Need advice on water cooling set up

PaperPlate · 10-01-2002, 08:02 PM

Ok, new to watercooling and what not, and I've been following things on the boards for a bit now and searched around on some sites. I learned basically nothing and would like some advice/flames/criticism so I don't end up blowing money on crap that might jack it self up.

I do not want to craft my own block (seems a lot of you guys do that) so I'd go with a Maze3 for the processor. For the chipset I'd use the Z-Chip for the chip set and (maybe) for the graphics card I'd use the Radeon block. Radiator would be the Black Ice Extreme chrome. The reservoir will most likely be aluminum (depending if I can get it shipped to the USA or not (no link sorry)). Pump would be the Eheim 1250 with 1/2in fittings. Also, tubing and fittings would be 1/2in. The fittings would also be chrome. All would be connected using Tygon. Fan will probally be a Papst or two. I also plan on using a desktop, not a tower case.

Now then, for the questions I have and the like:

Is using this combination of aluminum, copper, and chrome going to be a problem? Heard that using additives (would like to know the ones if this is true) or ant-freeze would stop corrosion.
Is this pump to much or not enough for the blocks/radiator? I don't really know much about the whole flow rate thing...
Also, is 1/2in fitting to much? Should I just go 3/8? Whats the difference?
Is using the desktop and not a tower a bad idea? Does it matter for water cooling? Just thought it might because of that thing called gravity but it does have a pump so...I thought I'd ask just in case?

Yes, I'm going for a chrome kinda look and I know this will be more expensive but I like the way it looks.

Now please, flame away and help me out. If this set up is a bad idea, tell me! Please. Thanks guys.

godsdice · 10-01-2002, 08:50 PM

First off, don't watercool the Northbridge. It does nothing and will restrict flow.

As for the metals, mixing copper and aluminum is not good karma. I wouldn't waste money on a metal reservoir anyway and just stick a T-fitting and a bleed tube to get rid of air in the system. Or make your own radiator out of PVC pipe at your local hardware store for a few bucks. Eheims can be run inline or submerged. The chrome is electroplated on the outside of the radiator and wouldn't matter even if it was corrosive.

bigben2k · 10-01-2002, 09:04 PM

Q1 - Is using this combination of aluminum, copper, and chrome going to be a problem? Heard that using additives (would like to know the ones if this is true) or ant-freeze would stop corrosion.

A1 - Yes. Additives will slow down the galvanic corrosion (corrosion from mixed metals), but will not stop it. Check out Kevin's article. In short, use distilled water and Water Wetter. You can certainly avoid using aluminium. If the look is important, that's fine, but you don't need to make that sacrifice: just use chrome paint on a DangerDen res, for example. (tip, tape off a vertical strip, then remove it once painted, so that you still have a visual on the coolant level).

Q2 - Is this pump to much or not enough for the blocks/radiator? I don't really know much about the whole flow rate thing...

A2 - It's fine. you've got a pretty aggresive cooling plan, but you don't state your objective. A 1048 might fit your needs.

Q3 - Also, is 1/2in fitting to much? Should I just go 3/8? Whats the difference?

A3 - If you're going to use an Eheim 1250, 1/2 really won't hurt. For a 1048, 3/8 would be fine.

Q4 - Is using the desktop and not a tower a bad idea? Does it matter for water cooling? Just thought it might because of that thing called gravity but it does have a pump so...I thought I'd ask just in case?

A4 - That's a personal choice. Ideally, you shouldn't let the cooling solution dictate the size/format of your case. You should know though, that a desktop case is very restrictive, and you will be challenged to fit a watercooling rig in it. It's been done, but it's not ideal, nor easy.

Personally, I picked a Chieftec DA-01. It's a very tall (26 inch) tower. My cooling solution has affected my choice of case, but since it will also serve me for cooling experiments, it's not a bad choice: I will use up all the room.

You should first concentrate on what it is that you're trying to do. Some people insist on a small case, so that they can carry their PC around. Some people watercool strictly to quiet down the PC. Some of us more extreme coolers, do it for a massive overclock.

