question on new system i'm gona be building soonish

[shiltz]

trying to decide on everything for my new system i'm gona be putting together sometime next month and wanted some more experienced opinions on if this will keep my system where I want it for temps.

my new system is gona be an AMD XP 3200+, I also want to water cool the chipset (nforce2), the video card (FX5900 ultra), and 2 7200 RPM HD's, I plan on OCing the CPU and the video card, I know the video card puts out a bit off heat as at idle it's running at 39C, not sure under load but the default overheating warning is 140C so i'm guessing it can get pretty damn hot.

this is what i'm looking at right now:
pump: Eheim 1250
water blocks: maze 4 for CPU and GPU, danger den Z block for chipset, home made water block for HD's
radiator: ?

the radiator is my biggest question, right now my current system (see sig) runs at 23C idle with maze 3's for the CPU's and danger den block for the GPU (that was with the ti4400 in, the FX isn't water cooled atm) with a Eheim 1250 and a BI extreme 2, room temp is 66F (not sure what that is in C) and it's usualy around 28-29C at load.

now with the new system i'll have 1 less CPU but the new one will likely be hotter than a single of the current, the video card runs hotter and I want the chipset and HD's water cooled, will I be able to get away with a smaller rad (DD heater core or BI extreme) and still keep around the same temps or will I need to use a BI extreme 2 for it?

[bigben2k]

Ok, before you get slammed by JayDee...

Your CPU temp can't be 23 deg C, but I suppose you knew that (BTW, the default warning can't be 140 deg C, it's more than likely that it would be 70 deg F, but that's too low. If it's really 140 deg C, then it won't prevent a CPU from frying)

Knowing your water temp would come in handy here.

Your question then becomes: how can I keep the same CPU temp on this new single CPU system, that I had with my dual system?

An obvious question would be: why would you want to, but hey, it's your prerogative

For a new build (assuming you're still holding on to the old system), I always recomend a heatercore, because you'll get more out of them than an expensive BIX, regardless of the model, for the same amount of money.

If you're scrapping the old system, then hold on to the BIX2.

[shiltz]

the default warning of 140C is the GPU not the CPU, I do know the FX's run h.

I don't know what my water temp is but those CPU temps are from the on die diode that the MP's have built in so if they are off I wouldn't think it would be by a large ammount, the board i'm using doesn't even have it's own temp sensor as far as I can tell, it just uses the on die one, and the temps seemed acurate before I went to water cooling so I don't see that the diode's would be wrong now, and at 66F it's not like the ambient temp is warm.

the current system isn't gona be scraped so I won't have the parts from it to use, it will be an new system, i'm not concerned with price/performance ratio, I want the highest performance, and yeah I know the whitewater is a better performing block but the boards i'm looking at don't have the mounting holes (at least the pics of the boards on the manufacture's web site don't have them) so I need to use socket tab hold downs.

i'll try and get some water temps tonight since I don't know of any other easy way of checking the die temp other than the built in diodes.

[sevisehda]

I'm setting up a new system and I'm planning on water cooling just about everything I can strap a drilled out block of copper to. CPU, NB, GPU, HD, if I get bored maybe the ram and mosfets(8rda3). Since the majority of the systems heat sources will be cooled by the water how much airflow do I need through my case(Antec/Chieftec standard). As of now I'm planning on 2 120mm intakes on the bottom. And 3 80mm in the rear(PS + 2 80mm). Is this overkill? Or will throttling down the fans with the rheobus make this more realistic? Thanks for any input.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Ok, before you get slammed by JayDee...

LOL.

Lets see 66F = 18.88888889C. So realisticaly with the top of the line equipment and everything setup very well your looking at about 38C Full Load with just the CPU WB. Your current temps are wrong. Prove they are right before insisting they are.

Your going to loose a lot of flow rate with all that added stuff such as the hard drive blocks and the North bridge and GPU. The CPU will run a little warmer than the old but not by much. The biggest added heat producer will be that GPU. Those things are getting up to 50-70C under load these days. So with the lower flow rates and the added heat load expect the temps to rise some even with one less CPU.

Being you don't know your real temps then the question is really pointless to try and answer anyway.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by sevisehda
As of now I'm planning on 2 120mm intakes on the bottom. And 3 80mm in the rear(PS + 2 80mm). Is this overkill? Or will throttling down the fans with the rheobus make this more realistic? Thanks for any input.

Keep the fans and use the rheobus to turn them down. Better to have TO much cooling power than not enough, especially if you can turn the fans down. It is good to have some airflow over the mobo to cool down the electronic parts. The voltage regulators add a lot of heat.

[trit187]

just out of curiosity, why go for the amd 3200+ over the intel 3.0
amd 3200+ $458
Intel 3.0 $399
(from pricewatch.com)
the intel wins out in proformance tests quite clearly
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2003...lon_xp-22.html

(then again maby I should start a new thread for this debate)

[shiltz]

ok, checked water temp, it's 24C at idle, guess the on die diodes aren't very acurate :\

Originally posted by trit187
just out of curiosity, why go for the amd 3200+ over the intel 3.0
amd 3200+ $458
Intel 3.0 $399
(from pricewatch.com)
the intel wins out in proformance tests quite clearly

i've been thinking about getting a 3.0 or 3.2 pentium 4, not sure yet, on the one hand they definatly are faster, on the other hand i've had nothing but bad luck with intel processors, everyone i've used never seemed to run anywhere as stable as the AMD's i've used, that's why i've pretty much stuck with AMD fo so long, hard to pass up the performance difference though, still got a few weeks before I start ordering stuff to make up my mind though

[trit187]

being an intel fan.. (maby because my dad works there) find it interesting that amd which for a long time largly built its sucess on being a cheaper alternative now is more costly...

