Iraq: the military power (technical discussion)

[bigben2k]

We've got a couple of threads going on about Iraq, but I wanted to start one to discuss (only!) the military technology used by everyone involved.

Last night, I caught a TLC show where they listed the ten ultimate weapons. They included:

-Apache longbow helicopter
-that remote controlled jet propelled observation drone
-Amphibious Armored Assault vehicle (AAAV)
-JDAM
-M1-A1 Abrams heavy tank
-airborne laser
-B-2 bomber
-aircraft carrier
-F-22 fighter
-Trident submarine (#1)

The technology is quite astounding, both individually, and as a group.

Please feel free to discuss any of these, including tactics/strategy!

[airspirit]

The subs aren't going to do much here except be a mobile missile launcher. They are going to be loaded down with Tomahawks, both in the tube and torpedo launched varieties, and a few will be carrying nukes in case Saddam gets stupid.

The real show of tech is going to be on the carriers. Anyone that has seen what goes on in a carrier group knows how awesome the teamwork and technology is there. The tanks will just hold the ground until the carriers finish taking out the threats.

[Brians256]

I would disagree, airspirit, but only in part.

The carriers and other missile/artillary launch platforms (including the airplanes) are only a first phase. They take out entrenched threats and supports, but a serious threat is the abilities of mobile units.

Iraqi tanks and other mechanized units are harder to totally wipe out with air power, and need to be wiped up (the remains left over after the airpower and missiles tear through) by the helicopters and tanks.

Then, the helicopters, tanks and infantry need to take out any Iraqi ground troops stupid enough to present organized opposition.

Each of these phases is a serious threat, so I hope people don't get too cocky and think that airpower is going to finish the war. It's an important step, but the grunts on the ground finish the job.

That's my impression, so take it with a grain of salt. I've never served in the military.

[bigben2k]

The same documentary pointed out that a single aircraft carrier has more firepower than a lot of countries!

Here are some specs on the M1-A1 main battle tank:


M1-A1 Main Battle Tank


Length:
32 feet, 3 inches

Width:
12 feet

Height:
8 feet

Weight:
120,250 lbs (combat loaded)

Top Speed:
41 mph

Cross Country Speed:
30 mph

Range:
279 miles cruising
289 miles cruising (no NBC protection)

Operational Range
127 miles (NBC protection on)

Crew:
4

Main Gun:
M256 120 mm smooth bore cannon

Ammunition:
M829/A1 Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Sabot (SABOT)
M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank Multi-Purpose (HEAT)

Other Weapons:
One (1) M2 .50 Cal machine-gun
Two (2) M240 7.62 mm machine-guns

Power:
1,500hp gas turbine
4 speed automatic transmission

*The Abrams tank is the backbone of U.S. armored forces in the Gulf. Designed in the 1970's, the first M-1's were delivered in 1980. The more modern M1A1, which was sent to the KTO from Europe includes a nuclear, biological, chemical (NBC) cooling system to allow the tank to operate in a chemical warfare situation. It is also equipped with night vision, automatic fire suppression systems and, in some cases, reactive armor to defeat armor-piercing weapons. Because of its size, I'm told the C-5 Galaxy can only carry one of these tanks at a time, making overseas shipment of these tanks by ships necessary (note, some pilots say they can get off the ground with two and a limited fuel load).


(source)

[cybrsamurai]

has anyone heard about some new chemical EMP bomb? I caught the tail end of a military tech show that was talking about it. Sounded interesting.

[bigben2k]

Here's the Boeing AH-64D (top), a.k.a. the Apache Longbow, alonside of the next generation Comanche (bottom).



(source)

The specs:
Length:

Height:

Wing Span:
58.17 ft (17.73 m)

16.25 ft (4.95 m)

17.15 ft (5.227 m)

Primary Mission Gross Weight
16,601 lb (7530 kg)

Hover In-Ground Effect (MRP)
Standard Day
13,690 ft (4172 m)
Hot Day ISA + 15C°
12,290 ft (3745 m)

Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP)
Standard Day
9,480 ft (2889 m)
Hot Day ISA + 15C°
7,960 ft (2427 m)

Vertical Rate of Climb (MRP)
Sea Level Standard Day
1,475 fpm (450 mpm)
Hot Day 2070 ft (610 m)
1,255 fpm (383 mpm)

Maximum Rate of Climb (IRP)
Sea Level Standard Day
2,415 fpm (737 mpm)
Hot Day 2070 ft (610 m)
2,370 fpm (723 mpm)

Maximum Level Flight Speed
Sea Level Standard Day
141 kt (262 kph)
Hot Day 2070 ft (610 m)
143 kt (265 kph)

Cruise Speed (MCP)
Sea Level Standard Day
141 kt (262 kph)
Hot Day 2070 ft (610 m)
143 kt (265 kph)




ENGINES

The Apache is equipped with two turboshaft engines each providing 1,265kW. The American AH-64D has General Electric T700-GE-701 engines and the UK Apache is fitted with RTM322 engines from Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca.

