Using hydrogenbombs in space

[PlawsWorth]

Question: Are there any collage guy or other guy who really knows what happens if you where to use a hydrogenbomb in space? I have heard that due to the fact that there is no oxygen in space the bomb only creates an electric shockwave that disables all electronic stuff.

Q#2: Are there anyone here that has education within the areas of explosives?

No, i'm not a psycho guy, I just watched Deep Impact recently and started to think.

[beav]

don't they already have those neutron bombs which give off similar ammounts of EMP that a nuke does...without the massive destructioN? although i think it still emmits deadly radiation.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by PlawsWorth
Question: Are there any collage guy or other guy who really knows what happens if you where to use a hydrogenbomb in space? I have heard that due to the fact that there is no oxygen in space the bomb only creates an electric shockwave that disables all electronic stuff.

Q#2: Are there anyone here that has education within the areas of explosives?

No, i'm not a psycho guy, I just watched Deep Impact recently and started to think.

There would be heat emitted, as the reaction is exothermic, but don't ask me where it'd go! Since the bomb is made of some material, it would spread out very quickly.

The EM pulse would still be there.

It certainly wouldn't be a fiery explosion, that's for sure.

[Rob C]

Originally posted by beav
don't they already have those neutron bombs which give off similar ammounts of EMP that a nuke does...without the massive destructioN? although i think it still emmits deadly radiation.

I don't think they ever actually made the neutron bomb - I think it was just an idea or plan on someone's drawing board, and as soon as the public caught onto it (back in the Cold War), they protested en mass and forced the govt. not to develop it. I may be wrong - maybe someone did make one - but that's what I remember from my history lessons (it's weird to think that events of just 10 or so years ago gets taught in 'history' lessons).

I think the scary thing about neutron bombs was that they emitted lots of high-energy neutrons which would pass through material like armour on tanks etc, but get absorbed by the human body causing fatal damage or something. Basically you could detonate one above an enemy army, kill all the troops, and because there was no radiation afterwards (unlike nukes), you could just move in and take all the tanks and stuff that were now just sitting there with dead people in them. Nasty. I hope no-one ever does make one of those

[Joe]

theres already been billions of trillions of hydrogen bombs set off in space... Stars.

[gmat]

If by neutron bomb you mean "fusion bomb", then most nuclear weapons can apply. They use the (uncontrolled..) fusion of H atoms to produce He.
Joe is right, that's what the stars are made of.
The reaction requires high amounts of H, which is present (scarcely, but enough) in the atmosphere and helps fueling the blast.
In space where there is, well, nothing, i doubt the blast would be so powerful. But if the bomb carries its own supply of hydorgen, you *would* have a fiery expanding "ball".

Foot note: our own stupid president (J, Chirac, nearly as stupid as Bush Jr) set up a campaign in 1995-1996 to try out our latest nuke arsenal in Mururoa archipel. The bombs were H bombs indeed, and the underwater blasts were quite powerful...
foot note #2: the first bombs (those released on Hiroshima and tested in the USA on real human beings...) were fission bombs, based on breaking plutonium atoms. H bombs are still based on this reaction to 'kickstart' the fusion reaction.

[Joe]

yeh the french liked blowing up bombs just up to a few years ago... damn frenchies

[gmat]

Actually J. Chirac stopped the tests because the World was against us, and maybe 90% of the French population wasn't too 'hot' about blowing nukes. As he wanted to get re-elected, he changed his strategy and went all the way to showing his balls to paparazzi during his vacation. That worked (you guess it, i dont like him...)

[Joe]

hehehehe

well I dont like Bush Jr., so I guess we both dislike stupid people hehehehe

[beav]

a neutron bomb is differen than an H bomb.

an H bomb is fission and fusion. fission reaction gives enough energy for H to fuse into He(?)

Neutron bomb only has a small explosion , but emmits high speed/energy neutrons, and a huge EMP, leaving buildings and structures intact, but life dead.

