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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

View Poll Results: Which block will perform better on a hi-flow 1/2" setup?
Sidewinder TC-4 39 66.10%
GeminiCool "high flow" 20 33.90%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 09-15-2002, 10:55 AM   #101
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Quote:
Twisting the water around won't do anything but add heat.
Not true. This design causes mixing in the water (turbulence) which is good for heat transfer.

Many oil coolers have turbulators similar to the ones D-Tek uses. I am quite surprised that the TC-4 would perform better without the turbulators; it seemed to have a boost relative to other maze-type blocks in Bill's test data.
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Unread 09-15-2002, 10:09 PM   #102
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I do believe the reason I saw a difference was the size of the pump I am using. I think the tubulators were causing too much restriction to the flow/watts that the 1250 delivers. With a smaller pump the tubulators may work better. The Eheim 1250 has a total of 28 watts output, this heat was being absorbed by the water. With the faster moving water my temps dropped.
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Unread 09-15-2002, 10:51 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by pHaestus


Many oil coolers have turbulators
This is very true. I have a tranny fluid/oil cooler for a rad and it has the turbulator deal inside the copper tubing. Destroys flow rate but it works alright.
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Unread 09-16-2002, 03:50 AM   #104
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Both heater cores I had have turbulators inside the pipes. They look like copper strips with little fins left and right.
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Unread 09-16-2002, 09:10 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by pHaestus
Not true. This design causes mixing in the water (turbulence) which is good for heat transfer.

Many oil coolers have turbulators similar to the ones D-Tek uses. I am quite surprised that the TC-4 would perform better without the turbulators; it seemed to have a boost relative to other maze-type blocks in Bill's test data.
You're right.

I keep thinking linearly, I figured that the water would only be turning, but since it's turning, it gets thrown around, and creates turbulence.

I can't help to think that this chain of cones might work better. I'll have to figure out a way to test my theory... If everything goes well, I might even create a sweet spot that way!
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Unread 09-16-2002, 09:25 AM   #106
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I bought some stainless springs. The springs are not tightly wrapped, but more open. They fit the inside of the channel perfect over the entire distance the water travels. Having these smalll ridges will add turbulence but at the same time not restrict the flow to my pump. When I put the system back together I will try this setup.

Last edited by DodgeViper; 09-17-2002 at 11:39 PM.
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Unread 09-16-2002, 01:26 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by pHaestus

I am quite surprised that the TC-4 would perform better without the turbulators; it seemed to have a boost relative to other maze-type blocks in Bill's test data.
I was under the impression that the version TC-4 tested by Billa had no turbulators:-
Not corrected by Billa when I suggested here http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...3&pagenumber=1

Perhaps Billa could clarify.
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Unread 09-16-2002, 04:56 PM   #108
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Hey DodgeViper,

After you get done trying that experiment, please PM me with the results. I am very interested in how that turns out.

Thanks
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Unread 09-16-2002, 10:08 PM   #109
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Here is an image of the spring and info. This spring is stainless and will be better.



Type Compression Springs
Material Type 302 Stainless Steel
Ends Closed
Wire Type Round Wire
Outside Diameter 3/8"
Overall Length 2"
Wire Size .047"
Maximum Load 11.07 lbs.
Maximum Deflection 1.03"
Rate 10.78 lbs./inch
Solid Height .89"
System of Measurement Inch
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Unread 09-17-2002, 07:06 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by jtroutma
Hey DodgeViper,

After you get done trying that experiment, please PM me with the results. I am very interested in how that turns out.

Thanks
Never mind the PM, post results here!

Looking forward to it!
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Unread 09-17-2002, 08:17 AM   #111
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One would think that placing a spring within the channel would cause turbulence. If true then all blocks on the market you could add a spring. My plan is to stretch out the spring so the coils of the spring are separated about 1/4" allowing water to flow against the channel sides and over the coils. Yes I will post my results once the system is back up and running.
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Unread 09-17-2002, 08:34 AM   #112
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Alternatively, for those that are becoming paranoid about galvanic corrosion (like me!), one could always use a piece of copper wire, strip it, wrap it around a pen or something, and put it in the block. It would be best if it was as big as the channel though.

If that doesn't do anything, we could try my chain of inverted cones!
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Unread 09-17-2002, 03:40 PM   #113
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BigBen,

Your design has merit but I wonder how much resistance it will add to the block design. That will produce quite a bit of backflow in the channel I would suspect.