WEAPONS

A 30mm automatic Boeing M230 Chain Gun is located under the fuselage. It provides a rate of fire of 625 rounds per minute. The helicopter has capacity for up to 1,200 rounds of ammunition.

The AH-64D is armed with the Lockheed Martin/Boeing AGM-114D Longbow Hellfire air-to-surface missile which has a millimetre wave seeker which allows the missile to perform in full fire and forget mode. Range is 8km to 12km. The Apache has been equipped with air-to-air missiles (Stinger, AIM-9 Sidewinder, Mistral and Sidearm) and 2.75in rockets. Thales Air Defence (formerly Shorts Missile Systems) of Belfast, Northern Ireland has trialled the Starstreak missile on the Longbow Apache helicopter, integrated with the Target Acquisition Designation Sight (TADS).

The Longbow Apache carries the combination of armaments chosen for the particular mission. In the close support role the helicopter carries 16 Hellfire missiles on four 4-rail launchers and four air-to-air missiles.

SENSORS

The AH-64D Longbow Apache is equipped with the Northrop Grumman millimetre-wave Longbow radar. The Longbow fire control radar incorporates an integrated radar frequency interferometer for passive location and identification of radar emitting threats. An advantage of millimetre wave is that it performs under poor visibility conditions and is less sensitive to ground clutter. The short wavelength allows a very narrow beamwidth which is resistant to countermeasures.

The Longbow Apache can effect an attack in thirty seconds. The radar dome is unmasked for a single radar scan and then remasked. The processors determine the location, speed and direction of travel of a maximum of 256 targets.

The Target Acquisition Designation Sight, TADS (AN/ASQ-170) and the Pilot Night Vision Sensor, PNVS (AN/AAQ-11) were developed by Lockheed Martin. The turret-mounted TADS provides direct view optics, television and three fields of view forward looking infra-red (FLIR) to carry out search, detection and recognition and Litton laser rangefinder/designator. PNVS consists of a FLIR in a rotating turret located on the nose above the TADS. The image from the PNVS is displayed in the monocular eyepiece of the Honeywell integrated Helmet And Display Sighting System, HADDS, worn by the pilot and co-pilot/gunner.

Lockheed Martin has developed a new targeting and night vision system for the Apache, called Arrowhead. Arrowhead has a dual field-of-view second-generation long-wave infrared sensor with improved range and resolution. The new system is planned to enter service with the US Army in 2004.

(source)

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by cybrsamurai
has anyone heard about some new chemical EMP bomb? I caught the tail end of a military tech show that was talking about it. Sounded interesting.

It's still classified, but is also known as an HPM bomb (high power microwave). It emits a short but powerful EM pulse, disabling electronic equipement.

I've even heard that it could alledgedly disable a car!

It works by exploding a charge that pushes a core through a coil, again allegedly.

[winewood]

I heard that the charge emitted is that to the output of the hoover dam in one day. Of course this was CNN. They said it could be effective providing it doesnt ground itself immediately. Since I am dumb in electronics, I will just present what I was told...

[airspirit]

Here's some classified information for you (not that secret, but fsck it):

Top speed Abrams tank: >60 MPH

It is the support vehicles that slow it down.

Top speed Nimitz class carrier >55 Knots

They are always the fastest ship in a battle group, and have been known to ditch their pickets and such at the drop of a hat in cases of emergency.

I know a USN Captain that was in a speeding CGN that watched the rooster tail at the end grow higher than the flight deck it was hauling so fast.

I know that air power can't win a war, but it will disable the majority of the opposition before the tanks and troops secure the area. That seems to be the new method of war, and while it costs a fortune (cruise missles for over $1M per pop, for example), it saves US lives.

Is anybody else watching Baghdad burn? If it wasn't raining so hard, I'd be tempted to fire up my charcoal grill and make some burgers. Burgers, beer, and bombs: the new American pastime.

[airspirit]

If you want some bad ass shit, though, look at the EA6B platform ... it'll cook nearly all electronics within dozens of miles. The cockpits are gold plated to prevent the pilot and support crew from being fried. Who needs an EMP bomb when you can just turn out the lights?

[airspirit]

Oh, and many of those copters are equipped with eye sensing targeting systems. They monitor where you're looking and they aim the weapons at that location. I've actually had one of those buggers track me as I was walking by because the pilot was looking at me. Very creepy, and very fscking cool.

If the pilot can see you, he can kill you.

[bigben2k]

F/A-22 Raptor



Primary function: Fighter, air dominance.

