 105	sunblade: A nice way to handle your problem, not to go crazy in 17 forums and keep blaah'ing about how shitty a spiral block is and so on.......you had a bad luck, nothing more to say here... People who is buying any block with a plexy/acryl/lexan top is aware of the problem. Some tops cracks, others don't. Therefore use it at own risk __________________ AMD XP1700+ @ JIUHB 12 x 202 Epox 8RDA+ Samsung PC2700 512mb Asus V8420 TI4200 Eheim 1048 - Maze1 - AirPlex EVO240 - Lian Li PC-61

08-22-2002, 08:53 AM	#7
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	In my case I willl admit to alot of it beting my fault, some rough treatment and just not being careful. but it did go pretty easy, definitly wont be getting any more plastic. Ill be curious what the anadized Al tops are like. __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-21-2002, 08:23 PM	#2
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	After thinking about my situation, I've decided to refrain from posting pics and making the issue larger. I'm going to notify Dtek of this incident and attempt to construct a custom copper top for my spir@l since I've been wanting to make a custom block anyways. So, sorry folks, the show's over.

08-22-2002, 04:13 AM	#6
big\|d0g Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: uk..telford Posts: 17	My spir@ls been ok so far very happy with it my m8s had a crack in his spir@l :/.

08-22-2002, 12:34 PM	#8
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	The reason why you get these cracks.. (i believe that dtek puts these metal barbs in?) Is because whoever put the barb in didn't thread the hole first.. they just put it on.. tapped it in a bit with a hammer.. then forcefuly screwed the barb in place.. letting it create it's own threads.. that's not good.. If the hole would of been threaded first it would of worked fine and not cracked.. that's just my 2cents though.. I only buy copper top as well.. I will be using my maze2 for years to come.. I have no need for anything else.. I don't see the difference between blocks that are all copper..

08-22-2002, 01:54 PM	#10
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	These are tapered NPT threads, meaning the farther the barb is screwed in, the tighter the fit and seal. Metal expands and contracts, poly tops don't. Metal expands, cracks poly top. Or, barb is screwed in too tightly, cracks poly top. Or a combination of the two. Moral of story, don't use clear tops. This is roughly the 7th or 8th story I have heard of one leaking or cracking. There are probably many more that have not come forward to post about it. I know I've stated this before, but you can ruin a lot of pretty expensive parts with water leaking from a CPU block. I would be very surprised to find out that Dtek did not driill and tap the holes properly.

08-22-2002, 11:05 PM	#13
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	not about the spiral but important none the less. I bought two tc-4 and the screws werent tightened on either just something to look out for. __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-23-2002, 01:20 AM	#14
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	AAh.. expansion.. something Dtek didn't think about I would never buy a plexi top.. I like it to be copper.. gives another area for the water to give off it's heat.. the more surface area for heat to escape.. the better.. From being a 172w peltier on a Tbird 1.4ghz user.. plenty of surface area is a good thing The top of my block would get hot.. that just shows you that with a plexi-top.. all of the heat that COULD be escaping through the top of the block if it was metal.. is being carried through the water.. putting more work load on the radiator..

08-23-2002, 01:25 AM	#15
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	ill never have plastic again, and it would be nice if they would at least tighten the screws on the tc-4 __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-23-2002, 01:40 PM	#16
Skulemate Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 381	Well Todd... it's time for me to feast on some humbe pie. After coming to the defence of poly tops recently, both here and on a couple of other boards, my discovery is quite embarrasing. Last night I did a routine check of my block only to discover a small stress crack forming between one of the barbs and the screws in the poly top of my TC-4. Now, it doesn't leak, but it is definitely new... and I haven't touched the block since it was installed. I'm guessing that the cracks are stress cracks, and I think that my tubing may be to blame... it's pretty elastic stuff (I've ruled out thermal stress since I run SETI@Home all the time, so there's really very little thermal cycling). In any case, I am quite bummed... though I am very glad to have caught it early. Maybe I'll see how the new Swifty block does on my high flow system. __________________ Michael E. Robbins M.A.Sc. Candidate, University of Toronto 12.1 GHz of AMD's finest (17.7 GHz total) crunching proudly for the AMDMB.com Killer Frogs SETI BOINC: Dual Opteron 246s (Iwill DK8N) \| XP2800+ (Shuttle SN41G2) \| 3x XP2400+ (ASUS A7N266-vm) SETI BOINC: 2x P4 2.8E (ASUS P4R800-vm) \| Crunching 24/7

08-23-2002, 02:27 PM	#17
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	You know GeminiCool water blocks? It's pretty funny.. I haven't seen any threads with people complaining about his blocks and the plexi top cracking.. Anything on the maze3 yet? Just seems like this Dtek stuff is just shit.. A companies product speaks for the company.

08-23-2002, 02:31 PM	#18
Skulemate Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 381	Actually, yes, I had heard of issues with the Maze 3... that's why I went with the TC-4. __________________ Michael E. Robbins M.A.Sc. Candidate, University of Toronto 12.1 GHz of AMD's finest (17.7 GHz total) crunching proudly for the AMDMB.com Killer Frogs SETI BOINC: Dual Opteron 246s (Iwill DK8N) \| XP2800+ (Shuttle SN41G2) \| 3x XP2400+ (ASUS A7N266-vm) SETI BOINC: 2x P4 2.8E (ASUS P4R800-vm) \| Crunching 24/7

08-23-2002, 03:16 PM	#20
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Oh man, ANOTHER cracked Poly... when will folks learn about the trap of trying to show off and playing around with eye candy and water... JB--WELD that mofo if cracking is your fear... __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-23-2002, 06:55 PM	#21
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	My second one did the same too (cracked after a week). dtek is releasing aluminum tops in a week or so.m, they are aware of the problem __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-23-2002, 07:27 PM	#22
Skulemate Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 381	Aluminum tops sort of defeat the purpose of the block though... I mean, if there's only one thing going for the block it's one good looking piece of craftmanship. __________________ Michael E. Robbins M.A.Sc. Candidate, University of Toronto 12.1 GHz of AMD's finest (17.7 GHz total) crunching proudly for the AMDMB.com Killer Frogs SETI BOINC: Dual Opteron 246s (Iwill DK8N) \| XP2800+ (Shuttle SN41G2) \| 3x XP2400+ (ASUS A7N266-vm) SETI BOINC: 2x P4 2.8E (ASUS P4R800-vm) \| Crunching 24/7

08-23-2002, 09:38 PM	#23
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	but it sounded like theyd be anadized different colors, i can see that being kinda cool cosmetically, but mainly theyll be metal __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

08-23-2002, 10:06 PM	#24
FRAGN'STIEN Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rathdrum, ID Posts: 380	Well mine hasn't cracked yet, but you guys got me a little freaked out so I'll be keeping a closer eye on it. __________________ This space for rent

08-23-2002, 10:26 PM	#25
toddalaska Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ALASKA Posts: 66	this is from dtek about my two cracked tc-4s "Your replacements shipped along with new o-rings. Be sure to lube up the tubing before putting them on as these barbs stick to the tubing real well. The package was shipped 2 day air and should arrive Tuesday for you. Again I am sorry and please let me know if there is any questions. I will also have anodized aluminum tops soon and will send you a couple free of charge when they are done. Thanks, Danny" handled like a true professional i thought __________________ Epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 (213*11.5) 512 corsair 3200 213 fsb turbo settings geforce 4 ti4200 -13619 3dmarks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 400 watts WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic

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