"water cooling is tons more efficient" I really need some numbers

[HAWKZX]

vaeltaja over at overclockers sent me over here and siad I should ask you guys!!!!

Acually this is for my master's project it's on watercooling and I'm trying to finish up on the intro section with the last of my facts.

"It is generally accepted that water cooling is 20% - 30% more efficient than air cooling."

this is the only quote I could find on the web.

MORE, LOTS , and TONS are not Technical enough for a master project. I was looking for some kind of numbers to throw in there 20-30% sounds to low but that wasn't for water cooling a processor it was for water cooling a frig on a boat .

I though I recalled reading traveling water was 200-300 times more efficient and forced air.

Any one have a good number I can throw in there or know of a source I can look into to get one.

Thanks in advance!

ZX

[murray13]

Well IMHO it is a lot more complex than that. What exactly is your argument. If it is just air vs. water that can be given a number all by itself. If you are tring to make a case for WC a CPU vs air cooling the numbers you will find are about what you stated.

The biggest advantage to WC is it can transfer more heat away from a heat source than air. The problem is what to do with that heat once you get it away from the source.

If you are talking about real world examples it all comes down to money. The more someone is willing to spend on a cooling system the better it will be.

The other thing is noise. A lot of people WC to get rid of noise.

If you are looking for a complete water cooling system that can give you a number for how much better than air.... Here is my personal numbers, not scientific in any way, 22deg room temp, 2100+ running stock speed gives me 43 deg with a ThermalTake Volcano 7+, the same system water cooled with a modded Swiftech 462 and a chiller cooling the water gives 21 deg. Use that as you wish. I don't think it really helps though. Like I said it is a LOT more complex than you first think. I do wish you well on your project. Good luck.

[Skulemate]

Originally posted by murray13
The biggest advantage to WC is it can transfer more heat away from a heat source than air. The problem is what to do with that heat once you get it away from the source.

That's not entirely correct. Once the CPU temperature has stabilized for a given load, it's a steady state problem... that is, all of the heat produced by the chip is carried away by the cooling device. It doesn't matter if the device is a heat-sink and fan or a water-cooling loop... all of the heat produced is removed by both. The water simply acts as a medium through which the heat is transported to a much larger heat exchanger than can be readily fit onto the HSF... the net result is really that you're using a much larger surface area to dissipate the heat produced.

Off topic... I'm not sure this is the most appropriate forum for this question... certainly it's not one of the busier areas.

[Alchemy]

On the off chance your project is not in the realm of science or technology or engineering, I apologize for this post.

Originally posted by HAWKZX
Acually this is for my master's project it's on watercooling and I'm trying to finish up on the intro section with the last of my facts.

Always good to go on a message board to get such info. Credible, cited sources are so overdone.

"It is generally accepted that water cooling is 20% - 30% more efficient than air cooling."

this is the only quote I could find on the web.

MORE, LOTS , and TONS are not Technical enough for a master project. I was looking for some kind of numbers to throw in there 20-30% sounds to low but that wasn't for water cooling a processor it was for water cooling a frig on a boat .

How can it sound too high or too low when you have no idea what "efficient" means in that context? Did it not occur to you to ask that?

I though I recalled reading traveling water was 200-300 times more efficient and forced air.

Yay. You don't know anything about thermal convection. Your advisor must be proud.

Liquids have heat transfer coefficients in the realm of 100 times air. This does not translate to an "efficiency."

Any one have a good number I can throw in there or know of a source I can look into to get one.

Here's a good source:

http://smg.media.mit.edu/people/Judi...Deception.html

Thanks in advance!

No problem. Always glad to take down people feigning authority so poorly they can't even be pressed to spell correctly.

BillA should be able to pick up the pieces.

Alchemy

[Skulemate]

Well...... now that it's been said, I agree with Alchemy. There are quite a few large corporations that have been using water-cooling in servers and the like for quite some time now. Perhaps you should go to the library in search of journal articles written on this subject.

