Project Density

[superart]

you decided to go with 3/8" ID?

Why not 1/2"?

[KuniD]

The Black Ice Pro II I've been given is 3/8" (10mm)... of course I could always change the fittings.

Will it make that much of a difference going to 1/2"?

Also - Swiftech MCP600 or the Laing DCC? I'm reading good things about both.

[superart]

Originally Posted by KuniD

The Black Ice Pro II I've been given is 3/8" (10mm)... of course I could always change the fittings.

Will it make that much of a difference going to 1/2"?

Big difference.

[KuniD]

Anyone know of any articles comparing 3/8 vs 1/2?

[superart]

I remember seeing something about it on this site. I cant remember exactly what article, but the findings were that 1/2" is much better.

Look through the articles and reviews sections.

[HammerSandwich]

Let's not forget that - as with any engineering issue - it all boils down to the system. If you have a high-flow, low-head pump, then tubing size becomes more of a problem. If you're trying to flow 2GPM through a low-restriction block, then large tubing is justified. OTOH, if you have a DDC driving a G4/Storm, the loss from 3/8 isn't a large factor.

Sorry I can't dig up links right now.

[killernoodle]

The DCC should be fine with 3/8" tubing. I wouldnt worry about it.

[KuniD]

Looks like I'll be using a different motherboard to the one I planned - not a big change, the Iwill DK8EW instead of the ES.

Will mean that I'll have to wait till Feb before the board turns up Suppose it gives me a bit of extra time to get the parts I need for the cooling.

I'm going to be away on holiday from 26th > 18th Jan, so you all have a Merry Christmas and a happy NY'rs

[KuniD]

Think its time to get this going again!

Got stuck catching up on work, so haven't been able to put much time into this, but my schedules begining to calm down again so time to get back on the horse.

Here's the update; as mentioned before I'll be using the Iwill DK8EW mobo over the DK8ES, which means I won't get my hands on one till late March

Frustrating, although it allows me to get Cebit in before I go on a component buying frenzy. I'll be going to Cebit 11-14th March, so I'm going to make a provisional list for cooling stuff now, and then visit the watercooling companies to see what new stuff they have coming soon.

2x Swiftech MCW6000-64 (whats the difference between the 6000 and the 6002?)
2x Swiftech MCP650 (can't find any MCP600's in the UK 650's should be OK right?)

Now on the graphics front I think I have three cooling options for SLI 6800's. (/which ever SLI nVidia setup is available March/April.)

1) 2x Swiftech MCW50-03 VGA blocks + NV4045 6800 adapters

2) Gainwards SLI block (thinking about using Gainward cards, although I can imagine the price of this being jacked up)





or

3) ?Blocks?

Now I don't know much about these blocks, only what I've read in that thread. What do you guys think of them?

Out of three options I've listed above which one do you lot think will be the most effective? Any recommendations for other blocks?

[Butcher]

Thoughts:

1. CPU block - MCW6000 = 3/8" tubing, MCW6002 = 1/2" tubing. Performance is similar, use whichever the rest of your tubing fits.

2. VGA blocks - WRT option 3, the blocks I'm using. They are similar in design to the DD 6800 block, but asymmetric for easier mounting in an SLI setup. Source was H2OGun on the xtremesystems.org forums (one week lead time plus shipping from hong kong of 2 days). I got mine with polycarb tops, but he was also offering delrin as an alternative.
Things to note:
They're big and heavy, you may need some extra support for your cards.
They're quite restrictive, the MCP650 or MCP600 are definitely the sort of pump you'll be wanting. They look less restrictive than the innovatek blocks, but it's hard to say without seeing and testing both.
Mine came without barbs, but threaded with 1/4" NPT threads, I put some 40º barbs on, not sure how available they are for 3/8".

[Risky]

I'm looking at this and have to ask: Is this rig going to be overclocked? Because there are some serious server part in here and I can't imagine there will be too much joy. If the answer then you have a lot more leeway in designing the cooling as there is no performance to you in maximising the cooling of this system at the expense of all else.

You already have or are looking at a lot of 'European' parts and maybe you should continue and go with a 10mmOD setup rather that the 1/2"ID beloved in this forum. There is no questing that you can adequately cool the parts that way and imo, a few yards of 1/2" isn't exactly what you need in that case!

On rad placement, you could possible get the rad in the roof of the V2000, particularly if yyou were to consider having the exhaust fans external (with a suitably pretty grill, I guess). Theat you free up some bays as its a shame to have a huge case like that and be restricted to one 5.25 slot.

