Nitrogen Atmosphere Cooling - Page 2

Emperor Que · 03-15-2003, 04:14 AM

Sorry MadDogMe I kinda misinterpreted your post, but it's hard to explain but the cylinder is accually quite easy to open and there's a lot of room to get in there and fix and or re-mount somthing.

It's got a 16inch diameter opening so it's lots of finger room.

MadDogMe · 03-15-2003, 04:54 AM

Soory I did'nt read through the whole thread, I though you'd use a normal case 'airtightened'. I still think it's severe overkill though

, just dip it in some cooled 'flourinert'...

bigben2k · 03-15-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by myv65
Three to five psi is way more than needed to keep ambient air out of the system. Heck, a few inches of water would be more than enough pressure.

My point exactly.

Madogme: do you know the price of Fuorinert? That would be overkill. This N2 idea is actually feasible, and should be relatively cheap.

I'm still not convinced on how you'd get it filled in the first place, without leaving a fairly high level of humidity. Also, I just can't see past using a dessicant, without compromising the sealed environment, but using a dessicant would be a requirement, just because the system has to be filled.:shrug: (I'm in a loop!)

Emperor Que · 03-15-2003, 12:21 PM

Well I’m fairly confident that if I place my suction point at one end of the cylinder and the input of the nitrogen on the opposite side and allow the nitrogen to purge the system I’m confident that I can get most of the humidity out. The other thing is that if I use a phase change system due to the fact that I’m not placing the evaporator unit Directly onto the heat source eg. CPU then most of the condensation if any will collect onto the Evaporator Radiator unit and not so much frost up on my mother board right? Then I can make a simple Drip tray or something along that line.

I think the desiccant might need a few hours to collect the unwanted moister once the Nitrogen environment is filled. But time is something I have lots of. Kinda

MadDogMe · 03-16-2003, 03:28 AM

$75 gallon I think...

Price to effort I think it's o'kill but I'm not putting you down for trying it, don't get me wrong...

I'd stick with neoprene myself though...

Alchemy · 03-16-2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skulemate
I'm not sure I follow... is there some cost for air that I don't know about?

Nitrogen gas is safer to transport than air. It's by far the most common gas bought and sold in industry and elsewhere (anyone needing a lot of compressed air just buys their own air compressor), and since it's typically collected as a byproduct of a more useful chemical reaction, its price of collection and purification should be comparable to air.

All I'm saying is I don't know if air is cheaper, and I don't see any reason to say it is or isn't.

Alchemy

saton472 · 03-17-2003, 10:24 AM

you should proboly use a dense gas because dense gas usually will transfer heat better. im just thought id throw a new facter in to the gas choice question. if im wrong tell me i wont hate you for it

airspirit · 03-18-2003, 05:52 PM

Um ... something about this idea gives me the heebie jeebies. Wouldn't it be easier and less disaster prone to just insulate the thing normally? I understand the r33t factor, but .... I don't think this is going to be as wonderful in the end as you thought. As a pet project it might be fun, but as far as practicality goes, holy mother of GOD, Batman!

Plus, your ports on your cards and connecters will leak gases like no tomorrow. How are you planning on preventing that? How about your CD drive? That'll leak gasses. Floppy drive? Yup. Are you never planning on using any kind of peripheral with this bad boy?

Emperor Que · 03-18-2003, 07:03 PM

“Will this thing leak?” “Navigator I do not leak, you leak remember.”
Quote from: Flight of the Navigator

I’m using Military plugs for most of my connections, Atx, !2v 5v system and for my video, and audio. It’s a plug designed to be mounted to a bulkhead and maintain pressure. As for my hard drive I’ll be basically cutting a rectangular hole and then seal it with Silicon and Amp tape also known as Da Flex St250. It’s a product that bonds to it’s self. I admit that some connections will be tough but I’m confident that I can get a good seal, even if it leaks 1psi/12 hours or so It’ll would still be good. I can cool my Cpu, Gpu and volt reg all in one environment and no condensation. As long as I keep positive pressure regular air won’t get in therefore no condensation.

Emperor Que · 03-18-2003, 07:10 PM

As for the different Gas I opted against using a denser gas cause Nitrogen is very thin which means it heats up quicker and releases heat quicker. A denser gas would hold onto the heat. As far as I know, I’m not an expert or anything on gases just that’s what I remember from science class. I could be totally wrong, correct me if I am, and suggest another gas that I could use. A denser gas would be sweet for lighting effects.

As for the cd-rom question I missed it sorry but I plan on using a usb 2.0 kit for my cd-rom.

Arcturius · 03-18-2003, 09:43 PM

I wasn't able to find anything on 'Da Flex St250' with a quick Google search.
Is it a non-sticky highly deformable material, like some sort of closed-cell sponge (is that an oxymoron?), or is it more similar to mastic tape? (3M branded tar, useful for weatherproofing electrical connections

)

Oh, and for the really important question

: what context is your use of que from? Is it pronounced 'queue' or 'kuh'? I know it's a word in the so-called 'romance languages', but I've never seen it capitalized before.

