Future of AMD SMP...

decodeddiesel · 12-06-2003, 08:07 AM

Not looking too damn good for the home user. It is looking like both the K8T800 and the nForce 3 support SMP which is good, however it is looking like SMP will only be offered in the 939 and 940 platforms and not the lower end 754 platform which is a lot more inline with a home budget (well my budget anyway). A shame, it is making me think I am just going to get ahold of an older socket 462 SMP board then mod it to use Bartons and run them at 150 fsb, which is already an antiquated platform now and I am trying to find something which will remain somwhat viable for at least a little while. Damn...

If anyone has any data to prove otherwise PLEASE let me know.

Also, does anyone have any data on the "Paris" CPU aside from linking me to an AMD roadmap? I know it is supposed to be a 32 bit 754 pin CPU aimed at budget users, and aimed at replacing the 462 pin CPUs. I am mainly looking at chipset/mobo compatibility, but any projected specs would be nice too.

Joe · 12-06-2003, 12:23 PM

I am gunna buy a Tyan Thunder K7X Pro , and I figure 2 3200+'s should keep those boards well fast enough for a few more years.

my ThunderK7 w/ 2 2600+ MP's rock nicely

airspirit · 12-07-2003, 12:18 AM

Opterons are the only way to go. I'm using a mini-hammer (Athlon64) now and it is extremely impressive ... and I can see how it will be even more impressive with the wider memory interface. Face it: not all chips are meant to go dual, and AMD decided that only the Opteron 2XX series and up could do it. No 939 chips will ever run it. The reason is because of how they arranged the hypertransport links in the chip. What sucks for the little guy is there is no quick tinker to make cheap chips into SMP chips.

You can get a mobo/SMP opteron kit for under $1000 with 242 chips, you know ....

decodeddiesel · 12-07-2003, 12:20 PM

Well that is true about the Opteron Kit Airspirit, it is worth looking into when I get back. I just wish it could be like the good old days of dual P3s and Athlon MPs...

If anything Joe it is cool to know you have been using your dual 1400s for sometime and are happy with it.

airspirit · 12-09-2003, 04:27 PM

Trust me, there is no comparison between the MPs and the opterons. Period. The speed of memory access on those things are sick, there is much better scaling, and they end up doing the SMP job that you want much better. While there is a decent penalty from using SMP on most platforms when running single processor apps (due to overhead and architecture), this is nearly eliminated on the Opteron platform (less that 5% in most test). At this point unless you are in dire cash needs (in which case why are you buying a dually?), there is no rational reason not to go for the opteron ... even if you are getting the low speed ones.

On a similar note, they kill the xeons as well in bang-for-your-buck in damn near every category, and they win in sheer performance as well, meaning that going with a xeon, unless you have special needs in one of the few areas they still have a slight advantage in, is also a foolhardy thing. Note that every one of my observations has been using the opteron as a strictly 32 bit chip ... if you ran your OS and apps in 64 bit (linux now or windows later) the speed advantage would be even more substantial, giving you another 10-20% shot in the arm.

Tempus · 12-10-2003, 01:09 PM

I talked to an AMD rep about this issue a few times. I'm an SMP kinda guy and I love having that power. They have restated a few times that the A64 and FX lines will not be getting SMP.

Its always possible that VIA will do something but I doubt it.

For A64-series SMP you need to get extra hypertransport connections to get the cross talk. They might be able to do it with out them but that would require a major change in design -- going back to the old northbridge style. And that really kills the performance advantage of the integrated memory controller.

Besides, opterons have a killer name.

Hellion_Prime · 12-19-2003, 12:01 PM

That makes sense. I'd love to get myself an opteron setup but I dont think my Toy budget will be up for it before spring/summer, if then. It would be interesting to see if VIA/et. al. do try to do a SMP chipset for the athlon64s. Could well end up being something akin to a modern BP6.

Oh well. I have a pair of 1.2ghz MPs in my workstation right now. and plan on upgrading them to barton cores soon as I can. That ought to last me a good while.