Builders: Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Major Subcontractors (partial list): Northrop Grumman, Texas Instruments, Kidde-Graviner Ltd., Allied-Signal Aerospace, Hughes Radar Systems, Harris, Fairchild Defense, GEC Avionics, Lockheed Sanders, Kaiser Electronics, Digital Equipment Corp., Rosemount Aerospace, Curtiss-Wright Flight Systems, Dowty Decoto, EDO Corp., Lear Astronics Corp., Parker-Hannifin Corp., Simmonds Precision, Sterer Engineering, TRW, XAR, Motorola, Hamilton Sundstrand, Sanders/GE Joint Venture, Menasco Aerospace.

Personnel (approximate): USAF Program Office, 350; Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems, 1,100; Boeing, 1,400; Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems; 1,500; Pratt & Whitney, 1,000.

Powerplant:
Two Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines.

Speed:
The F/A-22's speed class is Mach 2.

Armament:
Air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles.

Crew:
Model F/A-22A will carry one crewperson.

Milestones:
Sept. 29, 1990: First flight of Lockheed Martin-Boeing YF/A-22 prototype.
April 23, 1991: Air Force awards F/A-22 Engineering & Manufacturing Development Contract to Lockheed Martin-Boeing team.
Feb. 24, 1995: Air Force approves final design of the F/A-22.
April 9, 1997: Air Force officially names the F/A-22 "Raptor" at rollout ceremony in Marietta, Ga.
Sept. 7, 1997: First flight of the F/A-22 Raptor, piloted by F/A-22 Chief Test Pilot Paul Metz.



(source)

This aircraft is now operational. Check out this fan site (Get your FA/22 paraphenalia too!)

The airframe will be built of titanium, aluminum, composites, steel, and other materials. Titanium and both thermoset and thermoplastic composites will comprise the largest percentage of materials, 30 and 26 percent respectively.

The F-22 is capable of carrying existing and planned air-to-air weapons. These include a full complement of medium-range missiles such as the AIM-120A advanced medium range air-to-air missile (AMRAAM) and short-range missiles such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder.

The F-22 has four internal weapons bays for its main armaments. Two at the bottom of the mid-fuselage and two on the air intake sides. Four underwing hardpoints are mainly meant for fuel tanks on ferry flights, but can also carry a weapon load.

Air-to-air configuration; 2 AIM-9 [Sidewinder] missiles in the side bays + 6 AIM 120C [AMRAAM] missiles. (or 4 of the older AIM 120A [AMRAAM] missiles, which have longer fins)
Top

Air-to-ground configuration; 2 AIM-9 [Sidewinder] missiles in the side bays + 2 AIM 120C [AMRAAM] missiles + 2 GBU-32 JDAM 450 pounds bombs. (or 2 GBU-30 JDAM 1000 pound bombs and no AMRAAM missiles)

External combat configuration; 2 fueltanks + 4 missiles.
Ferry configuration; 4 external fuel tanks + 8 missiles

If the pilot decides to fire a missile, the weapons bay door of the referring missile will open, the mechanism will carry the missile outside the plane, the missile can lock and it is fired. When the missile is away, the ejection system will retract into the weapons bay again and the bay door closes to preserve the fighters stealthyness.

(source)

[bigben2k]

I wouldn't be so sure about those speed ratings on that M1A1 tank, but it might be so for the lighter version (non HD), but then again, it could be a peak speed.

The sighting systems on the Abrams tank allow the gunner to fire at a target, while another target is being acquired. Quite advanced. The Apache Longbow is even worse: it can track multiple targets simultanously.

Of course, all this information is relayed via satellite, or AWACs, and is shared among all "friendlies": that way, you know if your tank isn't seeing something it can't.

[bigben2k]

Picked up on CNN Wednesday, as the 7th cavalry was advancing:

The tanks, jets and helicopters all use the same JP8 fuel.

It's pretty freaky to think about a tank using jet fuel, but then it does weigh 60 tons!

[airspirit]

You're correct: that is peak speed, not constant.

[g.l.amour]

hmm, i thought the raptor was still in a testing fase.

for all ph34ks of military flightsim, check out these movies of a game to come in june. really worth the download i'd say, best looking graphics i ever saw, hard to tell diff between reality.

they also hold my favorite. the A10

http://www.lo-mac.com/movies.php

the f15 merge looks really lifelike.


the fase now seems to be US ballpark, lets see if the battle is in the cities if the (correct me if i'm wrong) 82nd and 101st airborne and the rangers can do what they've been training for. for me those guys are as real assets as all the tech supporting them.

we're forgetting the brits though, lets see what we can dig up for them.

[Brians256]

The Brit special forces are some tough muthas, from what I hear. Urban warfare is never pretty, but we have some good people going to the mat for us. As long as we PROPERLY support them, they can do the job. Nothing like a good politician to screw up a good military campaign.