Alchemy · 03-18-2003, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Emperor Que
[b]As for the different Gas I opted against using a denser gas cause Nitrogen is very thin which means it heats up quicker and releases heat quicker. A denser gas would hold onto the heat.[/qb]

??

Sigh.

For any chemicals you might use that are well into their gas phase at atmospheric, near room-temperature conditions, the convective heat transfer properties will be quite similar. Equally terrible.

Nitrogen is as good as any other gas. If you're serious about using a decent heat transfer medium, dip the mobo in some sort of nonconductive noncorrosive low-viscosity liquid, which is what I think MadDogMe suggests. Expensive as all hell, but pretty goddamn l33t.

Otherwise, stick with your nitrogen thing.

(or air)

Alchemy

Hallis · 03-18-2003, 11:18 PM

My question is,, Isnt nitrogen highly combustable? If i remember correctly the Hindenburg was filled with Nitrogen because the USA wouldnt sell any Helium to germany because of the war. And static electricity (so they say) sent that down in a giant fireball. And i know there will be alot of static and real current in the case.. especially coming from the PSU fans.

Emperor Que · 03-18-2003, 11:57 PM

Actually the Hindenberg was full of hydrogen, which is very combustible. “Hydrogen gas was used in lighter-than-air balloons for transport but is far too dangerous because of the fire risk (Hindenburg).” http://www.webelements.com/

Nitrogen is only explosive when it’s heated, it combines directly with magnesium, lithium, or calcium. When mixed with oxygen and subjected to electric sparks.

And I hope not to have magnesium, lithium, or calcium anywhere near my cylinder.

Emperor Que · 03-19-2003, 12:07 AM

Arcturius I only know it like Amp tape or St250, but ya it's mostly used as a Elertrical sealant or as just a general sealant. It bonds to it's self after a few minutes, and is somewhat like a heat shrink that doesn't shrink but when u wrap it around it's self it bonds and walla (I guess).

As for the name I wanted to use Just "Q" in referance to Star trek but it was always taken, so I adapted Que. In French Que means "That" Which I guess it's well I don't know. But when I go to lan parties and my name is Que ppl still say it like Q so it's different but the same.

airspirit · 03-20-2003, 10:01 AM

For all the money and effort, why not just stick a Prometia on your rig?

I know it's not the most targetted input, and probably one of those things you don't want to hear, but you are going to be taking massive steps to eliminate condensation, and spending a lot of money in the process. In the end, you'll have a closed system that may or may not overheat. All that for condensation protection?

Have you though of just conformal coating everything in your case and then doing regular condensation protection measures? Really: much simpler, much safer, and much cheaper.

saton472 · 03-20-2003, 10:56 AM

But that would take the fun out of it plus then he cant say hay look what i did

MadDogMe · 03-21-2003, 03:56 AM

Quote:

For all the money and effort, why not just stick a Prometia on your rig?

Cause they still cause condensation and TECs are cheaper

...

I know where you're coming from though, might as well launch it into orbit

...

NOT that it stops me wanting you to do it empQ!, I just would'nt myself

...

saton472 · 03-21-2003, 05:12 PM

quick Q. Where are you buying your militery plugs from?

Emperor Que · 03-21-2003, 09:10 PM

The serial # is MS3106E 28-12P. I bought it at a local Electronics store. Was hard to find, and it cost about (Male and female set) $70 bucks Canadian so like .75 cents american. Probably about $30-40 U.S. and since there probably made there they might be even cheaper.

Google wasn't much help when I was looking for them. I'm still looking for a spec sheet on them if i find one i'll post the link.

Emperor Que · 03-21-2003, 09:16 PM

Here's a link lol found it. PDF

http://www.arrayconnector.com/pdf/AR...%20C-5015-.pdf

03-17-2003, 10:24 AM	#32
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	you should proboly use a dense gas because dense gas usually will transfer heat better. im just thought id throw a new facter in to the gas choice question. if im wrong tell me i wont hate you for it __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

03-18-2003, 05:52 PM	#33
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Um ... something about this idea gives me the heebie jeebies. Wouldn't it be easier and less disaster prone to just insulate the thing normally? I understand the r33t factor, but .... I don't think this is going to be as wonderful in the end as you thought. As a pet project it might be fun, but as far as practicality goes, holy mother of GOD, Batman! Plus, your ports on your cards and connecters will leak gases like no tomorrow. How are you planning on preventing that? How about your CD drive? That'll leak gasses. Floppy drive? Yup. Are you never planning on using any kind of peripheral with this bad boy? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

03-18-2003, 09:43 PM	#36
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	I wasn't able to find anything on 'Da Flex St250' with a quick Google search. Is it a non-sticky highly deformable material, like some sort of closed-cell sponge (is that an oxymoron?), or is it more similar to mastic tape? (3M branded tar, useful for weatherproofing electrical connections ) Oh, and for the really important question : what context is your use of que from? Is it pronounced 'queue' or 'kuh'? I know it's a word in the so-called 'romance languages', but I've never seen it capitalized before. Last edited by Arcturius; 03-18-2003 at 09:49 PM.

