schematic for linear pelt psu

mikoto · 12-09-2003, 03:08 PM

preferably adjustable voltage, around 30 amp output. If that is even possible.

anyone know where I can get my hands on such a drawing?

anything close to it even?

I think I have seen similar schematics on this site but my searches yielded nothing.

Since87 · 12-09-2003, 04:29 PM

There is an article at overclockers that describes building a linear supply for a TEC. It's not adjustable though.

Doing it right though will be more expensive than just buying a switcher. The efficiency will suck too.

To vary the output of such a linear supply, you would want to connect a variac to its input. Regulating the output voltage on the output side of the supply will dissipate way too much power. You need to regulate the AC input. That is what the variac is for.

BTW, I happen to have a variac available that could do the job.

Groth · 12-09-2003, 05:37 PM

Oooh, I like the idea of using a variac like that! And with TEC, you could probably get away with just rectifying and filtering, no regulation.

By the by, Since, how big is that variac? I've an old 10 A one, but it's too bulky for casual use. One last bit of hijacking - don't suppose you have any info on brush replacing/rebuilding? Mine's getting mighty worn.

Since87 · 12-09-2003, 05:58 PM

TEC manufacturers recommend keeping the ripple under 10% for fullwave rectified 60Hz, so it's a lot of filtering. The caps are one of the major expenses for doing this.

The variac I have is 5A. Probably enough for a 12V, 30A supply, as long as the efficiency of the linear is reasonable. Definitely enough for a 226 Watt TEC supply.

Edit: Don't know anything about replacing the brush.

Since87 · 12-09-2003, 06:14 PM

BTW here's the link to the Overclockers article.

And, here's a link to a thread discussing it. (I had some issues with the article.)

Groth · 12-09-2003, 06:46 PM

10%, eh? Is that spec'd peak to peak, or RMS. Either way, that'd be a lot of caps.

Bummer.

KnightElite · 12-09-2003, 06:51 PM

http://www.onsemi.com/site/products/...MR2510,00.html

Check those bad boys out. You could probably build a bridge rectifier without too much trouble with those, and a relatively large capacitor.

EDIT: Say, a 0.5F 15V capacitor, or something like that, which is relatively cheap at surplus stores and stuff (there's a store here in town that has lots of high capacitance low voltage caps).

Since87 · 12-09-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groth
10%, eh? Is that spec'd peak to peak, or RMS. Either way, that'd be a lot of caps.

Bummer.

I don't think the place I saw that recommendation specified P-P or RMS, but yeah, a lot of capacitance anyway.

Scrounging at surplus places might work, but I'd be concerned about the shelf life of old electrolytic caps. (I wouldn't want to be around when a big old electrolytic shorted out in this kind of supply either.) I'd be concerned about the ripple current rating of the cap too. It might be difficult to find that information on an older cap.

Since87 · 12-09-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KnightElite

Check those bad boys out. You could probably build a bridge rectifier without too much trouble with those, and a relatively large capacitor.

I'd recommend using Schottky diodes. (Lower forward voltage = reduced power dissipation in the diodes)

KnightElite · 12-09-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
I'd recommend using Schottky diodes. (Lower forward voltage = reduced power dissipation in the diodes)

True... but these can handle 1000V, 25A

. That's got to be hard to beat

. Overkill for what is needed though, doubtlessly. It would work really good too if you could just integrate the variac directly into the power supply, like getting a 10 to 1 turns ratio or something variac.

Groth · 12-09-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
BTW here's the link to the Overclockers article.

And, here's a link to a thread discussing it. (I had some issues with the article.)

I just looked through the article. I'm unimpressed.

Along with agreeing with your comments in the OC forums, I'm appalled that he never mentioned that the rectified DC output is NOT the same as the rms AC output of the transformer. At 12 V the diode drops will disguise that omission, but at 20+ it'll get interesting. I wonder how many people will kill their TECs.

Since87 · 12-10-2003, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groth
I just looked through the article. I'm unimpressed.

Along with agreeing with your comments in the OC forums, I'm appalled that he never mentioned that the rectified DC output is NOT the same as the rms AC output of the transformer. At 12 V the diode drops will disguise that omission, but at 20+ it'll get interesting. I wonder how many people will kill their TECs.

Yes, I probably should have ripped it more than I did. (Probably would have 'gotten away with it' at that time. I'm probably on the moderator's due for banning list now. Most threads I've written in at oc-forums lately have been deleted.)

Groth · 12-10-2003, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
I'm probably on the moderator's due for banning list now.

Have you been spankin' the kiddies?

Seriously, I wonder why they publish some of their articles. Editing and peer review would be nice addition to the site.

