Newer P4's - Removing IHS destroys them.

Since87 · 11-28-2003, 03:51 PM

Just a word of warning...

I ran across this thread at oc-forums.

It appears Intel has a new method for thermally connecting the CPU to the heatspreader. Removing the heatspreader may virtually insure destruction of the CPU.

pHaestus · 11-28-2003, 04:48 PM

wow. Surprised that didn't elicit more response? I wonder what Intel's doing now to mate IHS to core?

BillA · 11-28-2003, 05:00 PM

they need to heat that IHS up and see at what temp it debonds

Cathar · 11-28-2003, 05:22 PM

I wonder if its that new low-heat-point thermal solder that was being discussed a while back?

That picture is just frightening.

Since87 · 11-28-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unregistered
they need to heat that IHS up and see at what temp it debonds

Would be interesting to know, but regardless, I suspect removing an IHS will be tricky business now.

Probably too risky to try to cut the 'rubber' while the die is still bonded to the IHS, and cutting the 'rubber' while keeping the IHS at the right temp would be a real pain.

If one did get the IHS removed without damaging the core, there would likely be a rough surface of the thermal bonding material on the die to deal with.

Only bright side (for us) is that the new bond may have a much better C/W than the old goop provided.

BillA · 11-28-2003, 05:27 PM

was not thinking of the IHS removal, just to identify the matl
quite agree that this seems to be the end of popping the lids

I suspect the C/W is appreciably better

snowwie · 11-28-2003, 06:31 PM

now we have to lap 'em

not to acheive the flat surface as that issue has been wasted by now, but that the nickel plate finish bothers me.

you can see that they leave the copper bare for the soldering (or whatever the hell it is that they do), so at least that is a TIM joint we can be much less worried about, not that we have a choice anyway.

what is the difference in heat conductivity we would find from the nickel plate finish being there? is it really much, or not? I know that there probably wouldn't be a difference in even 1 degree C, but it is still somehting to think about.

Since87 · 11-28-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snowwie
you can see that they leave the copper bare for the soldering (or whatever the hell it is that they do)

That doesn't look like copper to me.

The color looks to me like a plating I've heard called "chromate plating" which is used to put a non oxidizing coating on aluminum to facilitate electrical contact to the aluminum. (I don't have any reason to think this actually is chromate plating - just noting the similarity of the color.)

Normal tin/lead solder bonds easily to nickel. I don't have a good guess why the interior of the IHS has that yellow color.

Cathar · 11-28-2003, 07:00 PM

Looks to me like the color of certain zinc coatings. When browsing around trying to find a place to get some barbs nickel plated, I came across a zinc plating company. Had a look around their facility and the color of some of the jobs was exactly that yellowish finish, which is the result of some modification to the plating process. I don't any more about it, just that's what it looks like to me.

Since87 · 11-28-2003, 07:00 PM

Further investigation indicates that the pictured CPU was the P4EE (Xeon?) binned as a 2.4C.

Link

snowwie · 11-28-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
That doesn't look like copper to me.

The color looks to me like a plating I've heard called "chromate plating" which is used to put a non oxidizing coating on aluminum to facilitate electrical contact to the aluminum. (I don't have any reason to think this actually is chromate plating - just noting the similarity of the color.)

Normal tin/lead solder bonds easily to nickel. I don't have a good guess why the interior of the IHS has that yellow color.

it has been my understanding (and that of many others) that the IHS consists of solid copper, but gets its silver color from a plating, most likely nickel, probably to resist corrosion or oxidation.

Since87 · 11-28-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snowwie
it has been my understanding (and that of many others) that the IHS consists of solid copper, but gets its silver color from a plating, most likely nickel, probably to resist corrosion or oxidation.

That is my understanding as well.

However, I think that yellowish color is yet another material, probably plated on top of the nickel. Something to aid the "soldering" of whatever the bonding material is.

snowwie · 11-28-2003, 07:23 PM

you are probably right

I had not considered that, just that the color reminded me of copper

bigben2k · 11-28-2003, 08:17 PM

Well, that sucks!

As Bill said, we need the temp for debonding. I wouldn't try anything above the spec "storage temp", which is... let's see... Hum...

Anyone?

myv65 · 11-28-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Well, that sucks!

