Okay, I'm torn between Iwaki pumps ...

[Got KarmA?]

I'm cooling a LOT ... and thats an understatement.

Here's the loop:

Reservoir --> pump --> cathar's LRWW block --> swiftech mcw50 --> dtek northbridge waterblock --> bong --> repeat.
The bong is roughly 4.5 feet high. The entire system is 3/8" ... except from reservoir --> pump, and pump --> case, and case --> bong. So basically all the external hose is 1/2"

Its brought my eheim 1060 to a crawl. It can't maintain the pressure needed to put water through the showerhead effectively, and water is pretty much trickling from the top down. Its quite sad, and far from what it used to be like only with the single waterblock in the system.

Now ... I need a new pump, and it needs to be POWERFUL. I think I have two options really ... an Iwaki MD 20RLT ... or the MD 30RLT

Both are 3/4" connectors, which I can of course have adapters on ... but the 20 pushes 420 and the 30 pushes 510. These are figures at 4' head, not zero. I'm not sure on the units ... I'm guessing its liters per hour ... as everything else listed on the page says GPH, but these are unmarked. Who knows ... Either way, I know both have much more flow at 4' head than my 1060.

Its a cost difference of about $144 vs $185.

I may be adding ANOTHER waterblock to the system soon ... so that'll make things even worse.

What do you guys recommend? Is the 30 considerably louder? I heard that the iwaki MD20RLT, just like the eheim 1060, is dead silent if you eliminate vibrations, but I haven't heard any feedback on the 1030. I'm looking for a very silent system ... for example, only ONE 120mm fan running at 7v in the ENTIRE system kind of quiet ... so the pump being totally or near silent is a MAJOR concern of mine.

Here's a picture of the rig:

outside: http://www.gotkarma.net/uploads/IMG_1865.jpg
inside: http://www.gotkarma.net/uploads/IMG_1874.jpg

Thanks for the help!

[murray13]

What you need is a Iwaki 30RZT the Z is for higher pressure. You can get a MD or WMD depending on your budget. Customaquatic has the WMD30RZT for 149.99. People say that the MD (japanese motor) is a little quiter and runs a little cooler. As I only have a WMD I can't say. As long as the input stays flooded it's very quiet. Customaquatic lists the MD30RZT at 218.99.

[Got KarmA?]

I see the RLZT, but no RZT ... can you confirm if the RLZT is correct?

I hate iwaki's pump naming scheme, and basically its whats been scaring me away from purchasing one before. GRR.

BTW ... I'm definitely going for the japanese motor ... for my uses, I'd pay the extra to ensure quiet, cool operation.

[Blackeagle]

MD-30RLZT is correct. It's not so much a problem with Iwaki as it is with everyone on these sites shortening the pump's proper #. Not unusual to see them posted as just MD-30Z as well, all the same pump.

And that volume designation is in fact gallons per min. not liters.

The Z type Iwaki's are the best as they provide so much head/pressure vs volume, a better ratio than most offered pumps have.

[Since87]

I've no experience with bongs. Is the noise of a WMD30-RZ going to be anywhere near as loud as the noise of the water spraying in the bong?

BTW I believe the Iwaki model number suffixes mean:

X: high flowrate model
Z: high pressure model
L: Low voltage (115 vs 220)
T: Threaded fittings (rather than barbs)

[Blackeagle]

From what I've read about use of the Larger Iwaki pumps I have one suggestion for you.

Don't reduce the line size, until you absolutly MUST. Smaller lines will waste much of the larger pump's power. And don't reduce it at all going from the res to the intake. If you restrict the intake you may get cavitation, and that would be the end of quiet. A 3/4" female threaded fitting with a 1" tube size going to the res would be even better. Keeping the inlet in lowest resistence flood at all times will give you:
1) better flow
2) lower noise
3) less pump wear.

edit:

Sence87,

Good point regarding the water noise.

And I believe you are correct regarding the Iwaki letter designations. Listings for barbed ones at US aquarium sites seem pretty rare, so I forgot that part.

2nd edit,

Would not the much increased pressure of the Iwaki MD-30RLZT also increase the water sound a good deal?

[Volenti]

Originally posted by Since87
I've no experience with bongs. Is the noise of a WMD30-RZ going to be anywhere near as loud as the noise of the water spraying in the bong?

(I have a MD-20RZ) a typical shower head bong will easily drown out any noise the pump will make, though it will still have to be vibration isolated like all pumps to stop induced noise.

The average p4 system with psu fan is louder than these pumps imho .

[Got KarmA?]