[BillA]

come on fellows, you're being trolled

his MS thesis ?
lol
no, I really don't wanna know the school

[Blackeagle]

Alchemy,

Loved that link you gave. LOL

[BillA]

ditto, good link Alchemy
Thanks Blackeagle, I skipped right over it

[Since87]

Originally posted by Alchemy

Always good to go on a message board to get such info. Credible, cited sources are so overdone.

LOL

[bigben2k]

The clearest demonstration I think can be found in OC's HSF and WB testing results, here

As you can see, the best WC kit has a C/W rating of 0.23, the best WC block is rated at 0.19, where the best P4 cooler is rated 0.16 (@ 51dB) or overall best HSF on simulator 0.22 (74 dB).

Not entirely an accurate picture though, because a watercooled system can handle the peak loads a lot better (someone correct me here, if I'm wrong).


Hawkzx: this seems far too simple a project for a MS thesis. Can you elaborate? I would expect this to come from an engineering level study, not from a Master's.

[HAWKZX]

Originally posted by Alchemy
On the off chance your project is not in the realm of science or technology or engineering, I apologize for this post.

**accepted** I won't go into details.

Always good to go on a message board to get such info. Credible, cited sources are so overdone.

I came here at the suggestion of others, more or less to help me find a site / book that has the numbers for moving water.

The paper isn't about engineering and that is why I came here as one of the guys at overclockers suggested. I got my undergrad in cmgt (construction management). Very far cry from engineering I must say.

One of my old committee members (an engineer now retired) has a book that had the numbers of AL, copper so the only one I am really missing is for moving water.

murray13 said: The biggest advantage to WC is it can transfer more heat away from a heat source than air. The problem is what to do with that heat once you get it away from the source.

As for how water cooling works I understand the general theory, transfer heat into a greater surface area that can be removed over greater time by one of several ways.

If someone knows of a book that will have the transfer rate of heat through moving water that would be of great help. I'm not an engineer, never studied that field wasn't bright enough for that. Also I really need it translated into words I can understand.

btw plz stop flaming me if you can't help or don't want to just don't post a reply and I won't have a reason to return to this site.

again thanks in advance for any help.
ZX

[HAWKZX]

I wanted to thanks everyone for their comments but I believe I found what I needed online when someone suggest that I have a look at the term "Thermal conductivity"

Table T6. Thermal conductivity of water and sediment types (Beaumont and Keen, 1990). Material Water Shale Limestone Sandstone
Thermal conductivity (W/[m·K]) 0.61 1.13 2.929 4.184


thanks for your help
ZX

[BillA]

ok, I admit it
I was wrong (see, not so difficult)
not a troll
just ignorant beyond belief
let's hear it for US secondary education

hey ZX, no problem
we are glad to do our bit to contribute to the demise of our civilization

[HAWKZX]

just have one question... what is a troll in that context anyway? I really don't know, and i see my mayself as rather internet lingo savy.

BTW I really enjoy reading your reviews on OCs.com keep them coming.

[pHaestus]

I had a student that insisted on using the intareweb as the primary collection source for a senior (undergrad) thesis. I was pleasantly surprised that he (a) used EPA technical bulletins and engineering technical documents instead of fluff, and (b) appended them all to the thesis for those not inclined to do a web search.

[deeppow]

ZX,

Late as regards this thread but some basics that would help your search. If you're only inerested in a few phrases for your intro then this post will be of no use to you.

Heat transfer is general divided into 3 areas of study: conduction, convection, and radiation.

"moving water" as you call it falls under the area of convection. Looking covection up in Webster's works fine for a better understanding of the word.

Convection (convective heat transfer) is further divided into natural convection and forced convection. Natural convection is driven by density differences and gravity, buoyancy (same thing that floats a boat). (Fluid velocities in natural convection are low compared to those of forced convection.) Forced convection generally relates to pumping the fluid (gas or liquid) and the pumping dominates the effect of gravity to the point that the effect of gravity is ignored. Your "moving water" for water cooling fits into the area of forced convection.

Maybe that'll help a little for web searches. You should be able to find tons of basic info on the web. Available books can be found also but they'll generally be written for engineering or physisc courses.