watercooled closed or open!?

[schizo86]

hi everyone....well im interested in oc'in my AMD XP 2000+ on a Epox 8kha+. now i was looking 4 water cooling stuff when i can across 2 good water blocks (according to the reviews). the CPU FX z3 and the swiftech MCW642. One of the kits that they sold was one that comes with has a rezavor and everythin (open-CPU FX). while the swiftech one has no rezavor(closed-swiftech) so my question is 2 fold.

1.) which water block sould i go with....if not these then which one:shrug: ?
2.) should i go with teh FX Z3 (open) or the Swiftech(closed) kit.

thanks

refrences:

swiftech block and kit:http://www.swiftnets.com/


FX-Z3 block and kit: https://www.cpufx.com/Merchant2/merc...ategory_Code=K

[Daleorama]

I just finished installing the Swiftech kit in my system, and I think that closed and open system each have their good and bad points. The good thing about the open system is that your water has to flow through the reservoir and so your system automatically rids itself of bubbles. It's also really easy to fill the system, especially if you have the reservoir placed higher than everything else. The fill-bleed valve system that came with the Swiftech kit enables me to fill the system and get rid of air bubbles, but I have to stop the computer and pull the fill-bleed valves out from their hiding place in order to use it. It's also a bit clumbsy using all those valves. The good thing is once the system is free of bubbles, the pump becomes almost silent (it scares me at times), and there is no splashing. One thing I did notice, though was that the total volume of water in my system is surprisingly small. I'm sure I would get better cooling with a reservoir because there would be more water in the entire system to soak up the heat. I think it's a toss up, but whatever you do, make sure you install the reservoir or fill valves above everything else in the system. That way the tubes will get rid of bubbles on its own.

[tokamac]

Initially, yes you will get better cooling with a reservoir, since it will take a longer time for the system to reach equilibrium. The larger thermal mass of a water reservoir only delays equilibrium and allows for some cooling through the walls of the resrvoir, but don't expect much.

Tokamac

[schizo86]

Daleorama- what are your stats on it. did it live up to whats said bout it? would you recommend it?

how far do you think i can oc a AMD XP 2000+ on a Epox 8kha+ with a peltier/water cooling combo?

so.....to go closed or not to that is the question

[Daleorama]

I know I didn't really answer your question about which is better. My answer is that both types of systems are good and bad, so you have to take their qualities and weigh them for yourself.

I just finished setting up the Swiftech kit, and to tell you the truth, I'm a bit disappointed. The radiator isn't nearly as strong as I know a heatercore would be. I think I'll try shrouding it. Also, this kit came with 1/4" tubing with quick connections. The kit specs call this tubing 3/8", but they are talking about the outer diameter. I want to upgrade to true 3/8" ASAP. I'm wondering about the quick connections that the kit came with, though. I don't know if I should just use adapters or take the plunge and start hacking up the connections in the kit so they can take 3/8" barbs.

As for your question about overclocking with a TEC, I don't have the Swiftech TEC assembly, and I haven't directly cooled a processor with a TEC before, but I have a 226 watt pelt, 15 volt 32 amp power source, and Athlon XP 1800 sitting in my closet that I have yet to unleash.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by schizo86
hi everyone....well im interested in oc'in my AMD XP 2000+ on a Epox 8kha+. now i was looking 4 water cooling stuff when i can across 2 good water blocks (according to the reviews). the CPU FX z3 and the swiftech MCW642. One of the kits that they sold was one that comes with has a rezavor and everythin (open-CPU FX). while the swiftech one has no rezavor(closed-swiftech) so my question is 2 fold.

1.) which water block sould i go with....if not these then which one:shrug: ?
2.) should i go with teh FX Z3 (open) or the Swiftech(closed) kit.

Stay very, very far away from the Z3. The Swiftech is by far a better choice.

Daleorama: Tokamak is right, the volume of water only delays your rig from reaching the balance point, where the rad dissipates as much heat as the block is taking in. A balance is achieved because the rad will dissipate more heat when the water temp is higher. The only exception is if you do what this guy in Denmark did: burry a 100 gallon tank 10 feet under.

Also, the swiftech performs much better with 1/2 tubing: ask pHaestus, that's what he did, and swears by it. (The Swiftech is now available with 1/2 in. fittings)

[g.l.amour]

i happen to like the hayden rad from the swiftech kit alot. it was coupled with a maze2 and eheim 1048. i was thinking bout upgrading and i got myself a beefy carheater rad. it had almost triple the volume of the hayden. well , hate to admit it, but in my particular setup, the hayden performs better than the much bigger carheater rad. together they work like magic. haven't had the BI's to compare, they cost way too much, but as i can see it, the hayden has a very clever design, with not too much fins, the air that blows through takes away alot of heat. more so than with the carheater rad, where the fins are more closely packed together. on the carheater rad, cranking up the cfm's does almost nothing. the hayden tho, hat off, seems to be well engineered, because indeed, looking at it makes u think it will not perform too well.

