Maze 4 Production Version Picture

Brad · 05-30-2003, 07:50 PM

pH might have beaten me for the prototype pics, but I got the production version

Brad · 05-30-2003, 07:52 PM

socket a version

Brad · 05-30-2003, 07:53 PM

and the bases

jaydee · 05-30-2003, 08:10 PM

Very good!

mfpmax · 05-30-2003, 08:42 PM

But pH still has the cool name.

yuanlong · 05-31-2003, 12:04 AM

Anyone tried it???
How's the performance compare to maze3??
wouldn't that the inlet be ontop of the die more efficient??

UnloadeD · 05-31-2003, 04:27 AM

Looks to me like they should cut about 2/3's of the threads off those barbs. It would give a lower profile and the fatter part of the tapered threads would be in the top plate. I am glad to see they are using polyprop barbs, they have a much larger ID than standard brass ones, and I don't think they'll stress the plexi as much either. Personally I think they look better too, although most will probably disagree with me on that point.

peace.
unloaded

jaydee · 05-31-2003, 10:49 AM

Wondering if all the extra unused holes are for a TEC.

pHaestus · 05-31-2003, 11:52 AM

I hope so

jaydee · 05-31-2003, 12:52 PM

Selling at $41.99.
http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant...gory_Code=NEWP

GTA · 05-31-2003, 02:58 PM

It doesn't look like it'd be that good for TEC tbh, although I could be wrong, and we won't know for sure until we know the dimensions.

My main worry would be that with a circle or oval, you would need a circle with a diameter equal to the distance from corner to corner of the TEC, ot there would be parts of the TEC that were not covered by the area the water can flow.

This would mean a circle 56mm across for a 40x40 TEC, not accounting for heatspreading anyway.

Thats pretty damn big, and this block doesn't look that large to me.

I'm sure they've thought of this though.

winewood · 05-31-2003, 06:50 PM

I would think the middle of the tec would get cooler than the outside. Plus it seems that there may not be any cooling on the corners. Those corners would accumulate heat, then disperse it to the entire unit, including cover. This would end up taking away from overall performance to my understanding. Just a thought.

So I agree with you GTA. If your pelt cooling, I would think a block that provided flow across all corners and middle evenly may perform better.

GTA · 05-31-2003, 07:26 PM

Its never actually going to be even.

What I was going for, on my block anyway, was to use the natural property of water following the path of least resistance, to aid cooling.

What I figured was that the centre of the block, right over the middle of the core, in my block anyway, had very very little floe resistance, eg, 3mm between inlet and outlet.

As the grooves get bigger, and longer, the flow resistance increases, as does the distance the water has to travel to get out.

if you're cooling an area the size of a CPU core, this is very significant, you want a lot of flow over the core, but less over the mop-up areas, around the core.

The design, without forcing the water, allows this to happen naturally.

With a TEC, you ahve to use a HUGE area, and I don't think the same principals apply.

In my eyes, this is not a TEC block, by any means, the original Maze1 would be a better bet.

jaydee · 06-04-2003, 10:42 AM

Yup, looks like a TEC in one of them there blocks.

winewood · 06-05-2003, 02:22 AM

I know you can put a TEC with anything, but the question you have to live with is why?

30% of the TEC surface appears to have to cooling above it. This doesn't seem to shout out as a tec cooling block.... am I missing something?

jaydee · 06-05-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
I know you can put a TEC with anything, but the question you have to live with is why?

30% of the TEC surface appears to have to cooling above it. This doesn't seem to shout out as a tec cooling block.... am I missing something?

No you can't put a TEC with anything. It has to be designed to mount a cold plate to that can have the required clamping force to properly transfer heat. Which they did with the Maze4. How well it works is anyone's guess untill they tried it. DD probably tested it themselfs and where satisfied with it, or maybe not. Just the fact that the bolt pattern on this block is better and is capable of spreading the load and appling more clamping force may put it ahead of the older Maze blocks even with less cooling surface area.

Pulled this from AMDMB:

Quote:

"The questions are out about the MAZE4...Yes a handful of our distributors do have the new MAZE4 block. The Danger Den site will have it listed within a week. This block does offer improvements over the MAZE3 - Less water flow restriction, improved peltier clamping, lighter block design, better cooling, improved look, and more. A socket hold down version will not be available for a few weeks."

winewood · 06-05-2003, 11:10 AM

I was saying.. you can put a peltier on anything... as you can sell anything or use anything as a paperweight. I don't think you took the sarcasm in its context.
And just because somone says.. improved peltier clamping, doesn't change the block to be efficient in TEC cooling. They just said that to not eliminate themselves from somone who wanted the block and said.. hmmm lets try a pelt on this thing. It's marketing. I could have an awsome clamping system on a rock, but I don't think I would even try to recommend this to someone who wanted to try TEC cooling exclusively... based on the limited coverage on top, would you?
Course I don't remember you trying to defend a block before, especially before a reliable review. So, excuse me for being somewhat shocked.

jaydee · 06-05-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
[b]I was saying.. you can put a peltier on anything... as you can sell anything or use anything as a paperweight. I don't think you took the sarcasm in its context.