Edit: grammar/spelling

mikoto · 12-10-2003, 10:06 AM

wow...posted that at work yesterday, and when I chk back this morning there is all this good info in there.

Thanks guys

mikoto · 12-10-2003, 10:20 AM

OK...a little itme to digest this.

Truth is, I just don't understand enough of what you guys are saying.

I'm gonna print this out and take it to my EE buddy and see if he can explain it all to me. I hate to take him every little thing, I fear he will get sick of teaching me stuff =P
Then...I'LL BE BACK.

mikoto · 12-10-2003, 01:23 PM

how about THIS, with modifications of course. I assume it is designed for UK mains, but what the hell do I know? and wth is with the car batteries?

I think this should be enough to get my friend an idea of what I wanna do so I can start learning.

Groth · 12-10-2003, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikoto
how about THIS, with modifications of course. I assume it is designed for UK mains, but what the hell do I know? and wth is with the car batteries?

Once you get past the messed up link...yup it's a linear power supply.

It's an acceptable basic design.

Just choose a transformer that matches your local main voltage. The transformer will the the biggest, heaviest, most expensive part of the project.

I don't know why it uses a transformer with such a high output voltage. A lot of power is being wasted heating up transistors. I'd use a one that outputs 12V/40A and beef up the first capacitor from 47,000uF to 100,000. Spend money on caps; save on electricity.

Rectifier diodes capable of handling 100A peaks were specified. I'd go with one that can handle 35A average forward current, and 300+ amps of peak current.

The car batteries thing is just for testing/explanation purposes. It would be a bit silly to use two 12V batteries to get 12V.

mikoto · 12-10-2003, 10:06 PM

heh, sry for the screwy link. It was the first time I tried that. Don't post a lot.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try to build this thing.
Then I'll prolly add it to the huge pile of useless crap that I've built and never used taking up 1/3 of my garage

iroc409 · 12-11-2003, 01:38 PM

i've been kinda looking into this, not a lot, but it's something that i'm entertaining.

i found some 12.6v/25a transformers, but i'm guessing from what someone said, this isn't recommended for a 25a psu?

Groth · 12-11-2003, 02:59 PM

You could squeeze a final ouput of 20A with that transformer. It might get warm, and it might hum from the the high current pulses charging the cap.

Where'd ya find 'em?

KnightElite · 12-11-2003, 08:52 PM

I would go for it, if I were you. That would probably be good enough to run a 226W TEC off of. And really, a supply can be even simpler than the one shown above, if you want to use ridiculously huge capacitors. You will also get a very smooth supply if you do that.

iroc409 · 12-12-2003, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groth
You could squeeze a final ouput of 20A with that transformer. It might get warm, and it might hum from the the high current pulses charging the cap.

Where'd ya find 'em?

all electronics. i used to get their catalog. they have a lot of wierd junk, mostly surplus stuff. it was the biggest transformer they had, but it was like $15 or something. i'm pretty sure they were new.

hydrogen18 · 12-16-2003, 05:15 PM

I can sell you some big power filter caps:
7x 31000mfd 15 VDC, 18 VDC surge
7x 16000mfd 50 VDC, 65-75 VDC surge
2x 61000mfd 10 VDC, 15 VDC surge
2400mfd 200 VDC
35000mfd 40 VDC, 50 VDC surge
39000mfd 7.5 VDC, 9 VDC surge
2100mfd 35VDC, surge 50VDC

Btw, pelts work a hell of alot better at 15 or even 20 volts than they do at 12.

KnightElite · 12-16-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hydrogen18
I can sell you some big power filter caps:
7x 31000mfd 15 VDC, 18 VDC surge
7x 16000mfd 50 VDC, 65-75 VDC surge
2x 61000mfd 10 VDC, 15 VDC surge
2400mfd 200 VDC
35000mfd 40 VDC, 50 VDC surge
39000mfd 7.5 VDC, 9 VDC surge
2100mfd 35VDC, surge 50VDC

Btw, pelts work a hell of alot better at 15 or even 20 volts than they do at 12.

That only applies to TECs that are designed to run at those voltages... if the VMax is 15.2V, running it at 20V is asking for trouble.

I'm assuming those are µF, and not mF, since otherwise, those are some pretty huge capacitors

.

Grayson · 12-16-2003, 06:53 PM

But you will have better results if all your caps are rated for voltages somewhat higher than the maximum output voltage of your rectifires.

Grayson

12-09-2003, 03:08 PM	#1
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	schematic for linear pelt psu preferably adjustable voltage, around 30 amp output. If that is even possible. anyone know where I can get my hands on such a drawing? anything close to it even? I think I have seen similar schematics on this site but my searches yielded nothing.