12-06-2003, 08:07 AM	#1
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	Future of AMD SMP... Not looking too damn good for the home user. It is looking like both the K8T800 and the nForce 3 support SMP which is good, however it is looking like SMP will only be offered in the 939 and 940 platforms and not the lower end 754 platform which is a lot more inline with a home budget (well my budget anyway). A shame, it is making me think I am just going to get ahold of an older socket 462 SMP board then mod it to use Bartons and run them at 150 fsb, which is already an antiquated platform now and I am trying to find something which will remain somwhat viable for at least a little while. Damn... If anyone has any data to prove otherwise PLEASE let me know. Also, does anyone have any data on the "Paris" CPU aside from linking me to an AMD roadmap? I know it is supposed to be a 32 bit 754 pin CPU aimed at budget users, and aimed at replacing the 462 pin CPUs. I am mainly looking at chipset/mobo compatibility, but any projected specs would be nice too. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

12-06-2003, 12:23 PM	#2
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I am gunna buy a Tyan Thunder K7X Pro , and I figure 2 3200+'s should keep those boards well fast enough for a few more years. my ThunderK7 w/ 2 2600+ MP's rock nicely __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

12-07-2003, 12:18 AM	#3
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Opterons are the only way to go. I'm using a mini-hammer (Athlon64) now and it is extremely impressive ... and I can see how it will be even more impressive with the wider memory interface. Face it: not all chips are meant to go dual, and AMD decided that only the Opteron 2XX series and up could do it. No 939 chips will ever run it. The reason is because of how they arranged the hypertransport links in the chip. What sucks for the little guy is there is no quick tinker to make cheap chips into SMP chips. You can get a mobo/SMP opteron kit for under $1000 with 242 chips, you know .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-07-2003, 12:20 PM	#4
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	Well that is true about the Opteron Kit Airspirit, it is worth looking into when I get back. I just wish it could be like the good old days of dual P3s and Athlon MPs... If anything Joe it is cool to know you have been using your dual 1400s for sometime and are happy with it. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

12-09-2003, 04:27 PM	#5
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Trust me, there is no comparison between the MPs and the opterons. Period. The speed of memory access on those things are sick, there is much better scaling, and they end up doing the SMP job that you want much better. While there is a decent penalty from using SMP on most platforms when running single processor apps (due to overhead and architecture), this is nearly eliminated on the Opteron platform (less that 5% in most test). At this point unless you are in dire cash needs (in which case why are you buying a dually?), there is no rational reason not to go for the opteron ... even if you are getting the low speed ones. On a similar note, they kill the xeons as well in bang-for-your-buck in damn near every category, and they win in sheer performance as well, meaning that going with a xeon, unless you have special needs in one of the few areas they still have a slight advantage in, is also a foolhardy thing. Note that every one of my observations has been using the opteron as a strictly 32 bit chip ... if you ran your OS and apps in 64 bit (linux now or windows later) the speed advantage would be even more substantial, giving you another 10-20% shot in the arm. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-10-2003, 01:09 PM	#6
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	I talked to an AMD rep about this issue a few times. I'm an SMP kinda guy and I love having that power. They have restated a few times that the A64 and FX lines will not be getting SMP. Its always possible that VIA will do something but I doubt it. For A64-series SMP you need to get extra hypertransport connections to get the cross talk. They might be able to do it with out them but that would require a major change in design -- going back to the old northbridge style. And that really kills the performance advantage of the integrated memory controller. Besides, opterons have a killer name. __________________ Thou art God.

12-19-2003, 12:01 PM	#7
Hellion_Prime Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arlington, MA, US Posts: 90	That makes sense. I'd love to get myself an opteron setup but I dont think my Toy budget will be up for it before spring/summer, if then. It would be interesting to see if VIA/et. al. do try to do a SMP chipset for the athlon64s. Could well end up being something akin to a modern BP6. Oh well. I have a pair of 1.2ghz MPs in my workstation right now. and plan on upgrading them to barton cores soon as I can. That ought to last me a good while. __________________ That which does not kill me had BETTER do enough damage to keep me from firing back!

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