Aww ok.

Quote:

And just because somone says.. improved peltier clamping, doesn't change the block to be efficient in TEC cooling. They just said that to not eliminate themselves from somone who wanted the block and said.. hmmm lets try a pelt on this thing. It's marketing.

Thats your opinion with no substantial fact behind it.

Quote:

I could have an awsome clamping system on a rock, but I don't think I would even try to recommend this to someone who wanted to try TEC cooling exclusively... based on the limited coverage on top, would you?

I don't recommend anyone use a TEC with any type of block.

Quote:

Course I don't remember you trying to defend a block before, especially before a reliable review. So, excuse me for being somewhat shocked.

Not defending it a bit, nor have a suggested this block it good to use for a pelt, but it certainly may not be worst than the others either.

bigben2k · 06-05-2003, 02:14 PM

Does anyone remember the Maze 2-2? DD was notorious for having a block that was actually designed for two TECs.

So if DD claims an improvement, I think it's quite welcome, but I doubt we'll see a two TEC block anytime soon. Would be nice to see some substance behind the statement though...

Marci · 06-10-2003, 05:40 PM

Quote:

It doesn't look like it'd be that good for TEC tbh, although I could be wrong, and we won't know for sure until we know the dimensions.

My main worry would be that with a circle or oval, you would need a circle with a diameter equal to the distance from corner to corner of the TEC, ot there would be parts of the TEC that were not covered by the area the water can flow.

This would mean a circle 56mm across for a 40x40 TEC, not accounting for heatspreading anyway.

Thats pretty damn big, and this block doesn't look that large to me.

I'm sure they've thought of this though.

Dunno about you lot but anyone THAT bothered about squeezing every last ounce out of a TEC would either have gone phasechange buy now or wouldn't settle fer anything less than a custom/home built block. For a prefab tec block it's probably just as good as the rest of the offerings within a degree or two.
It's only real commercial equivalent in the same sort of league in terms of company reputation and longevity within the scene would be the Swiftech... and I seriously doubt there'd be THAT much difference between the two.

With regards the clamping, if it uses more screws around the tec then the clamping is guaranteed to be able to be applied more accurately and evenly than a block with only 4 screws. I think that is more the point... but in the end it's all down to the competence of the person fitting the tec. Whether a 4 screw clamp or a 20 screw clamp, if the user only does up 75% of em in either case then it's his problem (just for a daft example)

Jus my opinion... will let you know how the Maze4-1 performs tho when I get one in a week or two to compare to my Maze3-1.... not expecting anything more than a 2 degree improvement over a 24hr continuous load... cos expecting any more than that would just be plain daft unless a mad manufacturin miracle had been discovered to majorly improve performance over any other commercial offering.

(y do I get the feelin I may have just lined myself up for a huge flamin session??!

)

jaydee · 06-10-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marci

(y do I get the feelin I may have just lined myself up for a huge flamin session??! )

Sounded pretty fair to me.

[-Stash-] · 06-11-2003, 12:00 PM

Personally, having just bought a MAZE3 (just being 45 days ago) I hope the 4 isn't any more than a couple of degrees better. If it is then I hope I can find some poor fool to buy my MAZE3 off me

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 02:01 PM

Just got my Maze 4 today.

It will cover 98% of a 40mm TEC. it will miss a little bit on the corners but it is coveres by water channels the 98%. The top was laser cut and engraved (something I can relate to

), the finish is pretty good. They sand blasted it and lapped it pretty well. Dosn't look like this one needs re-lapping but havn't looked it over to carefully yet. It even has 2 "warranty void if removed" stickers! I will have a whole write up on it in the next few days with plenty of pics....

Yo-DUH_87 · 07-12-2003, 01:25 AM

I got mine this week as well (thanks pH!), and it screams quality build. Unfortinately, I have no other watercooling hardware, so I won't get to test it for a while

/me needs $$$ to feed new addiction

05-30-2003, 08:42 PM	#5
mfpmax Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rockledge,FL,US Posts: 731	But pH still has the cool name. __________________ My old and retired watercooling setup. Watercooled K6-2 450 at 600 Also Retired - Watercooling an XP1800@1782MHz

05-31-2003, 06:50 PM	#12
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I would think the middle of the tec would get cooler than the outside. Plus it seems that there may not be any cooling on the corners. Those corners would accumulate heat, then disperse it to the entire unit, including cover. This would end up taking away from overall performance to my understanding. Just a thought. So I agree with you GTA. If your pelt cooling, I would think a block that provided flow across all corners and middle evenly may perform better. __________________ -winewood-