[g.l.amour]

btw, indeed shrouding it will allow u to use 1 120 instead of 2 120's with the same result. shrouding the hayden is the way to go.

[schizo86]

ok so the z3 is a no no.....but i looked at the waterblock reviews and it looked like by the graphs that the z3 was the better one.

also is there a way to make the Swiftech kit (closed) and convert it to an rezavor (open) one?

also if the radiator wasnt that good should i invest in a black ice? or a cube???

oh also is $558 too much for this custom built pc?
Epox 8kha+
AMD athlon Xp 2000+
Chieftec server dragon (black) w/ window
artec dvd
artec cd-cw
leadteck Geforce 4 ti4200 128 mb
creative labs sound blaster live
archtek smart like modem
d-link networking card
40 Gb maxtor hd

if you see something that you have up there and want to say something bout it then writ ti down
peace

[redleader]

now i was looking 4 water cooling stuff when i can across 2 good water blocks (according to the reviews). the CPU FX z3 and the swiftech MCW642.

What reviews did you read? I would call the Z3 "god awful" and the swiftek "acceptable".

also is there a way to make the Swiftech kit (closed) and convert it to an rezavor (open) one?

Why would you want open? Closed is better IMO, though I might add a res for ease of filling.

also if the radiator wasnt that good should i invest in a black ice? or a cube???

Niether. Get a heatercore. Cubes suck and BI are overpriced for the performance you get. Neither stands up to a heatercore, which costs much less.

Chieftec server dragon (black) w/ window

Just modded mine for watercooling. The full sized one (its a 1240 clone w/ 6 drive bays) can fit a double heatercore on top great. Amazing case.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by schizo86
ok so the z3 is a no no.....but i looked at the waterblock reviews and it looked like by the graphs that the z3 was the better one.

also is there a way to make the Swiftech kit (closed) and convert it to an rezavor (open) one?

also if the radiator wasnt that good should i invest in a black ice? or a cube???

oh also is $558 too much for this custom built pc?
Epox 8kha+
AMD athlon Xp 2000+
Chieftec server dragon (black) w/ window
artec dvd
artec cd-cw
leadteck Geforce 4 ti4200 128 mb
creative labs sound blaster live
archtek smart like modem
d-link networking card
40 Gb maxtor hd

if you see something that you have up there and want to say something bout it then writ ti down
peace

Redleader's got you covered. You need to look at that Z3 review a lot closer, to find out what's wrong with it.

If you're not sure about the price, check pricewatch.com . I hope that you're putting that window in yourself: if you are, you can get the latest case from Chieftec, the Matrix, either the MA-01 ('bout 80$) or the MX-01 ('bout 60$).

I'm getting the MA-01 myself.

There's no RAM in your system.

[Skulemate]

Why is it that systems with reserviors are called open systems and inline systems with tee are called closed systems by the majority of people? Personally I think that this is a very messy naming convention... it bugs me almost as much as when people say that their pumps are in "serial". My system is a "closed" system with a reservoir... and the only difference between my system and one with a tee is the fact that I know where my point of zero pressure is.

Sorry folks, but I just had to rant about this for a moment... I'm better now .

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Skulemate


Why is it that systems with reserviors are called open systems and inline systems with tee are called closed systems by the majority of people? Personally I think that this is a very messy naming convention... it bugs me almost as much as when people say that their pumps are in "serial". My system is a "closed" system with a reservoir... and the only difference between my system and one with a tee is the fact that I know where my point of zero pressure is.

Sorry folks, but I just had to rant about this for a moment... I'm better now .

You're right to rant, everyone has an opinion.

Open means that there is a gap in the loop, as opposed to a closed system (actually called closed loop) where water can flow in either direction without any loss. Unfortunately, that's still not clear enough.

With a res, assuming that it has one intake and one outlet, both must be submerged for the system to form a closed loop: what flows one way, must come back the other way.

There is an easy test: put the res/airtrap/tee at the lowest point in your rig: if air gets in the loop, then it was an open loop. If you don't spill any coolant, then you have a closed loop. (wether the pump is on or off or running in reverse)

Some people mistakenly interpret this "closed loop", as a sealed loop, where everything is enclosed. It's not the same. A sealed loop can still be an open loop, you just won't have a spill/mess, that's all.