[gmat]

Well, high speed neutrons are a byproduct of some nuclear reactions. Here in France they tried to build a nuke reactor which could re-use those neutrons, by splitting plutonium atoms IIRC. The result was more uranium which in turn could be used in a conventional reactor to give plutonium... and so forth. They called it "surrégénérateur" which would mean over-generator since the process feeds itselff and "produces" matter.
They built it, performed tests and everything went well.The problem was, no one, and really *no one* could predict what would happen if *something* went wrong. Specialists predictions were ranging from a simple shutdown to the end of known universe.
That scared authorities off a bit.
So they eventually shut it down, that was about 10y ago. The project dated from the 70's. It was called "superphoenix" - from the legendary bird which could raise from its flames...

Aside from this, modern nuke weapons produce neutrons. They tested such weapons indeed, and it resulted that "free" neutrons wouldnt go that far... So big deal. What's important is the fusion reaction, which is partly fueled by the fission, partly by free neutrons, until everything is cooled off and has lots its energy.
Pure EMP weapons exist, the british have even field-tested some of them with success. Those were EMP guns though, i dont know about bombs.

[jtroutma]

Gmat:

I would like to hear some more about this "surrégénérateur" project becuase from what you are explaining, this process "makes" matter? Well, how can it create something from virtually nothing? I guess I am just confused.

Other than that, nukes release three types of radiation when they detonate; Alpha, Beta, and Gamma radiation. The Alpha and Beta radiation is only left over matter of like neutrons and protons. This is the stuff that can be stopped by radiation suits. Gamma radiation is the nasty stuff, where being pure energy, can pass straight through most materials (except 50' of concrete).
NOTE: it has been years since I did all those reports on nuclear fission and Atomic Bombs so I might have something wrong

One last thing that I can say is that we are constantly being bombarded by radiation from space.

[gmat]

Originally posted by jtroutma
Well, how can it create something from virtually nothing? I guess I am just confused.

Actually it does not "create something from virtually nothing" But really it produces more fuel than it consumes (about 25%, out of real life experiments), thanx to "fast neutrons". As i am not a nuclear scientist i'll point you to interesting references:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ne/fasbre.html

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/thyd/ne1.../project5.html

For more try a search on "Fast Breeder Reactors".
What's interesting is instead of using water as conventional reactors do, "breeders" use liquid sodium... That's the main reason why those reactors where never used at full scale. (hot sodium + air = boOm... combine that with the fact no one knows what happens when those things explode...)

One last thing that I can say is that we are constantly being bombarded by radiation from space.

True, but at a very small fraction of what one would get in space... Thanx to upper atmosphere (ozone layer..) we get very few alpha rays, almost zero beta rays, and no gamma ray. Or else there would be no life out there... Gamma rays are lethal, even at small doses.
Going to a mountain trip (or skiing...) will expose you to ~10x times the normal dose of alpha radiation, due to altitude.

(edit) one more link, a more political / social point of view, very interesting:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ngs/keeny.html

[Joe]

atmosphere (ozone layer..)

nope sorry incorrect. the Ozone layer simply blocks UV rays. Radiation from solar winds and such is almost all blocked due to the strong magnetic field around the planet. There are also many other elements in the stratosphere that help block many harmful particles. Not to meantion the fact that we are sitting on teh bottom of an ocean of Oxygen and other fairly heavy elements in the air that block a good deal of the nasties from space. But the Ozone layer is not that important for anything besides UV radaition.

Ozone offers no gamma, beta or alpha particle protection.

[gmat]

Originally posted by Joe
atmosphere (ozone layer..)

*emphasis* on the (...)
I should have written (etc.) sorry usually those multiple dots mean a continued list of features.
Anyways, yes space radiation is deflected by the magnetic shield (and eventually routed to poles), and partly by upper atmosphere - those UV that are blocked by ozone are quite harmful (well, deadly) as well. And that is particle protection, unless you consider that photons are not particles....
NASA is also studying other upper layers, like stratosphere, and their interaction with sun winds, etc. Ya know, during boreal aurorae, upper atmosphere blocks a lot of stuff.
BTW ozone *is* important to life on earth

ah we've gone astray, the topic was "nuke bombs in space". Oh well, this is "random nonsense" anyway.

(getting back to my mad scientist experiments...)

[PlawsWorth]

well my little questions started a quite the reaction... Anyway, I just wanted to tell you all that I really hate icq and i'm stupid as hell...

[Joe]

Wasnt saying that Ozone isnt important, but UV is a walk in the park compared to a constant bombardment of gamma or beta radiation from the sun.