[thebigNil]

Isnt JP8 diesel that has been refined so that it doesnt have as much sulfer and doesnt smoke nearly as bad as normal diesel?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by g.l.amour
they also hold my favorite. the A10

we're forgetting the brits though, lets see what we can dig up for them.

Ah yes, the WartHog!

A-10/OA-10 Thunderbolt II


USAF Photo courtesy Air Combat Command

General Characteristics
Primary Function: A-10 -- close air support, OA-10 - airborne forward air control
Contractor: Fairchild Republic Co.
Power Plant: Two General Electric TF34-GE-100 turbofans
Thrust: 9,065 pounds each engine
Length: 53 feet, 4 inches (16.16 meters)
Height: 14 feet, 8 inches (4.42 meters)
Wingspan: 57 feet, 6 inches (17.42 meters)
Speed: 420 miles per hour (Mach 0.56)
Ceiling: 45,000 feet (13,636 meters)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 51,000 pounds (22,950 kilograms)
Range: 800 miles (695 nautical miles)
Armament: One 30 mm GAU-8/A seven-barrel Gatling gun; up to 16,000 pounds (7,200 kilograms) of mixed ordnance on eight under-wing and three under-fuselage pylon stations, including 500 pounds (225 kilograms) of Mk-82 and 2,000 pounds (900 kilograms) of Mk-84 series low/high drag bombs, incendiary cluster bombs, combined effects munitions, mine dispensing munitions, AGM-65 Maverick missiles and laser-guided/electro-optically guided bombs; infrared countermeasure flares; electronic countermeasure chaff; jammer pods; 2.75-inch (6.99 centimeters) rockets; illumination flares and AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles.
Crew: One
Date Deployed: March 1976
Unit Cost: $9.8 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Inventory: Active force, A-10, 143 and OA-10, 70; Reserve, A-10, 46 and OA-10, 6; ANG, A-10, 84 and OA-10, 18

(source)

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by thebigNil
Isnt JP8 diesel that has been refined so that it doesnt have as much sulfer and doesnt smoke nearly as bad as normal diesel?

What is JP-8?

JP-8 powers military aircraft and other high performance vehicles and equipment, including tanks, power generators and space heaters. JP-8 is very similar to Jet A/A-1 fuel, which is used in commercial aircraft around the world.

JP-8 is made by refining crude petroleum. Its primary ingredient is kerosene. The primary ingredient in JP-8 is kerosene, usually about 99.8% by weight. In addition to kerosene, JP-8 contains very small amounts of many other substances, such as benzene, and various additives to inhibit icing, prevent static charge buildup, avoid oxidation, and decrease corrosion.

Why does the U.S. Air Force use JP-8?

Between 1976 and 1996, the Department of Defense began converting from JP-4 to JP-8 because JP-8 is safer to use. Planes using JP-8 are much less likely to explode if damaged in combat.

(source)

[Joe]

Ohhhh I thought this was going to be a listing of Iraq's military power:

Some old semi broken Tanks
Camels
some dirty AK47's
some RPG's
more Camels
some rich dudes Mercede's SUV with some Republican Guard dudes inside.
and well one thing they all got... .Teh FeaR of da US

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Joe
Ohhhh I thought this was going to be a listing of Iraq's military power:

Some old semi broken Tanks

...

and well one thing they all got... .Teh FeaR of da US

Not entirely far from the truth!

Iraqi Counterpart-

-Iraq had a considerable array of tanks, most based on Soviet designs. The T-72, of which Iraq has about 500 has a 125mm gun and is equipped with chemical weapons protection. Considered one of Iraq's best tanks, it is still regarded as inferior to the M1 and comparable to the M60 tank used by the U.S. Marine Corps. Specifications on the T-72 are:

Length:
30 feet, 4 inches

Width:
11 feet, 10 inches

Height:
7 feet, 9 inches

Weight:
90,405 lbs (combat loaded)

Top Speed:
50 mph

Range:
434 miles (with external fuel tanks)

Crew:
3

Main Gun:
125 mm

Other Weapons:
One M2 7.62 mm machine gun
One M240 12.7 mm machine gun

In addition, Iraq has a number of earlier Soviet models such as the T-62 and T-54, both of which were developed in the 1960's. Both of these tanks are regarded also regarded as inferior to the M-1 Abrams. Iraq is thought to possess as many as 1,600T-62s and 700T-54s, but exact figures are difficult to obtain given the eight years of war with Iran. Iraq is also suspected of having a small inventory of British Chieftain tanks. During the Iran-Iraq war, tanks were converted to fixed artillery pieces by commanders who dug them into the ground for fear of losing them to enemy attack.

(source)

Note that any tank previous to 1970 doesn't have the capability to shoot while moving.

[phreenet]

Saddam says his troops are brave and valiant for riding out of Baghdad in tanks to fight the Zionist American Occupiers. The troops see those tanks as taxi's out of Baghdad