Warning about stock micros..

bikr · 09-02-2002, 11:54 AM

Yo what up , i'm sure anyone who's ordered a bone stock micro knows that the barbs come out easy as pie. just be careful.. what you may not know though is that they don't clean out the mess that's left inside from the milling , my friend ordered one from DD and i went over to help him install it.. I had it in my hand and was checking out the barbs. <--small , i chuckled lol , i went to put on some tubing and out came all the shards of metal from inside , i shook it for about 15 minutes and more came out.. when that stopped i used a submersable pump to pump water through it for about an hour to make sure it was empty , then we went ahead and installed it and everything is cool. I suggest getting a modded one , most companys that mod them will already have done this for you , I got mine from sysfx and it was perfect. I think dangerden is doing the same now so no worries there anymore.. --bikr

pHaestus · 09-02-2002, 01:37 PM

I sent this to Willie (HWLabs) and hopefully he'll reply here.

pHaestus · 09-02-2002, 09:01 PM

Ok from what I have heard, it is extremely unlikely that a Black Ice micro came from Dangerden with metal filings inside it. There is no milling involved in their manufacture and Dangerden doesn't modify their rads. Their micros come from HWLabs with 3/8" barbs; sysfx is the only store that is modifying the rads.

Bikr, I can't help but notice that every thread you have on this forum is pimping sysfx. That's borderline but acceptable as long as you aren't affiliated with them. However, doing so at the expense of other companies (and ESPECIALLY with claims of faulty products) is not tolerated.

bikr · 09-03-2002, 09:40 AM

nono , i was saying that dangerden's were cool now , and that the ones that aren't changed after the original procedure had shards in them , Dangerden had hwlabs change them and they are now fine. but with the stock smaller barbs 1/4" is the one i saw the problem which would anotate that the micros when they were originally made weren't cleaned out possibly? just letting everyone know , the mod'd ones from DD are cool <--and yes i know hwlabs mods them for them. --bikr

ATLPIMP · 09-03-2002, 10:19 AM

Can you specify wich BIMs are qualified as 'modded'?
1/4" - Normal
3/8" - 'Modded'

?

bikr · 09-03-2002, 10:30 AM

the micros are made with 1/4" anything that isn't 1/4" is modded after the production of the rad.. at least that's what i think , if this isn't the case then please let me know , now i think hwlabs is modding them after production for dangerden , and possibly some other vendors , i'm not really 100% sure of all the details.. --bikr

ATLPIMP · 09-03-2002, 10:35 AM

Brian from BECooling said that HWLabs was shipping them the revised Micros w/ 3/8" fittings, and it would only be at a marginal performance increase (<5%). They currently only stock the 1/4" Micros.

bikr · 09-03-2002, 10:38 AM

oh oh , more stocks , do you know the guy from be? can he grab one and see if the stock 1/4" has any shards in it?? then we can rule out the possibility of a problem anymore , perhaps it was a early model that was overlooked , who knows.. see if he can shake one and see.. --bikr

pHaestus · 09-03-2002, 10:39 AM

If the radiator came from sysfx then it is modified. According to HW Labs no other manufacturer modifies the rads. Also according to HWLabs there is no part of the manufacturing process that would generate metal shards inside the BI Micro. I suppose modification would do that, but again according to HW Labs Dangerden never did the modifications themselves and instead had different (3/8") radiators made for them by HWLabs.

Keep in mind that bikr is (in some capacity) affiliated with sysfx and take his comments regarding the quality of other resellers with a grain of salt.

bikr · 09-03-2002, 10:47 AM

ROFL , i'm affiliated with them because i am a customer.. geez , i was just trying to let you know to be careful and just give an extra check before hooking up your system.. just to make sure.. that is all.. i didn't know you could say something negative about a company and get everyones panties in a bunch. I am just a customer of sysfx , and have a sub forum on their site because of a joke one day when calling about an order. I was bitching about UPS and he said that i needed an outlet rofl. Anyway , you can think what you want , i never expected this kind of reaction from just trying to help people out . never once in my post did i say a single thing bad about any resellers. just stated some facts. --bikr

pHaestus · 09-03-2002, 10:54 AM

All I have to go on is your post history:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sea...der=descending

bikr · 09-03-2002, 10:57 AM

ok , well , all my posts say that i got good deals with sysfx and good customer service.. they also talk about times that i didn't get such good service.. at places.. i state facts and that is all. i think dangerden has the best looking block on the planet , but personally i'm not going to put looks in front of performance. i haven't seen an official test against the 2 , but if dangerdens block were better at disapating heat , i'd switch in a heart beat. I have no quarrels with anyone or any company. --bikr

bigben2k · 09-03-2002, 10:58 AM

Didn't someone start a thread about this very thing, about a month ago? As I remember, they said that DangerDen claimed to be the first to mod a HWlab rad, when that wasn't the case.