Haha, you people must have not seen my earlier posts on the subject of quieting your bong.

Trust me ... my bong is nearly silent ... I used to use a humidifier filter suspended over the water by cut styrofoam to stop the water dropping noise ... but now I've replaced the filter with a different material that works just as well, but isn't paper-based and won't break down on me. Unfortunately, I'm STILL trying to clean out all the crap that formed due to the humidifier filter. Regardless, its still nearly silent ... and of what little you CAN hear ... its a comfortable white noise, not that low drone or hum of a fan or pump.

As for restricting the system ... as much as I'd like to have kept it at 1/2" it ended up ripping the northbridge mounting points from my motherboard on my previous IS7 ... the tension was so high on my tight-bend turns. I was forced to move down to 3/8" ID Tygon tubing when I added the third waterblock.

Now, thanks for answering the questions on the type of pump I need ... that saved me from a BIG mistake, but does anyone actually have experience with the 30 vs the 20, in noise? I'm hoping both will be like my eheim ... dead silent once the vibration has been cut out. I think the 20 is like that since I've heard some reports as such, but I haven't seen any posts about the 30.

Sound is a sensitive subject ... and I know pumps make different noises than fans and such, but any comparisons would be greatly appreciated. I found that the vibration-induced noise of my eheim 1060 was VERY annoying ... so I isolated that ... but I haven't had much experience with the noises that a pump's motor will make .... since the eheim is silent in that respect. All vibrations aside ... do the Iwaki MD20RLZ or MD30RLZ have a considerable motor noise? What could it be compared to?

Thanks!

[Cathar]

I have an Iwaki MD-30RZ pump

It's fairly quiet. The pumps have a turbine whine to them, but a very quiet one.

My pump sits inside my radiator box.

The volume of noise it makes while it's inside the box can best be described as when everything else is off in the room, them room seems silent. When the pump is then turned off, you can sense that the room has become quieter, but not for the lack of any particular noise.

When outside of the box, yeah, it's audible. I'd place it at maybe 25-30dBA sort of volume.

[Got KarmA?]

Thanks Cathar!

So... does this generate too much heat for me to sayyy .... put some sound insulation around it?

EDIT: By the way, I'm looking at purchasing the MD30RZ pump then ... and two options that I know of are customaquatic and Underwater Creations. Do you guys recommend a certain shop?

[Blackeagle]

I would recommend Underwater Creations to you.

They are very quick to respond & correct problems.

I purchased a MD-15 from them and when I got the notice it was shipped I saw they had made a mistake in my addy. They didn't wait to see if it would reach me regardless of the minor error on my addy, they shipped a second pump at once.

They are also very quick to responed to e-mails seeking infor on any of the pumps they carry.

They treated me great, I'll buy from them again whenever I need another pump.

[Got KarmA?]

Thanks! I'll do that!

[Animal982]

I dont understand why you would need the 30RZT over the 20RZT. From looking at the graph posted in the Iwaki pump discussion of OCAU the 30 RZT will generate roughly 90W compared to the 20RZT's 50W. Are you really going to need more than the 22 feet of head the 20 RZT gives? Its true that with a bong cooler this isnt going to affect water temps that much but you'll be spending the extra money for the electricity when really I dont think you need to.

[Got KarmA?]

I wish I could get accurate figures of the amount of backpressure my system puts on the pump, but its a considerable amount. When you factor in three waterblocks (one incredibly restricting), a 4.5' bong, with a restricting showerhead .... and with the intent on adding ANOTHER one or two hard drive waterblocks to the cycle, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Considering everyone told me the 1060 was total overkill when I first got it ... and its proved inadequate now, I'd like to avoid the same mistake in the future.

Additionally, the electric bill isn't something I need to worry about in my current residence, thankfully.

But thanks for the info ... I was looking for that kind of clear data for a while, but never found it.

By the way ... there will be further projects involved as well. I may POSSIBLY have two or three PC's in the same loop some day ... and thats where I think the considerable power of this pump will really pay off. I consider a pump an investment ... and I'm glad I did invest in the 1060 at the time since it was widely considered the best and has lasted me a good many years (5?) with zero problems ... until recently. About the only concern that I have for the future, though, as you've pointed out, is the power consumption. I think I can stomach it though.

[Got KarmA?]

LOL I just got a reply from customaquatic wanting me to verify that its the pump I wanted. They supposedly get a lot of orders on the pump from people that didn't know it was so powerful ;-)

[copyman]

Originally posted by Blackeagle
MD-30RLZT is correct. It's not so much a problem with Iwaki as it is with everyone on these sites shortening the pump's proper #. Not unusual to see them posted as just MD-30Z as well, all the same pump.