Wether it's a res/airtrap or tee, it makes no difference. A tee though must be a closed loop (assuming that there are no other gaps).

[Skulemate]

Thanks Ben... it is a messy naming convention then if that's the distinction that is made. Oh, and the res is one of the lowest points in my rig currently... it's in my self contained pump box that is currently sitting on the floor approximately 4 feet beneath my chip (thank God for siphons eh? ).

[schizo86]

ok so lets say that i actully go with the swifttech kit....now i got 2 options....do i pick the 1/2 or the 3/8 inch??? does it really matter? o yeah anybody know where i can get a cheap chieftec dragon??? in black?

[ATLPIMP]

*edit*

Stay away from Overclocker's Hideout. They are known for poor quality, low performing products.

*/edit*

[Skulemate]

ATLPIMP

Yeah, that's nice and all, but this should really be in its own thread. It's not nice to hijack someone else's now, is it?

And schizo86, definitely go with the larger tubing size... especially with a block like the MCW462. By going with larget diameter tubing you'll help maximize flow through your system... definitely something the Swifty likes. Can you get the MCW462-UH in one of these kits? Because that would be the best choice in my opinion.

[schizo86]

unfortunitly the one with teh pelt doesnt come in a kit ANYWHERE!
i added everythin up and the price came out to be like 365. yeah thats a little bit too mush for me...... is there any other good but cheap ones out there?????????

[ATLPIMP]

Skulemate,

I didn't think of that, but I didn't think I was hijacking his thread. I posted a reply to the starter of the thread.

I've since changed the content of the post. I hope it makes you happier.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by schizo86
ok so lets say that i actully go with the swifttech kit....now i got 2 options....do i pick the 1/2 or the 3/8 inch??? does it really matter? o yeah anybody know where i can get a cheap chieftec dragon??? in black?

Go for 1/2, definitely: the swiftech likes it a lot.

Directron just sold out of the dragon: it was replaced by the Matrix MA-01 (full tower) and MX-01 (almost full tower). I checked Newegg recently, but it looks like they're out too, but they didn't have the Matrix (a couple of weeks ago).

365$? How do you figure that?
-Via pump ($22, get two of them if you want lots of power)
-any block ($45, 20$ extra for the pelt option)
-some tubing and clamps
-a heater core ($20)
-a Chieftec Matrix case ($80)
-a res (Rubbermaid, $5)

My count is: $192.

[Skulemate]

ATLPIMP... no problem... in any case I wasn't trying to be grumpy (though I probablly was since I am sick just in time for the weekend ... and while I'm at it, welcome to the forums ).

schizo86, the MCW462-UH is not one with a pelt, it's the high flow one with the 1/2" barbs... though the nicest thing about it is the 1/2" NPT threads that the barbs screw into... I'm gonna switch them out for 5/8" in order to increase flow further since all that I have read about the block (including BillA's purdy graphs) indicates that it is a high flow monster

One more thing: Ben, the Swifty with the pelt is crazy expensive, though it does come pre-assembled. And when you were doing your pricing you forgot the "hidden" costs associated with any project...

[ECUPirate]

no shit, skulemate. I've gone through a 1250 pump, a big arse HC, maze 3, DDen GF3 block, 10' silicon tubing, 20' of vinyl tubing, a handful of brass and poly barbs, teflon, plumber's goop, a 172mm fan and 4 120mm papst fans (not all at once), extra PSUs, rheostats and such, wire, heat shrink tubing, assorted 80mm fans, LOTS of cardboard boxes, many feet of PVC, PVC glue, WWetter, paint thinner, sandpaper, jeweler's rouge, dremel bits by the droves, foam rubber, hose clamps, zip ties, nuts and bolts, ....God, what else. It's not important... but I could have bought a freakin' Dell for the price of my cooling experiments alone.
Those of you noobs that think that you'll just buy a core, a pump, a block, and some hose are dead wrong. ....but it's fun.

[Skulemate]

Same here ECU... I figure that my pump, block and radiator cost $450CAD, which isn't too bad. Unfortunately, that simply wasn't enough to satisfy the monster of a project that I had started... my spending is now approaching $1000 . But it's all been worth it.

[schizo86]

wellben of course yours is cheaper..but im looking for a kit.....and the kit that i wanted was about 175 w/o block...and the block i wanted was 181 so add it up and you get 300 somethin....i was just thinkin that maybe i can score somethin with ebay....i saw one water cooling system......i dont wanna build my own well ciz i dont trust in myself but if someones willling to help me make a closed water cooling system then plz do...i need to be cheap but effective (not really cheap tho).

[Skulemate]

Good God... what block is $181US? Even the most expensive Swifty is $118US. That had better be one hell of a block.