Question for the elite...

[MMZ_TimeLord]

I spent some time last night with the system down to make sure the block was sitting on the CPU level. Which may be why my temps were a little elevated... as it turns out, it was... and it wasn't.

The CPU was not sitting quite level. So I corrected that and made the layer of Arctic Silver II a little thinner now that I didn't need as much. And I lapped the CPU (P4 was REALLY not flat at all).

While I was at it, I cleaned up the mating surface on the block on my GPU as well.

After all this and everything was put back together and the system fired up. I let it run with my usual load app (Folding@home) for about 15 minutes, which is more than long enough on MY system to level out the temps.

The temps, when stable were 2°C HIGHER than before. Now I know that people get in trouble for posting temps, etc. But this system has held a consistent temp for the last three weeks. Now it's holding steady 2°C higher than before.

From this observation, I have to believe that the water blocks are picking up MORE heat and the system can't get rid of it.

I am suspecting my pump as the major weak point as I turned the fans on my radiator to full RPM and it did NOT change the temps noticeably.

My pump is very slow as discussed in previous threads and is only about 60GPH with a really small head (like 2 or 2.5 feet)

Does this sound like I'm on the right track? …or am I hallucinating?
:shrug:

[Crosstrack16]

I would think a 60gph pump is too weak for any water setup, as the actual flow rate is less than the stated. I would definitly start by getting a new pump and see what happens. Its probably the cheapest way to start too

[MMZ_TimeLord]

Thanks Crosstrack16...

I'm going to pick up a 340 GPH w/ 1 foot head fountian pump to replace my 60GPH w/ 1 foot head fountain pump. The new one is adjustable like the old one and is fairly inexpensive (around $50) so I will put that in tonight and do some checking.

I'll report back on how it works.

[Crosstrack16]

Just outta curiousity, what diameter tubing are you using?

[KriTip]

I removed my IHS the other day, and my temperatures rose for a while, i now have them the same as before though! It probably is just a seating problem though, or wait for the AS3 to set properly.

I can post a link to some piccies if you are intersted in removing your IHS form a socket 478 chip.

Cheers
Kristian

[MadDogMe]

Seeing as the elite are busy elsewhere I'll answer for you . Try remounting it again, you can pick up or lose a couple of degrees with a mounting...

There is'nt any more heat being picked up. All the heat is picked up always. It's how eficient it's transfered from the CPU to the block to the water that dictates the temps...

[bigben2k]

Ya'll covered it all (MadDog gets an upgrade to "Elite" ), except...

AS takes 48 hours to "settle".

Replacing the pump will help: although the head is actually pretty good, the flow rate is rather low, and the actual flow rate will be significantly lower, which reduces the performance of the waterblock (which WB is it, BTW?).

However, all things being equal, the performance should improve, with a better mount. In this particular case, because you state that you used less AS, I would expect an improvement either way (it's a big assumption, but I'll go with it, for the discussion).

There is a remote possibility that when the block wasn't sitting properly, it may have been sitting close to the CPU diode, throwing measurements off a bit, but that would be a real freak occurence. It certainly doesn't apply with an IHS.

It should be noted that lapping a P4 is a bad idea: although it can be observed that it is not flat, there's a reason for that: under the proper clamping pressure, it flattens out perfectly. That makes it extremely difficult to lap this CPU, because one would have to try to match the same curvature, as the nickel plating is removed, exposing the copper of the IHS (Integral Heat Spreader). This is, IMO, the most likely cause of your temp difference.


So what do you do? If you still have nickel on the corners of the IHS, you could try to continue lapping it, and make the nickel dissapear. If you don't have any nickel left, which would have guided you in the lapping, then you could try it, until you get it right, or just pop it off (at your own risk).

[MMZ_TimeLord]

Crosstrack... my tubing diameter is ½" outer diameter and 3/8" inner diameter (clear vinyl tubing).

My system was built about 4 years ago, before anyone (that I know of) was going to ½" inner diameter tubing.

Ben... same block as I had previously posted plans for here. Not even close to the designs here... simple cross drilled block. (agian, made 4 years ago)

Actually there are TWO of these in the system. One on my CPU and one on my GPU. So I am dealing with TWO sources of heat with one lowly 60 GPH pump.

