Micro pin block

[Blackeagle]

Any word yet from the supplier on your motherboard?

[Volenti]

Originally posted by Blackeagle
Any word yet from the supplier on your motherboard?

I have all the gear almost ready to go, just doing my standard 24h leak test, I'll post an update tonite when I fire it up.

[Spamz0r]

yay sounds good

[Volenti]

Ok an update;

Ok, I've got an ASUS A7N8X deluxe, with an XP 2100b (AIUHB 0302TPUW) and some various sticks of ram.

so far I've got it up to 2340mhz with 1.7v (13x180) using a 256meg stick of kingmax pc2400 in sync mode.(relaxed timings)

as I feared the ASUS probe software only uses the in-socket thermister, so it's largely useless, however from my testing it looks like the bios uses the on-die diode, so there's hope yet that there's a program floating around that can read it from the bios. (if anyone knows of one give me a buzz)

but for shits and giggles the ASUS pc probe reports a load temp of 5-7 degrees (c) above water temp.


I feel that it has some more left to give, however this ram is definitly at the limit and the mobo refuses to boot if I try to run the memory out of sync (at this high FSB) so I'll have to get my hands on some better ram

[Volenti]

update, I've found out that MBM with an updated DLL can directly read the t-bred's in die diode, so far so good.

After aquiring an older stick of corsair XMS 3200 (cas 2.5) I've settled on speed of 2.362gig, 175x13.5,1.85v for the waterblock testing.

The setup is an iwaki MD 20RZ pump with evaporative cooling and a 20L res(with my airconned room temps stay pretty constant)

The fist thing tested was the micro pin block, still in "original" condition from when I made it despite thinking of ways to improve it in the mean time (that will come soon)

With a water temp of 22c degrees the (reported,MBM) idle temp was 29c and load (using cpu burn) was 34c.

Next was my all copper "reference" block, which is based on the WW principle, but with the channels turned 90 degrees.

it handily outperformed the micro pin block, with the same water temp, it's idle was 23c and load was 27c (obviously the on-die diode is reporting a temp somewhat lower than in reality)

With that evidence in hand, I performed the previously thought of mods to the micropin block , pin area was reduced to an area about 2mm larger than the core of the t-bred, 7x6 pins down from the previous 13x9. I also filled either side of the slot under neath the centeral barb with epoxy, reducing the size of the inlet from 3mmx21mm to around 3mmx6mm.

Now I have a far higher volecity jet that is better focused on the pin area, and the removal of the pins outside the "critical" area over the core (where they're doing next to nothing) allow for a more un-obstructed water flow away from the die area.

Now to see if I made it better or worse

The results were nothing short of impressive, it went from loosing to the reference block by 7c, to out performing it by 1c

not bad, not too bad at all

[hara]

How come is this? PIcs before and after pls!

[bigben2k]

What's your "reference block", the first one? Do you have any results from a popular commercial block (that BillA reviewed), so that we can gauge more accurately the performance?

[SysCrusher]

Impingement of some sort does alot for even a basic simple water block. The higher the velocity and pressure the better, up until flow starts to suffer anyways with smaller nozzles. The height or distance doesn't seem to matter to much or atleast what we can visually see anyways as long as the distance isn't to great. The smaller the distance the better but it's a small gain. You have roughly the same results as I have found. With your awaki pump and and a little bit of tweaking, you probably see better results than I did with my hydor.

Trick is to balance it just right with the block design you chosen and you should be doing better than the best block out there. I have a feeling morphling's block is the one to watch closely.

[Volenti]

This is what I did to the micropin block, aqua blue is the area of the inlet jet, red is the outline of the T-bred core underneath.

before;



after;



This is the "reference" block I used, modified from my old "carved out" block, which was always a consistant performer. The BP is ~2.5mm thick.

[BillA]

every DIYer in the world has got to go nuts looking at Volenti's work

good show Volenti

[Gulp35]

Volenti Are you planing on making any of your blocks for the public?

Do you have any guides on how you made your "carved-out block"?

Nice work btw. Volenti.

111 more posts till 666 BillA (don't take this as a bad thing I am just noticing a peculiar fact)

[SysCrusher]

Any smaller than that and you won't see much of gain. Maybe round the corners of the nozzle so that it's an eclipse might help a slight bit.

[G33k]

Have you considered rotating the pins through 45 degrees like this :



Obviously, you'd want to modify the layout a little. I would imagine that you'd get more turbulence amongst the pins this way... ?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by unregistered
every DIYer in the world has got to go nuts looking at Volenti's work

good show Volenti

If they don't I would sure like to the their work! Looking real good!