06-05-2003, 02:22 AM	#15
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I know you can put a TEC with anything, but the question you have to live with is why? 30% of the TEC surface appears to have to cooling above it. This doesn't seem to shout out as a tec cooling block.... am I missing something? __________________ -winewood-

06-05-2003, 11:10 AM	#17
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I was saying.. you can put a peltier on anything... as you can sell anything or use anything as a paperweight. I don't think you took the sarcasm in its context. And just because somone says.. improved peltier clamping, doesn't change the block to be efficient in TEC cooling. They just said that to not eliminate themselves from somone who wanted the block and said.. hmmm lets try a pelt on this thing. It's marketing. I could have an awsome clamping system on a rock, but I don't think I would even try to recommend this to someone who wanted to try TEC cooling exclusively... based on the limited coverage on top, would you? Course I don't remember you trying to defend a block before, especially before a reliable review. So, excuse me for being somewhat shocked. __________________ -winewood-

06-05-2003, 02:14 PM	#19
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Does anyone remember the Maze 2-2? DD was notorious for having a block that was actually designed for two TECs. So if DD claims an improvement, I think it's quite welcome, but I doubt we'll see a two TEC block anytime soon. Would be nice to see some substance behind the statement though... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-30-2003, 08:10 PM	#4
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Very good!

05-31-2003, 12:04 AM	#6
yuanlong Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Malaysia, KL Posts: 39	Anyone tried it??? How's the performance compare to maze3?? wouldn't that the inlet be ontop of the die more efficient??

05-31-2003, 04:27 AM	#7
UnloadeD Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MidWest USA Posts: 176	Looks to me like they should cut about 2/3's of the threads off those barbs. It would give a lower profile and the fatter part of the tapered threads would be in the top plate. I am glad to see they are using polyprop barbs, they have a much larger ID than standard brass ones, and I don't think they'll stress the plexi as much either. Personally I think they look better too, although most will probably disagree with me on that point. peace. unloaded

05-31-2003, 10:49 AM	#8
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Wondering if all the extra unused holes are for a TEC.

05-31-2003, 11:52 AM	#9
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I hope so

05-31-2003, 12:52 PM	#10
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Selling at $41.99. http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant...gory_Code=NEWP

05-31-2003, 02:58 PM	#11
GTA Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK - Bristol Posts: 134	It doesn't look like it'd be that good for TEC tbh, although I could be wrong, and we won't know for sure until we know the dimensions. My main worry would be that with a circle or oval, you would need a circle with a diameter equal to the distance from corner to corner of the TEC, ot there would be parts of the TEC that were not covered by the area the water can flow. This would mean a circle 56mm across for a 40x40 TEC, not accounting for heatspreading anyway. Thats pretty damn big, and this block doesn't look that large to me. I'm sure they've thought of this though.

05-31-2003, 07:26 PM	#13
GTA Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK - Bristol Posts: 134	Its never actually going to be even. What I was going for, on my block anyway, was to use the natural property of water following the path of least resistance, to aid cooling. What I figured was that the centre of the block, right over the middle of the core, in my block anyway, had very very little floe resistance, eg, 3mm between inlet and outlet. As the grooves get bigger, and longer, the flow resistance increases, as does the distance the water has to travel to get out. if you're cooling an area the size of a CPU core, this is very significant, you want a lot of flow over the core, but less over the mop-up areas, around the core. The design, without forcing the water, allows this to happen naturally. With a TEC, you ahve to use a HUGE area, and I don't think the same principals apply. In my eyes, this is not a TEC block, by any means, the original Maze1 would be a better bet.

06-04-2003, 10:42 AM	#14
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Yup, looks like a TEC in one of them there blocks.

06-11-2003, 12:00 PM	#22
[-Stash-] Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent, England Posts: 24	Personally, having just bought a MAZE3 (just being 45 days ago) I hope the 4 isn't any more than a couple of degrees better. If it is then I hope I can find some poor fool to buy my MAZE3 off me __________________ [-Stash-] ---------------------------------- XP-M 2500+ (2.5GHz @200FSB), DFI Infinity NFII Ultra 2512 Ballistix 3200, 6800GT 410/1100 WD740GD, 2120 SATA Maxtor 6Y120M0, NEC ND2500A (external) Eheim 1250, DD Maze3, Heater Core, 1/2" Tygon

07-10-2003, 02:01 PM	#23
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Just got my Maze 4 today. It will cover 98% of a 40mm TEC. it will miss a little bit on the corners but it is coveres by water channels the 98%. The top was laser cut and engraved (something I can relate to ), the finish is pretty good. They sand blasted it and lapped it pretty well. Dosn't look like this one needs re-lapping but havn't looked it over to carefully yet. It even has 2 "warranty void if removed" stickers! I will have a whole write up on it in the next few days with plenty of pics....

07-12-2003, 01:25 AM	#24
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	I got mine this week as well (thanks pH!), and it screams quality build. Unfortinately, I have no other watercooling hardware, so I won't get to test it for a while /me needs $$$ to feed new addiction __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

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