The SX8 is s striaght SAT adaptor. If you're building a system of this size and cost, surely a decent Raid5 controller is worth the money?

[KuniD]

Butcher what kind of support are you going to use for your cards?

[KuniD]

Originally Posted by Risky

I'm looking at this and have to ask: Is this rig going to be overclocked? Because there are some serious server part in here and I can't imagine there will be too much joy. If the answer then you have a lot more leeway in designing the cooling as there is no performance to you in maximising the cooling of this system at the expense of all else.

Unfortunately no overclocking There's very few Opteron motherboards that allow for it, and I doubt the Iwill will have any. I want to watercool both Opterons to keep the noise at a bare minimum, while also keeping them as cool as possible; if the cooling system is quite robust it'll be able to handle dual core Opterons which I'm looking to drop into the box Q1 06.

But I will be overclocking the hell out of which ever SLI setup I go for Maybe even TEC's

I know with 12 drives the systems going to be pretty noisy, but there's not much I can do to dampen the noise of those drives, I can with the CPU and Video cards.

You already have or are looking at a lot of 'European' parts and maybe you should continue and go with a 10mmOD setup rather that the 1/2"ID beloved in this forum. There is no questing that you can adequately cool the parts that way and imo, a few yards of 1/2" isn't exactly what you need in that case!

While I've used 1/2" in the past I think I'm going to stick with 3/8" for this system; with the blocks, rads and pumps I'm choosing it shouldn't be a problem.

On rad placement, you could possible get the rad in the roof of the V2000, particularly if yyou were to consider having the exhaust fans external (with a suitably pretty grill, I guess). Theat you free up some bays as its a shame to have a huge case like that and be restricted to one 5.25 slot.

I don't think thats possible; as the motherboard is housed in the upper compartment the upper edge of the mobo is right at the top of the case, less than an inch from the roof.

The SX8 is s striaght SAT adaptor. If you're building a system of this size and cost, surely a decent Raid5 controller is worth the money?

As I have to wait a little bit more before I can get the parts I want, I've had another look into whats going to be available, and around March time retailers should have the LSI Logic SATA 300-8X (PCI-X 64/133) for sale, which is a hardware SATAII-RAID controller. Being SATAII, it'll allow me to expand using port multipliers, so I may need to re-think the location of that dual 120 at some point in the future, if I ever want to expand with more drives.

[Risky]

Originally Posted by KuniD

Unfortunately no overclocking There's very few Opteron motherboards that allow for it, and I doubt the Iwill will have any. I want to watercool both Opterons to keep the noise at a bare minimum, while also keeping them as cool as possible; if the cooling system is quite robust it'll be able to handle dual core Opterons which I'm looking to drop into the box Q1 06.

But I will be overclocking the hell out of which ever SLI setup I go for Maybe even TEC's

If you end up on TECs the a GPU block only solution might be more effective than the block'n'ram options. The ram cooling is really something at the margins and may detract from the GPU cooling performance ( as well as making it impossible to mount a pell, come to think of it!). If you're relly hitting the card hard and want something for the ran though you could do a seperate mini-loop with these babies.

While I've used 1/2" in the past I think I'm going to stick with 3/8" for this system; with the blocks, rads and pumps I'm choosing it shouldn't be a problem.

Righto, If it helps Asetek sell kit with pushfits for 1/2" OD 3/8"ID, same as swiftek, however its not available in every reseller in europe.

I don't think thats possible; as the motherboard is housed in the upper compartment the upper edge of the mobo is right at the top of the case, less than an inch from the roof.

You're right. I was remembering the V1000 that strangely has a little more room there.

As I have to wait a little bit more before I can get the parts I want, I've had another look into whats going to be available, and around March time retailers should have the LSI Logic SATA 300-8Xfor sale, which is a hardware SATAII-RAID controller. Being SATAII, it'll allow me to expand using port multipliers, so I may need to re-think the location of that dual 120 at some point in the future, if I ever want to expand with more drives.

Nice card, makes my 2410SA look a bit limp

[Aronj66]

Have you considered using a laptop optical drive? the adaptors are cheap, and you just have to fab. a mount and face for it.

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by KuniD

Butcher what kind of support are you going to use for your cards?

The lower card is supposrted by the hoses hitting the bottom of the case.
The upper card I looped a piece of twine through a hole in the top corner furthest from the backplate and tied it to the drive cage to take the wight on that side - the backplate does for support on the other side of course.