As Bill said, we need the temp for debonding. I wouldn't try anything above the spec "storage temp", which is... let's see... Hum...

Anyone?

Then do not try Ben, for it's obvious that the debonding temperature must be higher than the spec "storage temp". Wouldn't make much sense to allow a storage temperature that resulted in all the IHS's falling off, now would it?

pHaestus · 11-28-2003, 10:19 PM

Dave by now you should know that deductive reasoning and logic are NOT acceptable in a response to Ben.

bigben2k · 11-28-2003, 10:45 PM

DOH! (a la Homer Simpson)

Ok, so what temperatures would ya'll like to try?

I'm still searching for the storage temp.

snowwie · 11-29-2003, 11:46 AM

since excessive heat may ruin the chip, would the opposite potentially ruin the chip as well? I can remember sticking my video card into the freezer so I could snap the ram sinks off my geforce2 ultra.

But I think that it doesn't matter

does anyone here actually have one of these chips that they are willing to destroy?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....hreadid=693498

at the end of the thread, it seems that he thinks it's more like a thermal adhesive, no so much a permanent bond.

Which is good, because then maybe it is easier pull off, but then again I dunno.
Intel obviously put something on there that will withstand a wide range of temps, bigben, how you doing on finding that range?

11-28-2003, 03:51 PM	#1
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	Newer P4's - Removing IHS destroys them. Just a word of warning... I ran across this thread at oc-forums. It appears Intel has a new method for thermally connecting the CPU to the heatspreader. Removing the heatspreader may virtually insure destruction of the CPU.

11-28-2003, 04:48 PM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	wow. Surprised that didn't elicit more response? I wonder what Intel's doing now to mate IHS to core? __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

11-28-2003, 08:17 PM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Well, that sucks! As Bill said, we need the temp for debonding. I wouldn't try anything above the spec "storage temp", which is... let's see... Hum... Anyone? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-28-2003, 10:19 PM	#16
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Dave by now you should know that deductive reasoning and logic are NOT acceptable in a response to Ben. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

11-28-2003, 10:45 PM	#17
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	DOH! (a la Homer Simpson) Ok, so what temperatures would ya'll like to try? I'm still searching for the storage temp. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-28-2003, 05:00 PM	#3
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	they need to heat that IHS up and see at what temp it debonds

11-28-2003, 05:22 PM	#4
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I wonder if its that new low-heat-point thermal solder that was being discussed a while back? That picture is just frightening.

11-28-2003, 05:27 PM	#6
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	was not thinking of the IHS removal, just to identify the matl quite agree that this seems to be the end of popping the lids I suspect the C/W is appreciably better

11-28-2003, 06:31 PM	#7
snowwie Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 154	now we have to lap 'em not to acheive the flat surface as that issue has been wasted by now, but that the nickel plate finish bothers me. you can see that they leave the copper bare for the soldering (or whatever the hell it is that they do), so at least that is a TIM joint we can be much less worried about, not that we have a choice anyway. what is the difference in heat conductivity we would find from the nickel plate finish being there? is it really much, or not? I know that there probably wouldn't be a difference in even 1 degree C, but it is still somehting to think about.

11-28-2003, 07:00 PM	#9
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Looks to me like the color of certain zinc coatings. When browsing around trying to find a place to get some barbs nickel plated, I came across a zinc plating company. Had a look around their facility and the color of some of the jobs was exactly that yellowish finish, which is the result of some modification to the plating process. I don't any more about it, just that's what it looks like to me.

11-28-2003, 07:23 PM	#13
snowwie Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 154	you are probably right I had not considered that, just that the color reminded me of copper

11-29-2003, 11:46 AM	#18
snowwie Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 154	since excessive heat may ruin the chip, would the opposite potentially ruin the chip as well? I can remember sticking my video card into the freezer so I could snap the ram sinks off my geforce2 ultra. But I think that it doesn't matter does anyone here actually have one of these chips that they are willing to destroy? http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....hreadid=693498 at the end of the thread, it seems that he thinks it's more like a thermal adhesive, no so much a permanent bond. Which is good, because then maybe it is easier pull off, but then again I dunno. Intel obviously put something on there that will withstand a wide range of temps, bigben, how you doing on finding that range?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)