Here's the thread

bikr · 09-03-2002, 11:07 AM

ben , this isn't exactly the same thing. before i was saying that i had my micro that was modded before dd had theres so how could they be first , i was wrong though after rereading there site.. i do apologize they never claimed to be the first.. that was my misperception , like i said i have nothing wrong with them just getting some info out there

Bignuts · 09-03-2002, 11:43 AM

Your physical proximity to sysfx and your posts have already led me to the conclusion that I should be wary of any of your info regarding sysfx, and other posts for that matter.

If you are indeed just a satisfied customer and are stating the facts, the tone of your posts has caused your good samaritinship to backfire.

Nothing you can say will smooth this over and now, as I suspect you are a mole for sysfx, especially with what I perceive as a amature FUD campaign on your part.

I am avoiding sysfx because of this, and while there is a outside chance that I may be making a mistake, I wont loose any sleep over it.

bigben2k · 09-03-2002, 11:53 AM

bikr, I think everyone appreciates your heads-up, but I think that you might realize by now, that by having a subforum on the sysfx website, you put yourself in a position of potential conflict of interest.

I'd urge you to either cut your ties to sysfx (dump the subforum), or quit posting (not reading, but posting) about topics where you may be in conflict, otherwise, your credibility may be affected, and may even extend to other areas.

My .02$ ...

bikr · 09-03-2002, 12:22 PM

I totally agree with you there , that it does seem odd.. and I understand where everyone is coming from. Just totally wanted to give the heads up like you just said. sorry truely about anyone thinking that i was trying to bully any company.. --bikr

bikr · 09-03-2002, 12:25 PM

Bignuts.. : My first order from sysfx came because i needed a pump fast and didn't want to pay extra money for shipping , i live in florida as well and UPS ground ships next day anywhere in florida. Like i said , i'm not boasting for anyone just saying that i've had good experiences and don't understand why they get no time in the spotlight. I am not trying to persuade anyone to shop with them , only trying to get a review where i can form a valid opinion off of , I've run tests of my own but nothing that anyone would call an offical test. I just really want to see the performance info posted somewhere. Like I have stated before I would switch blocks in a hearbeat if I found that someone elses outperformed. If anyone already has this info and wants to share i'd love to check it out. --bikr

pHaestus · 09-03-2002, 03:37 PM

I talked to Bikr and he seems sincere about not working at sysfx. I still am not sure what is the deal with this BI Micro with metal filings inside however.

bikr · 09-04-2002, 11:03 AM

Willy with blackice has been in contact with me and has been more than helpful. He is trying to figure out where the shards came from. It seems the rads are pressureized to get rid of such things or any foreign objects from inside the rad. I have provided him with pictures of the shards and he's still looking into it. I just wanted to say thanks to him for being so openminded about the whole thing and willing to get the problem solved, if in fact a problem even still exsists... --bikr

JimS · 09-05-2002, 06:52 PM

If the original opening into the radiator accomodates only a 1/4" pipe or fitting, then to modify this opening to 3/8" would require some driilling, probably with a step drill. If not, then the whole procedure would be useless as putting a 3/8" fitting or pipe over a 1/4" opening defeats the purpose.

I ordered my micro from sysfx and it had no metal pieces or debris of any kind.

nexxo · 09-07-2002, 02:27 PM

Just my 2 pence worth, but can't we just take each other at face value here, people? To quote Pat Cadigan: "There are only lies here [in Virtual Reality]" (Tea from an Empty Cup, Voyager, 1998). We don't know who Bikr is, you don't actually know who I am, I don't actually know any of you guys. So either we can go crazy with paranoia and suspicion, or we can take each other at face value and assume the best of each other.

I'm sure Bikr's intentions are good. I'm also (fairly) sure that we are all adults capable of exercising sound, independent judgement when it comes to doing business with a company, and are in this able to put other people's opinions into perspective. As always, YMMV, right?

mkosem · 09-11-2002, 02:45 PM

bikr is an old friend of mine and I can assure you he has no ties to sysfx's products. Personally I'd like to see a review of some sysfx product(I know pH has one down the pike). This issue is kind of getting blown out of proportions anyways.