From what you've stated, it seems like you want to create something small, but not necessarily portable. You want to watercool everything, so I'm guessing that noise levels are an issue, and that you have no intention of getting into extreme OCs.

If that's the case, you might consider putting the pump and rad outside of the case, into a separate box. It would allow you to use a standard heatercore, which is cheaper and more efficient.

kenrippy · 10-01-2002, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by godsdice
First off, don't watercool the Northbridge. It does nothing and will restrict flow.

I dissagree. if you're going for an extreme overclock then you'll want the added cooling on the NB. if you're not going to OC then you may get by without it....but it's a sweeter setup if you use one

FRAGN'STIEN · 10-02-2002, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenrippy
I dissagree. if you're going for an extreme overclock then you'll want the added cooling on the NB. if you're not going to OC then you may get by without it....but it's a sweeter setup if you use one

I agree with godsdice. You don't need to watercool the northbridge. I W/Ced mine for awhile and it did nothing but add heat to the loop. If your concerned about the northy heating up just use a after market chipset fan and heatsink. Besides if your going for an extreme O/C you'll want to look into pelts or phase change. You can get a very nice and stable O/C with just the stock sink on the NB.

PaperPlate · 10-02-2002, 10:24 AM

Now, if the reservior is anodized aluminum would that still be a problem?
The reservoir is one of the main things that I do want. Note: Found a picture, as you can see.
The Black Ice Xtreme isn't a good radaitor? I'm going on what Ben said "...use a standard heatercore, which is cheaper and more efficient."
I also thought about the 1048 but I just decided to say the 1250 because I thought I'd go with the most powerful. So, I would most likely go with the 1048 on your recomendation and the simple fact that I have no room for anything in the case. I don't have anything yet so I'm basically going on measurements and pictures.

Thanks for the info on the chipset, guess I won't cool it. I'm basically water cooling just cause I can, also for noise issues. I added a fan onto my current computer and my brother decides to make fun of me because it is to loud (it is pretty damn loud). Now I decide to water cool and he is making fun of me for that, to expensive. Well, what I want to do is to expensive but I basically have the money to spend so, why not? I'm not getting the set up for at least a few months so I'm in no real hurry. Should at least get an idea of what to do an what not to do.

Thanks again guys, you've been a big help.

airspirit · 10-02-2002, 10:40 AM

I guess today is my day to disagree with Ben. Sizewise, the BIXr2 will perform on par with near any heater core, though he is right on one thing: it IS more expensive. If you are going for decent cooling, good looks, and you don't mind the cost, you can not go wrong with the BIXr2.

As far as aluminum goes, just don't do it. Anodized or no, it would give me the jitters. There are plenty of extremely nice res's out there for not much money that are made of acrylic or plastic coated aluminum or such that are safer. I wouldn't trust anything less than a nice sheet of plastic over aluminum components. Call me paranoid.

As far as cooling the NB goes, if you put it in parallel, and you're really gooney on keeping quiet, go for it. It really won't add that much heat to your system, and if you use the 1250, you'll have pressure to spare. Just put it in parallel with your processor, with the CPU getting 1/2" hosing, and the NB getting 1/4" or something. You want most of the flow going to the CPU.

As far as the Chieftec case Ben listed, you cannot go wrong with it. It is absolutely massive and is rugged enough to use as a permanent computer CHAIR if you were so inclined. Go check it out on Newegg. Plus, at $63 shipped, it is an absolute steal right now. Plus it comes with two case fans already. If you want a pic of a really crappy setup in it, look under http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3705 . I chose to mount the BIX sideways in the top and mounting two 120mm fans in push/pull completely shrouded, creating a wind tunnel, isolating all hot air from the rad from my system (and keeping my back room a toasty 90F).

bigben2k · 10-02-2002, 11:06 AM

We're going to agree to disagree, right?

I'll still maintain that the heatercore will give more performance, but since the term "heatercore" might refer to something size anywhere between 4x4 and 12 by 8, I'll give you that a BIXr2 might outperform a heatercore.