And that volume designation is in fact gallons per min. not liters.

The Z type Iwaki's are the best as they provide so much head/pressure vs volume, a better ratio than most offered pumps have.

look at velocite titanium t3, 700gph @ 4' , 28' shoot off head

140w vs + 200w iwaki at the same flow rate vs shoot off head

rotor and firewall in titanium and other cool stufs

[Animal982]

From looking at the flow curves in the above Iwaki chart and then comparing it to the following graph BillA included in his review of the Whitewater block it looks to me that with the higher flow of the MD30RZT all you will be doing is increasing the head loss exponentially while gaining little to no improvement in cooling.



Now I know for a simple 3 block setup that the MD30RZT would be massive overkill so the question we have to ask here is Is the bong cooler restrictive enough and/or need all of the extra head and flow of the MD30RZT? I have no clue but hopefully those that have a bong cooler setup can answer.

[Got KarmA?]

Cathar ... care to chime in about the WW and the MD30RZ? I'm curious about your input since you obviously own both.

[Since87]

One thing to keep in mind, is that Cathar is in Oz with 50 Hz power. Look at the difference in head specs for the pumps in the image above.

In North America with 60 Hz power, the MD20-RZ has 86% of the head rating of the MD30-RZ with 50 Hz power.

[Cathar]

True, due to our country's 50Hz power, our Iwaki pumps lose a lot of peak head, but also they draw less power and dump less heat into the system as a result too, in comparison to 60Hz power countries.

Still, given me experience with the 30RZ on 50Hz power, you really need good radiators (most likely more than one) to offset the amount of heat that the 30RZ will dump into your system.

If you're in a 60Hz power country, I would recommend the 20RZ at best. The 30RZ will likely overwhelm any performance benefit by raising the water temperatures enough to perhaps even more than offset what is gained through the higher flow rates.

The 60Hz 20RZ, with say 2 x DTek Pro cores, would be a better balance.

Since I also own an auto blower, that ranges in strength anywhere from ~100CM @ 10W power draw, all the way up to ~650CFM @ 280W power draw, I've also been able to notice the effects of fan heat altering the ambient temperature of the room enough to offset the benefits of increased air-flow.

When the fan is dumping an extra 200W of heat into the room, along with the pump dumping ~50-100W of heat, along with the CPU, one starts to notice the effects of all that heat on the room's ambient temperature, which directly affects the temperature of the air flowing through the radiator.


My honest advice if you want to chase the pointy end of pumps for water-cooling in a 60Hz country - grab an Iwaki MD-15R, or at most an MD-20RZ. Anything more and it becomes challenging to manage the heatload from the pump itself, and that includes the room temperature.

[Got KarmA?]

Well thats just a bit frustrating ...

head loss, I could handle. price, I could handle, pretty much everything else I could handle.

But more room heat? Hell NO. I wish this information was more forthcoming earlier :-\

*Calls UWC*

[t00lb0x]

Originally posted by Cathar
My honest advice if you want to chase the pointy end of pumps for water-cooling in a 60Hz country - grab an Iwaki MD-15R, or at most an MD-20RZ. Anything more and it becomes challenging to manage the heatload from the pump itself, and that includes the room temperature.

Do you think the MD-15R or MD-20RZ could handle two radiators or a bong, three waterblocks, and various other obsticles?

[Got KarmA?]

Originally posted by t00lb0x
Do you think the MD-15R or MD-20RZ could handle two radiators or a bong, three waterblocks, and various other obsticles?

I pray they can, because I'm making my decision based on that. I'll let you guys know when I get it.

[copyman]

Originally posted by Got KarmA?
I pray they can, because I'm making my decision based on that. I'll let you guys know when I get it.

using 3\8 and 3 blocks (1 lrww) a 4` bong, you will have to pray enough

the problem is that you need a larger pressure and flow, but you don't have as removing additional heat generated by something larger

if I knew your bong it gets to remove heat of the fluid it would be different

or you change and define some characteristics of your system, or you will have to buy something less bad

[Cathar]

Originally posted by t00lb0x
Do you think the MD-15R or MD-20RZ could handle two radiators or a bong, three waterblocks, and various other obsticles?

It all depends on one's definition of "handle", being what the final flow rate one expects to see.

Still, if I lived in a 60Hz country, it'd be the MD-20RZ for me in terms of a pump that you know is going to admirably handle most everything you throw at it, without dumping excessive amounts of heat into the water/room.