--Matt

09-02-2002, 11:54 AM	#1
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	Warning about stock micros.. Yo what up , i'm sure anyone who's ordered a bone stock micro knows that the barbs come out easy as pie. just be careful.. what you may not know though is that they don't clean out the mess that's left inside from the milling , my friend ordered one from DD and i went over to help him install it.. I had it in my hand and was checking out the barbs. <--small , i chuckled lol , i went to put on some tubing and out came all the shards of metal from inside , i shook it for about 15 minutes and more came out.. when that stopped i used a submersable pump to pump water through it for about an hour to make sure it was empty , then we went ahead and installed it and everything is cool. I suggest getting a modded one , most companys that mod them will already have done this for you , I got mine from sysfx and it was perfect. I think dangerden is doing the same now so no worries there anymore.. --bikr

09-03-2002, 10:19 AM	#5
ATLPIMP Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 16	Can you specify wich BIMs are qualified as 'modded'? 1/4" - Normal 3/8" - 'Modded' ? __________________ -ATLPIMP

09-03-2002, 10:35 AM	#7
ATLPIMP Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 16	Brian from BECooling said that HWLabs was shipping them the revised Micros w/ 3/8" fittings, and it would only be at a marginal performance increase (<5%). They currently only stock the 1/4" Micros. __________________ -ATLPIMP

09-03-2002, 10:58 AM	#13
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Didn't someone start a thread about this very thing, about a month ago? As I remember, they said that DangerDen claimed to be the first to mod a HWlab rad, when that wasn't the case. Here's the thread __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-03-2002, 11:43 AM	#15
Bignuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 155	Suspect Your physical proximity to sysfx and your posts have already led me to the conclusion that I should be wary of any of your info regarding sysfx, and other posts for that matter. If you are indeed just a satisfied customer and are stating the facts, the tone of your posts has caused your good samaritinship to backfire. Nothing you can say will smooth this over and now, as I suspect you are a mole for sysfx, especially with what I perceive as a amature FUD campaign on your part. I am avoiding sysfx because of this, and while there is a outside chance that I may be making a mistake, I wont loose any sleep over it. Last edited by Bignuts; 09-04-2002 at 11:31 AM.

09-02-2002, 01:37 PM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I sent this to Willie (HWLabs) and hopefully he'll reply here.

09-02-2002, 09:01 PM	#3
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Ok from what I have heard, it is extremely unlikely that a Black Ice micro came from Dangerden with metal filings inside it. There is no milling involved in their manufacture and Dangerden doesn't modify their rads. Their micros come from HWLabs with 3/8" barbs; sysfx is the only store that is modifying the rads. Bikr, I can't help but notice that every thread you have on this forum is pimping sysfx. That's borderline but acceptable as long as you aren't affiliated with them. However, doing so at the expense of other companies (and ESPECIALLY with claims of faulty products) is not tolerated.

09-03-2002, 09:40 AM	#4
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	nono , i was saying that dangerden's were cool now , and that the ones that aren't changed after the original procedure had shards in them , Dangerden had hwlabs change them and they are now fine. but with the stock smaller barbs 1/4" is the one i saw the problem which would anotate that the micros when they were originally made weren't cleaned out possibly? just letting everyone know , the mod'd ones from DD are cool <--and yes i know hwlabs mods them for them. --bikr

09-03-2002, 10:30 AM	#6
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	the micros are made with 1/4" anything that isn't 1/4" is modded after the production of the rad.. at least that's what i think , if this isn't the case then please let me know , now i think hwlabs is modding them after production for dangerden , and possibly some other vendors , i'm not really 100% sure of all the details.. --bikr

09-03-2002, 10:38 AM	#8
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	oh oh , more stocks , do you know the guy from be? can he grab one and see if the stock 1/4" has any shards in it?? then we can rule out the possibility of a problem anymore , perhaps it was a early model that was overlooked , who knows.. see if he can shake one and see.. --bikr

09-03-2002, 10:39 AM	#9
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	If the radiator came from sysfx then it is modified. According to HW Labs no other manufacturer modifies the rads. Also according to HWLabs there is no part of the manufacturing process that would generate metal shards inside the BI Micro. I suppose modification would do that, but again according to HW Labs Dangerden never did the modifications themselves and instead had different (3/8") radiators made for them by HWLabs. Keep in mind that bikr is (in some capacity) affiliated with sysfx and take his comments regarding the quality of other resellers with a grain of salt.