An anodized res SHOULD do the trick. Just don't get any scratches in it.

godsdice · 10-02-2002, 01:44 PM

If you want to get rid of the noise of the Northbridge fan, get a Zalman passive heat sink. As long as you have decent airflow through the case it will remove the NB heat sufficiently and silently. Most motherboard chipset fans are very crappy anyways.

10-01-2002, 08:02 PM	#1
PaperPlate Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 19	Need advice on water cooling set up Ok, new to watercooling and what not, and I've been following things on the boards for a bit now and searched around on some sites. I learned basically nothing and would like some advice/flames/criticism so I don't end up blowing money on crap that might jack it self up. I do not want to craft my own block (seems a lot of you guys do that) so I'd go with a Maze3 for the processor. For the chipset I'd use the Z-Chip for the chip set and (maybe) for the graphics card I'd use the Radeon block. Radiator would be the Black Ice Extreme chrome. The reservoir will most likely be aluminum (depending if I can get it shipped to the USA or not (no link sorry)). Pump would be the Eheim 1250 with 1/2in fittings. Also, tubing and fittings would be 1/2in. The fittings would also be chrome. All would be connected using Tygon. Fan will probally be a Papst or two. I also plan on using a desktop, not a tower case. Now then, for the questions I have and the like: Is using this combination of aluminum, copper, and chrome going to be a problem? Heard that using additives (would like to know the ones if this is true) or ant-freeze would stop corrosion. Is this pump to much or not enough for the blocks/radiator? I don't really know much about the whole flow rate thing... Also, is 1/2in fitting to much? Should I just go 3/8? Whats the difference? Is using the desktop and not a tower a bad idea? Does it matter for water cooling? Just thought it might because of that thing called gravity but it does have a pump so...I thought I'd ask just in case? Yes, I'm going for a chrome kinda look and I know this will be more expensive but I like the way it looks. Now please, flame away and help me out. If this set up is a bad idea, tell me! Please. Thanks guys. Last edited by PaperPlate; 10-01-2002 at 08:34 PM.