12-09-2003, 06:51 PM	#7
KnightElite Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Posts: 294	http://www.onsemi.com/site/products/...MR2510,00.html Check those bad boys out. You could probably build a bridge rectifier without too much trouble with those, and a relatively large capacitor. EDIT: Say, a 0.5F 15V capacitor, or something like that, which is relatively cheap at surplus stores and stuff (there's a store here in town that has lots of high capacitance low voltage caps). __________________ Can anyone else here say that they have a watercooled monster that's 45" tall?

12-11-2003, 01:38 PM	#19
iroc409 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 596	i've been kinda looking into this, not a lot, but it's something that i'm entertaining. i found some 12.6v/25a transformers, but i'm guessing from what someone said, this isn't recommended for a 25a psu? __________________ :shrug:

12-11-2003, 08:52 PM	#21
KnightElite Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Posts: 294	I would go for it, if I were you. That would probably be good enough to run a 226W TEC off of. And really, a supply can be even simpler than the one shown above, if you want to use ridiculously huge capacitors. You will also get a very smooth supply if you do that. __________________ Can anyone else here say that they have a watercooled monster that's 45" tall?

12-09-2003, 04:29 PM	#2
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	There is an article at overclockers that describes building a linear supply for a TEC. It's not adjustable though. Doing it right though will be more expensive than just buying a switcher. The efficiency will suck too. To vary the output of such a linear supply, you would want to connect a variac to its input. Regulating the output voltage on the output side of the supply will dissipate way too much power. You need to regulate the AC input. That is what the variac is for. BTW, I happen to have a variac available that could do the job.

12-09-2003, 05:37 PM	#3
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	Oooh, I like the idea of using a variac like that! And with TEC, you could probably get away with just rectifying and filtering, no regulation. By the by, Since, how big is that variac? I've an old 10 A one, but it's too bulky for casual use. One last bit of hijacking - don't suppose you have any info on brush replacing/rebuilding? Mine's getting mighty worn.

12-09-2003, 05:58 PM	#4
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	TEC manufacturers recommend keeping the ripple under 10% for fullwave rectified 60Hz, so it's a lot of filtering. The caps are one of the major expenses for doing this. The variac I have is 5A. Probably enough for a 12V, 30A supply, as long as the efficiency of the linear is reasonable. Definitely enough for a 226 Watt TEC supply. Edit: Don't know anything about replacing the brush.

12-09-2003, 06:14 PM	#5
Since87 Pro/Guru - Uber Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 834	BTW here's the link to the Overclockers article. And, here's a link to a thread discussing it. (I had some issues with the article.)

12-09-2003, 06:46 PM	#6
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	10%, eh? Is that spec'd peak to peak, or RMS. Either way, that'd be a lot of caps. Bummer.

12-10-2003, 10:06 AM	#14
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	wow...posted that at work yesterday, and when I chk back this morning there is all this good info in there. Thanks guys

12-10-2003, 10:20 AM	#15
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	OK...a little itme to digest this. Truth is, I just don't understand enough of what you guys are saying. I'm gonna print this out and take it to my EE buddy and see if he can explain it all to me. I hate to take him every little thing, I fear he will get sick of teaching me stuff =P Then...I'LL BE BACK.

12-10-2003, 01:23 PM	#16
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	how about THIS, with modifications of course. I assume it is designed for UK mains, but what the hell do I know? and wth is with the car batteries? I think this should be enough to get my friend an idea of what I wanna do so I can start learning.

12-10-2003, 10:06 PM	#18
mikoto Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: smog Posts: 47	heh, sry for the screwy link. It was the first time I tried that. Don't post a lot. Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try to build this thing. Then I'll prolly add it to the huge pile of useless crap that I've built and never used taking up 1/3 of my garage

12-11-2003, 02:59 PM	#20
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	You could squeeze a final ouput of 20A with that transformer. It might get warm, and it might hum from the the high current pulses charging the cap. Where'd ya find 'em?

12-16-2003, 05:15 PM	#23
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	I can sell you some big power filter caps: 7x 31000mfd 15 VDC, 18 VDC surge 7x 16000mfd 50 VDC, 65-75 VDC surge 2x 61000mfd 10 VDC, 15 VDC surge 2400mfd 200 VDC 35000mfd 40 VDC, 50 VDC surge 39000mfd 7.5 VDC, 9 VDC surge 2100mfd 35VDC, surge 50VDC Btw, pelts work a hell of alot better at 15 or even 20 volts than they do at 12.

12-16-2003, 06:53 PM	#25
Grayson Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i Posts: 25	But you will have better results if all your caps are rated for voltages somewhat higher than the maximum output voltage of your rectifires. Grayson

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