03-20-2003, 10:01 AM	#41
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	For all the money and effort, why not just stick a Prometia on your rig? I know it's not the most targetted input, and probably one of those things you don't want to hear, but you are going to be taking massive steps to eliminate condensation, and spending a lot of money in the process. In the end, you'll have a closed system that may or may not overheat. All that for condensation protection? Have you though of just conformal coating everything in your case and then doing regular condensation protection measures? Really: much simpler, much safer, and much cheaper. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

03-20-2003, 10:56 AM	#42
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	But that would take the fun out of it plus then he cant say hay look what i did __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

03-15-2003, 04:14 AM	#26
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	Sorry MadDogMe I kinda misinterpreted your post, but it's hard to explain but the cylinder is accually quite easy to open and there's a lot of room to get in there and fix and or re-mount somthing. It's got a 16inch diameter opening so it's lots of finger room.

03-15-2003, 04:54 AM	#27
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Soory I did'nt read through the whole thread, I though you'd use a normal case 'airtightened'. I still think it's severe overkill though , just dip it in some cooled 'flourinert'...

03-15-2003, 12:21 PM	#29
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	Well I’m fairly confident that if I place my suction point at one end of the cylinder and the input of the nitrogen on the opposite side and allow the nitrogen to purge the system I’m confident that I can get most of the humidity out. The other thing is that if I use a phase change system due to the fact that I’m not placing the evaporator unit Directly onto the heat source eg. CPU then most of the condensation if any will collect onto the Evaporator Radiator unit and not so much frost up on my mother board right? Then I can make a simple Drip tray or something along that line. I think the desiccant might need a few hours to collect the unwanted moister once the Nitrogen environment is filled. But time is something I have lots of. Kinda

03-16-2003, 03:28 AM	#30
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	$75 gallon I think... Price to effort I think it's o'kill but I'm not putting you down for trying it, don't get me wrong... I'd stick with neoprene myself though...

03-18-2003, 07:03 PM	#34
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	“Will this thing leak?” “Navigator I do not leak, you leak remember.” Quote from: Flight of the Navigator I’m using Military plugs for most of my connections, Atx, !2v 5v system and for my video, and audio. It’s a plug designed to be mounted to a bulkhead and maintain pressure. As for my hard drive I’ll be basically cutting a rectangular hole and then seal it with Silicon and Amp tape also known as Da Flex St250. It’s a product that bonds to it’s self. I admit that some connections will be tough but I’m confident that I can get a good seal, even if it leaks 1psi/12 hours or so It’ll would still be good. I can cool my Cpu, Gpu and volt reg all in one environment and no condensation. As long as I keep positive pressure regular air won’t get in therefore no condensation.

03-18-2003, 07:10 PM	#35
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	As for the different Gas I opted against using a denser gas cause Nitrogen is very thin which means it heats up quicker and releases heat quicker. A denser gas would hold onto the heat. As far as I know, I’m not an expert or anything on gases just that’s what I remember from science class. I could be totally wrong, correct me if I am, and suggest another gas that I could use. A denser gas would be sweet for lighting effects. As for the cd-rom question I missed it sorry but I plan on using a usb 2.0 kit for my cd-rom.

03-18-2003, 11:18 PM	#38
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	My question is,, Isnt nitrogen highly combustable? If i remember correctly the Hindenburg was filled with Nitrogen because the USA wouldnt sell any Helium to germany because of the war. And static electricity (so they say) sent that down in a giant fireball. And i know there will be alot of static and real current in the case.. especially coming from the PSU fans.

03-18-2003, 11:57 PM	#39
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	Actually the Hindenberg was full of hydrogen, which is very combustible. “Hydrogen gas was used in lighter-than-air balloons for transport but is far too dangerous because of the fire risk (Hindenburg).” http://www.webelements.com/ Nitrogen is only explosive when it’s heated, it combines directly with magnesium, lithium, or calcium. When mixed with oxygen and subjected to electric sparks. And I hope not to have magnesium, lithium, or calcium anywhere near my cylinder.

03-19-2003, 12:07 AM	#40
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	Arcturius I only know it like Amp tape or St250, but ya it's mostly used as a Elertrical sealant or as just a general sealant. It bonds to it's self after a few minutes, and is somewhat like a heat shrink that doesn't shrink but when u wrap it around it's self it bonds and walla (I guess). As for the name I wanted to use Just "Q" in referance to Star trek but it was always taken, so I adapted Que. In French Que means "That" Which I guess it's well I don't know. But when I go to lan parties and my name is Que ppl still say it like Q so it's different but the same.

03-21-2003, 05:12 PM	#44
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	quick Q. Where are you buying your militery plugs from? __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

03-21-2003, 09:16 PM	#46
Emperor Que Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 16	Here's a link lol found it. PDF http://www.arrayconnector.com/pdf/AR...%20C-5015-.pdf

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