10-01-2002, 09:04 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Re: Need advice on water cooling set up Q1 - Is using this combination of aluminum, copper, and chrome going to be a problem? Heard that using additives (would like to know the ones if this is true) or ant-freeze would stop corrosion. A1 - Yes. Additives will slow down the galvanic corrosion (corrosion from mixed metals), but will not stop it. Check out Kevin's article. In short, use distilled water and Water Wetter. You can certainly avoid using aluminium. If the look is important, that's fine, but you don't need to make that sacrifice: just use chrome paint on a DangerDen res, for example. (tip, tape off a vertical strip, then remove it once painted, so that you still have a visual on the coolant level). Q2 - Is this pump to much or not enough for the blocks/radiator? I don't really know much about the whole flow rate thing... A2 - It's fine. you've got a pretty aggresive cooling plan, but you don't state your objective. A 1048 might fit your needs. Q3 - Also, is 1/2in fitting to much? Should I just go 3/8? Whats the difference? A3 - If you're going to use an Eheim 1250, 1/2 really won't hurt. For a 1048, 3/8 would be fine. Q4 - Is using the desktop and not a tower a bad idea? Does it matter for water cooling? Just thought it might because of that thing called gravity but it does have a pump so...I thought I'd ask just in case? A4 - That's a personal choice. Ideally, you shouldn't let the cooling solution dictate the size/format of your case. You should know though, that a desktop case is very restrictive, and you will be challenged to fit a watercooling rig in it. It's been done, but it's not ideal, nor easy. Personally, I picked a Chieftec DA-01. It's a very tall (26 inch) tower. My cooling solution has affected my choice of case, but since it will also serve me for cooling experiments, it's not a bad choice: I will use up all the room. You should first concentrate on what it is that you're trying to do. Some people insist on a small case, so that they can carry their PC around. Some people watercool strictly to quiet down the PC. Some of us more extreme coolers, do it for a massive overclock. From what you've stated, it seems like you want to create something small, but not necessarily portable. You want to watercool everything, so I'm guessing that noise levels are an issue, and that you have no intention of getting into extreme OCs. If that's the case, you might consider putting the pump and rad outside of the case, into a separate box. It would allow you to use a standard heatercore, which is cheaper and more efficient. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-02-2002, 10:40 AM	#7
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I guess today is my day to disagree with Ben. Sizewise, the BIXr2 will perform on par with near any heater core, though he is right on one thing: it IS more expensive. If you are going for decent cooling, good looks, and you don't mind the cost, you can not go wrong with the BIXr2. As far as aluminum goes, just don't do it. Anodized or no, it would give me the jitters. There are plenty of extremely nice res's out there for not much money that are made of acrylic or plastic coated aluminum or such that are safer. I wouldn't trust anything less than a nice sheet of plastic over aluminum components. Call me paranoid. As far as cooling the NB goes, if you put it in parallel, and you're really gooney on keeping quiet, go for it. It really won't add that much heat to your system, and if you use the 1250, you'll have pressure to spare. Just put it in parallel with your processor, with the CPU getting 1/2" hosing, and the NB getting 1/4" or something. You want most of the flow going to the CPU. As far as the Chieftec case Ben listed, you cannot go wrong with it. It is absolutely massive and is rugged enough to use as a permanent computer CHAIR if you were so inclined. Go check it out on Newegg. Plus, at $63 shipped, it is an absolute steal right now. Plus it comes with two case fans already. If you want a pic of a really crappy setup in it, look under http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3705 . I chose to mount the BIX sideways in the top and mounting two 120mm fans in push/pull completely shrouded, creating a wind tunnel, isolating all hot air from the rad from my system (and keeping my back room a toasty 90F). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-02-2002, 11:06 AM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	We're going to agree to disagree, right? I'll still maintain that the heatercore will give more performance, but since the term "heatercore" might refer to something size anywhere between 4x4 and 12 by 8, I'll give you that a BIXr2 might outperform a heatercore. An anodized res SHOULD do the trick. Just don't get any scratches in it. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-01-2002, 08:50 PM	#2
godsdice Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 29	First off, don't watercool the Northbridge. It does nothing and will restrict flow. As for the metals, mixing copper and aluminum is not good karma. I wouldn't waste money on a metal reservoir anyway and just stick a T-fitting and a bleed tube to get rid of air in the system. Or make your own radiator out of PVC pipe at your local hardware store for a few bucks. Eheims can be run inline or submerged. The chrome is electroplated on the outside of the radiator and wouldn't matter even if it was corrosive.

10-02-2002, 10:24 AM	#6
PaperPlate Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 19	Now, if the reservior is anodized aluminum would that still be a problem? The reservoir is one of the main things that I do want. Note: Found a picture, as you can see. The Black Ice Xtreme isn't a good radaitor? I'm going on what Ben said "...use a standard heatercore, which is cheaper and more efficient." I also thought about the 1048 but I just decided to say the 1250 because I thought I'd go with the most powerful. So, I would most likely go with the 1048 on your recomendation and the simple fact that I have no room for anything in the case. I don't have anything yet so I'm basically going on measurements and pictures. Thanks for the info on the chipset, guess I won't cool it. I'm basically water cooling just cause I can, also for noise issues. I added a fan onto my current computer and my brother decides to make fun of me because it is to loud (it is pretty damn loud). Now I decide to water cool and he is making fun of me for that, to expensive. Well, what I want to do is to expensive but I basically have the money to spend so, why not? I'm not getting the set up for at least a few months so I'm in no real hurry. Should at least get an idea of what to do an what not to do. Thanks again guys, you've been a big help.

10-02-2002, 01:44 PM	#9
godsdice Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 29	If you want to get rid of the noise of the Northbridge fan, get a Zalman passive heat sink. As long as you have decent airflow through the case it will remove the NB heat sufficiently and silently. Most motherboard chipset fans are very crappy anyways.

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