I did get the 340 GPH pump... that was WAY too noisy and powerful. It would have blown my hoses off or at the very least annoyed the crap outta me. :shrug:

So, I think I will return it for a smaller pump... probably a 90 GPH or 185 GPH... the 90 has a max lift of 4.3 feet and the 185 GPH has a max lift of 4.0 feet. The 60 GPH I have has a max lift of 2.5 feet. The 90 would get me 1.5 times the flow I have now and the 185 would get me a hair over triple the flow. I still want quiet, so I will probably go with the 90 for now and if I have to change it later, I will.

Also, the 60 and the 340 are magnetic drive... the 90 is a direct drive. So I was wondering... are direct drive pumps quieter?

Last but not least, I had only partially lapped the P4 previously, so I finished the process last night and removed all the nickle plating. Only copper showing now... and the clamping force is still MAINLY in the corners of the IHS. I can see that the AS2 is forced thinner there and in the center it's slightly thicker... but it's so thin now I can see the copper color through it AND it's very uniform. (except where noted in the corners)

So far, it seems to be about 3 to 4 degrees C cooler. Again this is letting the system run overnight and observing the temp this morning before leaving for work.

We will see how the 90 GPH pump works out...

[bigben2k]

Good work: that's more in line with what you should be getting.

As for the pump, all designs vary greatly. The direct drives are more energy efficient: remember the johnson pump?

They're not always the quietest, but they're usually quiet enough.

I don't know how much you're planning to spend on that pump, but I would consider alternatives: 340 gph is more in line with what you probably want.

On the other hand, spending any more money on the rig probably isn't cost efficient: you might consider keeping your old pump, if it still works.

[MMZ_TimeLord]

It works, but now with a Overclocked P4 instead of an overclocked PIII Celeron, it's now about 10° C higher on my rig.

I would expect this actually. The PIII Celeron was only a 900 Mhz model overclocked to 1.1Ghz. The P4 is a 2.66Ghz model overclocked to 3.00Ghz. So there is a three fold jump in Mhz and the voltage is almost the same.

I will be returning the 340 pump today in exchange for the 90 most likely. I will post a reply here to let everyone know how it works out.

[Tuff]

This might be a shot in the dark but...

It is possible that when you lapped the CPU you might have not had it completely level...IE...more off one side? But still got it too look lapped level.

If this is the case you will have to use the 4 bolt holes to mount the block and maybe tighten on each side till you achieve the best temp.

I use the bios to set the block...I adjust the bolts until the lowest temp is achieved.

Makes for less errors.


Tuff

[hydrogen18]

MMZ Timelord. If the pump is blowing hoses off i suggest you vent the system to releive the pressure.

[Fixittt]

if hoses are coming off, then I recomend Hose clamps!!!!!!!!!!! Cripies!

[MMZ_TimeLord]

Okay... stop smoking that stuff...

I never said the hoses WERE coming off... I said they might. I have yet to have that happen.

Have a nice day...

[Fixittt]

If I stopped smokin that stuff, then I would have to face reality. And have you taken a good look at reality latley? NO THANK YOU!


Cant have a nice day.... it has been ruined fer me. BLAH!!!!!




But on the topic. My guess is that when the processor was not seated corretly you were getting incorrect temps (LOL....... incorrect temps with a moterboard.. amagine that) Now that the actual enviorment has changed, You should by all accounts see a different temp. Also, have any fans been moved? Slowed down ect? Or is the lapping and reseating ect. all that you have done?

[MMZ_TimeLord]

From the PIII Celeron to the P4 upgrade all that was changed was the Mobo, CPU, RAM... HDs... etc... Not the cooling system... and the Video card remained the same.

The Radiator is completely isolated from the rest of the system and won't pick up any radiant heat from the PC components.

This is when I saw what I felt was severely elevated temps.

Yesterday Afternoon/Evening I removed the CPU block and cleaned it up... (removing AS2 and general trim to get it to sit flat on the CPU. (corners had to be trimmed a bit as it was hitting part of the stock P4 mount bracket.

Pulled out the pump to see what it was doing... thought maybe the flow was turned down (variable inlet valve). It was okay.

Put everything back together after lapping the P4 and with minimal AS2 as previously stated.

So far my temps are about are about 3 to 4 degrees C lower.

My guess is that the CPU block was off a little where it was hitting the P4 HSF bracket (I use the original mounting to hold in my block) and the AS2 was a bit thick.

[beav]

fixittt please respond to e-mail.