[davidzo]

Originally posted by G33k
Have you considered rotating the pins through 45 degrees like this :



Obviously, you'd want to modify the layout a little. I would imagine that you'd get more turbulence amongst the pins this way... ?

Yes, somebody also thought of this idea, take a look at this german cooler:



Its the K4.2 from Cooling solutions. The earlier versions K4 and K4.1 were bigger and had a few more cuts, but the K4.2 now is so much optimized in size an performance that you can't make the waterflow or the performance even better.
This pin design is a good solution for a waterblock, but not the best.
In my opinion, another technologie is a better way:



This cooler is called UCD (universal cooling device) and ist also from B@mbi from Cooling Solutions (Germany): http://www.cooling-solutions.de/
It uses a microchannel Technologie which makes the laminar glide layer (do you call it so in english? in german its: laminare Gleitschicht) much smaller because of the many sharp micro corners in every channel. The water flows in every single channel against the pure copper of the first corner an then a few milimeters again and so on, which makes a very big water pressure but a superior cooling result. The UCD ist much smaller then the K4.2 but more powerful.
I think that is an argument for this Technologie.

-please don't laugh because of my deplorably english, i'm only a german guy from Hamburg

[BillA]

nice design davidzo
strange that only the Innovatek Rev.3 ever made it over here

is the US market so small as to not be worthwhile ?
strange

[Puzzdre]

is the US market so small as to not be worthwhile ?

Think that US market is considered too big and clogged with similar products so nobody wants to try anything funny and loose money. Too bad, cos' some healthy competition in this area could bring us only good...on the both sides of the puddle...

Cheers!

[BillA]

I would think Cathar's success with his White Water wb would put paid to that notion
(he's had duty problems with a Bentley, had to settle for a BMW stretch 7)

there is always room at the top

but sure, for an 'also ran' there is little point

[Puzzdre]

Originally posted by unregistered

there is always room at the top

Cannot agree with you more!

[davidzo]

Originally posted by unregistered
nice design davidzo
strange that only the Innovatek Rev.3 ever made it over here

is the US market so small as to not be worthwhile ?
strange

I don't like Innovatek products very much. Maybe their products have a relatively good performance, but the quality is very bad.
Have you ever seen a 2 years old Rev.3 which has been used every day from inside? - Full of corrosion and oxide
no, really, for myself Innovatek is one of the worst watercooling companys in germany.

I don't know how big the US market is, but i can estimate

look on the ahop homepage, if you can read German: "Versandkosten für versichertes Paket ins Ausland:
Nur Vorkasse möglich = 15,50 Euro"

That means something like:
Forwarding expenses for insured package to other Countries: We only ship after the money reached us = 15.50 euro

the store


Also American or other water cooling produkts don't reach Germany. Why? Yes, we have many small Water cooling Companys, but a little more Possibilitys for a Decision would be interesting.
The onliest water cooling companys in germany which don't produce in germany are the following: Senfu, Thermaltake, Go-cooling (IceRex), Atotech, Swiftech


@Puzzdre: I cannot agree with you. I really think there are some German coolers which can be very interesting for the American market. The coolers from Cooling Solutions aren't just "anything funny", they are the best quality i know of water blocks! which can easily be seen in the first pic (K4.2), look at these small but sharp and clean Edges... this coolers are Quality and you'll never loose money because this coolers probably will live longer than your PC.
Of course these coolers aren't cheap, i think they are the expensivest in germany...

[Puzzdre]

Davidzo, you didn't understand my post the right way, I think that it would be GREAT that we have some more choice here (blocks from US and wider here in EU), and to place some good products from here to US market.

...'anything funny and loose money'....I wasn't referring to the actual product, but on somebody who will risk the money to produce a waterblock and try to place it to the US market, which is large and filled with various similar products - I think that's risky. (and I wrote funny)...

Hope this reveales what I wanted to say here some more...

Cheers!

PS, as for German wblocks on the market, hell, I'd really like to have the chance to buy it here in Croatia! And for the quality and price, I've never seen a commercially available quality product that is cheap.

There's a saying here 'I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things', and it's very very true.

Do a search here on the forums for Cathar's block, you'll find lots of info. There's a original thread on OCAU, but I think you'll have to register to the forums...I don't have a link, maybe somebody can help here...

[pippin88]

Yep you do have to register but the link is:

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...threadid=95955

[Puzzdre]

Found it, if you decide to register, here's the link:

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...t=cathar+block

[Puzzdre]

Thx pippin88,

and Volenti, sorry for the hijack of the thread, back OT I hope...

[Quickmcj]

Aqua-computer is rather nice.

Good quality, good design and good performance.