[sevisehda]

::cough:: unlocked ::cough::

[trit187]

yeah, but I know a guy who in the next week or so will hopefully be getting one of the NEW pentiums (unlocked) to play around with
is there any way to unlock a retail p4?

[[-Stash-]]

Why get an AMD XP 3200+? A 1700+ or 1800+ will clock up to 2600+ without even having to think and cost about 8 times LESS than a 3200+.

If you must have a barton, then hy not get the 2500+ and OC that? From what has been said recently it would seem that most AMD chips seem to top out around the same place anyhow, and at least the 2500+ is still 3 times cheaper.

3200+ just seems like a waste of money to me.

[shiltz]

ok, think I have decided what i'm gona get now for parts, gona be going with a P4 3.0 so gona be cooling the CPU, HD's, video card and northbridge, here's what i'm gona use for parts, got one question on it though.

pump: Eheim 1250 or Hydor L30
CPU block: whitewater
GPU block: maze 4
HD block: home made
northbridge: ?, noticed they use an odd retention mechinism for the pentium northbridge, are there any chipset blocks made specificaly for it?
rad: 2X D-Tek Pro-Core

i'm gona run it res > pump > CPU > northbridge > rad1 > GPU > HD > rad 2 > res

my question is with that many blocks plus the height it will need to travel in the case, 2 feet, will the pump be enough, I know the heater cores are low restriction compaired to other rads, the HD block i'm making will be 1/2 ID thru the entire thing with 2 sweeping elbows so will be low restriction as well, but the height, CPU, GPU, and northbridge are definatly going to affect the flow by a signifcant ammount, so should I go with a larger pump such as the Eheim 1260, or 2 of the above pumps, or will 1 of the above pumps be sufficent?

[sevisehda]

You're going to need a heavy pump to do all that in series. I would run it like this...

res > pump > rad(see below) > CPU > NB/GPU(parallel) then use the HD to balance the flow between branches.

As for the radiators, I would run them in parallel in order to maximize flow. But there is still so much debate PvS(Parallel vs. Serial) I'd say go with what works best for you.

A little info on head. Its not the height of the loop but the dirrerence between the intake and exaust. I could have a loop that went 50ft high and then came back to pump level with a 5ft head pump because the weight of the water falling equalizes the weight of the water rising. So its good practice to make sure the return to your res is below water level(not necessarily below pump intake though) to make sure the head is 0 for the pump. This makes sure the only resistance the pump has is that of the blocks on tubing.

As for choosing a pump. If you have acces to any pump(with a curve) test your setup and measure the flow. Find the corresponding head on the chart. You can take this head to the curves for the listed pumps and then find one with the amount of flow you want at that head.

[shiltz]

well for the rads I don't want to run them between the pump and the CPU block since from what i've read with the whitewater block you want the max flow you can when it hits the block so the less restriction between the pump and block the better.

anyways even if ran some of it parallel will the Eheim 1250 or Hydor L30 be enough for that setup, if not should I get the Eheim 1260 or go 2 pumps, from what I read in most systems the extra flow rate of the 1260 is usualy wasted and all it does is dump more heat into the water, if 2 pumps would be better which way should I run the pumps, parallel or series, or since i'll have 2 radiators should I seperate the system into 2 seperate loops, CPU on one and the GPU, chipset, and HD's on the other?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by shiltz
well for the rads I don't want to run them between the pump and the CPU block since from what i've read with the whitewater block you want the max flow you can when it hits the block so the less restriction between the pump and block the better.

Doesn't make sence. Flow rate remains the same throughout the system.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by shiltz
well for the rads I don't want to run them between the pump and the CPU block since from what i've read with the whitewater block you want the max flow you can when it hits the block so the less restriction between the pump and block the better.

Before you get slammed by the rest of us...

The flow restriction of the rad will not affect the CPU block: flow is the same at any point in a loop (unless there's a parallel component).

There's a pressure drop across each component, and they all add up to the total pressure provided by the pump. The order is irrelevant.

The total pressure provided by the pump depends on the total restriction of the loop, which will define the actual flow rate.

Pumps in series, that's golden.

[shiltz]

just going by what other people told be when I was setting up my first system, I was gona go pump > rad > CPU so the water would be cooled then go directly to the CPU but was told to put the CPU block after the pump as that's where the flow was the highest and stick the rad somewhere near the end of the system but before the res.

[bigben2k]

Oops, too late

That information was false. Do you want an explanation, with backup?

[sevisehda]

Shiltz I near had a heart attack when you said flow was highest after the pump. Whoever says flow is greatest at X point of a series loop has absolutely no knowledge of physics, and hopefully they're not watercooling.

I'll put it like this. If the flow is decreasing after each component where is all that water going? The only way flow would decrease in a series loop is if your computer was getting a shower, IE a leak.