09-03-2002, 10:47 AM	#10
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	ROFL , i'm affiliated with them because i am a customer.. geez , i was just trying to let you know to be careful and just give an extra check before hooking up your system.. just to make sure.. that is all.. i didn't know you could say something negative about a company and get everyones panties in a bunch. I am just a customer of sysfx , and have a sub forum on their site because of a joke one day when calling about an order. I was bitching about UPS and he said that i needed an outlet rofl. Anyway , you can think what you want , i never expected this kind of reaction from just trying to help people out . never once in my post did i say a single thing bad about any resellers. just stated some facts. --bikr

09-03-2002, 10:54 AM	#11
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	All I have to go on is your post history: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sea...der=descending

09-03-2002, 10:57 AM	#12
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	ok , well , all my posts say that i got good deals with sysfx and good customer service.. they also talk about times that i didn't get such good service.. at places.. i state facts and that is all. i think dangerden has the best looking block on the planet , but personally i'm not going to put looks in front of performance. i haven't seen an official test against the 2 , but if dangerdens block were better at disapating heat , i'd switch in a heart beat. I have no quarrels with anyone or any company. --bikr

09-03-2002, 11:07 AM	#14
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	ben , this isn't exactly the same thing. before i was saying that i had my micro that was modded before dd had theres so how could they be first , i was wrong though after rereading there site.. i do apologize they never claimed to be the first.. that was my misperception , like i said i have nothing wrong with them just getting some info out there

09-03-2002, 11:53 AM	#16
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	bikr, I think everyone appreciates your heads-up, but I think that you might realize by now, that by having a subforum on the sysfx website, you put yourself in a position of potential conflict of interest. I'd urge you to either cut your ties to sysfx (dump the subforum), or quit posting (not reading, but posting) about topics where you may be in conflict, otherwise, your credibility may be affected, and may even extend to other areas. My .02$ ... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-03-2002, 12:22 PM	#17
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	I totally agree with you there , that it does seem odd.. and I understand where everyone is coming from. Just totally wanted to give the heads up like you just said. sorry truely about anyone thinking that i was trying to bully any company.. --bikr

09-03-2002, 12:25 PM	#18
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	Bignuts.. : My first order from sysfx came because i needed a pump fast and didn't want to pay extra money for shipping , i live in florida as well and UPS ground ships next day anywhere in florida. Like i said , i'm not boasting for anyone just saying that i've had good experiences and don't understand why they get no time in the spotlight. I am not trying to persuade anyone to shop with them , only trying to get a review where i can form a valid opinion off of , I've run tests of my own but nothing that anyone would call an offical test. I just really want to see the performance info posted somewhere. Like I have stated before I would switch blocks in a hearbeat if I found that someone elses outperformed. If anyone already has this info and wants to share i'd love to check it out. --bikr

09-03-2002, 03:37 PM	#19
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I talked to Bikr and he seems sincere about not working at sysfx. I still am not sure what is the deal with this BI Micro with metal filings inside however.

09-04-2002, 11:03 AM	#20
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	Willy with blackice has been in contact with me and has been more than helpful. He is trying to figure out where the shards came from. It seems the rads are pressureized to get rid of such things or any foreign objects from inside the rad. I have provided him with pictures of the shards and he's still looking into it. I just wanted to say thanks to him for being so openminded about the whole thing and willing to get the problem solved, if in fact a problem even still exsists... --bikr

09-05-2002, 06:52 PM	#21
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	If the original opening into the radiator accomodates only a 1/4" pipe or fitting, then to modify this opening to 3/8" would require some driilling, probably with a step drill. If not, then the whole procedure would be useless as putting a 3/8" fitting or pipe over a 1/4" opening defeats the purpose. I ordered my micro from sysfx and it had no metal pieces or debris of any kind.

09-07-2002, 02:27 PM	#22
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Just my 2 pence worth, but can't we just take each other at face value here, people? To quote Pat Cadigan: "There are only lies here [in Virtual Reality]" (Tea from an Empty Cup, Voyager, 1998). We don't know who Bikr is, you don't actually know who I am, I don't actually know any of you guys. So either we can go crazy with paranoia and suspicion, or we can take each other at face value and assume the best of each other. I'm sure Bikr's intentions are good. I'm also (fairly) sure that we are all adults capable of exercising sound, independent judgement when it comes to doing business with a company, and are in this able to put other people's opinions into perspective. As always, YMMV, right? __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

09-11-2002, 02:45 PM	#23
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	bikr is an old friend of mine and I can assure you he has no ties to sysfx's products. Personally I'd like to see a review of some sysfx product(I know pH has one down the pike). This issue is kind of getting blown out of proportions anyways. --Matt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com Last edited by mkosem; 09-11-2002 at 02:50 PM.

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