Wouldnt it be better to have the cones going against the flow of the cones? AKA turn them around. that would still provide reasonable turbulence yet cut down on the resistance.

Just a thought.
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Unread 09-17-2002, 03:57 PM   #114
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No, the flow dynamics would be different: the water against the channel walls would flow right through.

I know that it's restrictive, but as a replacement to the TC-4 turbulators, it should all come out the same.

On the other hand, if it is restrictive, it would concentrate the flow around the channel walls, where it needs to be. The result would be a block that is restrictive, but that performs better.

Hey, it's just a mod. I'd never build a block this way anyways. If I did, I'd put "steps" right on the channel walls (as hard as it would be to mill).
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Unread 09-17-2002, 06:26 PM   #115
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As for the laminar flow next to the wall with your cones placed the other way... I think that would be offset by the water trying to expand into the empty spaces then forced back towards the walls.

Dont know... would be an interested experiment for both

Too bad I dont have the money or the time to try it out myself.

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Unread 09-17-2002, 07:43 PM   #116
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My TC-4 with #12 solid copper wire tubulators. Water will be able to travel through and around the wire tubulators.
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Unread 09-17-2002, 08:20 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by DodgeViper
My TC-4 with #12 solid copper wire tubulators. Water will be able to travel through and around the wire tubulators.
Dodge you're killin me! I removed the turbulators on your findings as I have the 1250 pump installed. Please let me know how the springs work out! Where did you get those? Me likes the look, don't let Danny see that!
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Unread 09-17-2002, 08:38 PM   #118
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I made them. I thought you were using a spir@l? I removed the standard tubulators as I felt they restricted the flow using the 1250. Now I am not sure that these spring tubulators will work any better, but I know they will not be as restrictive and should add turbulence to the flow.

Last edited by DodgeViper; 09-17-2002 at 08:45 PM.
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Unread 09-17-2002, 09:17 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by DodgeViper
I made them. I thought you were using a spir@l? I removed the standard tubulators as I felt they restricted the flow using the 1250. Now I am not sure that these spring tubulators will work any better, but I know they will not be as restrictive and should add turbulence to the flow.
How did you make them? Did you just wind thin copper? I have the Spiral and the TC-4, the TC-4 performs better.
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Unread 09-17-2002, 11:03 PM   #120
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I am making a few feet of the spiral copper for Danny at D-Tek and can make you some as well. PM me with your address and I will get some of the coils in the mail.
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Unread 09-18-2002, 07:03 AM   #121
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If this is succesfull, you could try adding these coils to the spiral.
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Unread 09-26-2002, 11:39 PM   #122
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It seems that nikhsub1 got to try the copper coils before me and as of tonight things may be looking on the bright side. Nikhsub1, please report your results once your AS3 has had a chance to settle in.
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Unread 09-27-2002, 07:13 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by DodgeViper
It seems that nikhsub1 got to try the copper coils before me and as of tonight things may be looking on the bright side. Nikhsub1, please report your results once your AS3 has had a chance to settle in.
This is the 3rd day of having the springs in, I believe my temps are 1C - 1.5C BETTER than with nothing in the channels of the TC-4. I sit with a case temp of 27C, full load temps jump between 41C - 43C. Without the springs my temps sat at 44C steady. This is at (XP 1600) 1871Mhz, 2.0V.
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Unread 10-02-2002, 06:19 PM   #124
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*Bump*

Guys, what is the update on the springs? Any better/worse than before? How do the springs work vs. turbulators vs. nothing?

Sorry, but I am very anxious to hear about MORE results
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Unread 10-02-2002, 10:22 PM   #125
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With the TC4 I got my best temp without the stock turbulators installed using the Eheim 1250. Nikhsub1 also removed the stock turbulators and had better results. I then made the copper coils. Nikhsub1 is reporting 1c-1.5c better cooling with the coils installed over an open channel. I am still waiting for parts to do my testing. It's going to depend on what pump you are using whether you going to see a difference. We both use the 1250 high volume pump. The coils have not been tested using a smaller pump. Nikhsub1 did report that while using the stock turbulators his 1048 pump out performed the 1250 because the stock turbulators were causing to much restriction for the 1250 pump to shine. Currently with the coils the TC-4 using a 1250 pump is out performing any other arrangement with stock or open channels.

Updated photo of the newer coils using smaller wire and less coils.
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