[FL3JM]

You should DEFINATELY go for parallel style if your waterblocks aren't dependant on high water flow (ie. waterblocks with jets). I really don't get people who say that you should put the CPU's in series and the GPU's in series, have they skipped physics class? O_o
The higher Delta, the better cooling!
In your case you may have to get two pumps or one that can pump ALOT. Take into considerations that your rig is 2x a normal rig since you have 2x of everything we mortals have, except for the unearthly amount of harddrives ofcourse.

Well anyways, this principle applies to radiators aswell ofcourse. So for OPTIMAL cooling you should parallel the rads, not go gpu->rad1 and cpu->rad2, because if the gpu's generate less heat than the cpu's then the gpu rad can help along to cool the higher wattage emitted by the cpu's. BUT, since the gpu rad is smaller and thus probably less performing than the bigger cpu rad this might get alot more complicated. So i am kind of clueless as to setting up your rads for best performance. :shrug:

Well anyways, you should go for your parrallel schematics, but i strongly advise you to get two pumps since if the restriction in the cpu blocks is greater than in the gpu ones, the cpu blocks will suffer greatly (and even more if you set them up serially). With two pumps one will manage the gpu-side and the other will manage the cpu's. Since the gpu's are equally restrictive the waterflow will split evenly, likewise on the cpu side.

Oh well, just my 2 cents.

Btw... PHAT ASS RIG!!!!!!

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by FL3JM

You should DEFINATELY go for parallel style if your waterblocks aren't dependant on high water flow (ie. waterblocks with jets). I really don't get people who say that you should put the CPU's in series and the GPU's in series, have they skipped physics class? O_o
The higher Delta, the better cooling!

Total water temp delta across the whole system (i.e. hottest part to coldest) is generally below half a degree, it really doesn't make sense to go parallel since you cut flow through the blocks - more flow in the blocks is better.
Parallel rads is a reasonable idea since they are much less dependent on flow.

[Albigger]

Originally Posted by KuniD

Unfortunately no overclocking There's very few Opteron motherboards that allow for it, and I doubt the Iwill will have any. I want to watercool both Opterons to keep the noise at a bare minimum, while also keeping them as cool as possible; if the cooling system is quite robust it'll be able to handle dual core Opterons which I'm looking to drop into the box Q1 06.

But I will be overclocking the hell out of which ever SLI setup I go for Maybe even TEC's

Just want to alert you to this thread, where a guy has clocked his Opterons up at 2750mhz. Of course he's using dual vapochill's, but his motherboard is an Iwill DK8N so there might be some overclocking options available to you (or at least Clockgen).

Thread

[KuniD]

Guys, it turns out these NF4 dual Opteron boards are clocking up pretty well

2cpu - Tyan K8WE OC Thread

I'm getting tired of waiting for this Iwill to come along, so I'm now thinking about the K8WE; even more tempted by the price; £315 inc VAT and the fact that it'll be available in the next week or so at quite a few retailers


One of the guys on the 2cpu thread have mentioned that his RAM is getting quite hot when he starts to bump the speed, so I'm thinking I might as well add a third smaller loop for RAM and chipset.

Two things

1) Pumps; I've been thinking MCP350's over the 650's. Should I split the connection coming out of one of the pumps (as the RAM loop has to join in with one of the RAD's; prob the dual 120's).

2) I need recommendations for RAM blocks

[LOOP1] RES > MCP350 > CPU1 > CPU2 > DUAL80 RAD [/LOOP1]

                        GPU 1 >  GPU 2  > CHIPSET >
[LOOP2] RES > MCP350 {                               } > DUAL120 RAD [/LOOP2]
                        RAM1 > RAM2 > RAM3 > RAM4 >

Too much on Loop2? Dare I add another pump n rad!

[KuniD]

I've had a go at mapping out the system,



I forgot to label the large grey block under the res, its the DVD drive. Also the upper pump is only displayed in that position for illustrations sake, it would be side by side with the bottom pump.

The space in the PSU/dual80 rad compartment isn't useable either, as I'm going to put a second smaller SFX PSU (320w) in there to power the 6800's + pumps + fans. (The Antec will power the board + drives)

Now with the fans+dual120 rad mounted at the front 5.25" bays, it leaves a space behind (on top of the dvd) that is 140mm width x 100mm depth x 280mm height.

As I mentioned before I'm now looking at the MCP350 (DDC) over the MCP650 for a couple of reasons; a) the size, its a lot smaller, b) the flow drop off when you start adding blocks is quite low, while the 650 suffers quite a bit.

Now this 140x100x280 space needs to contain the res and pumps.

One option is to make a res box out of perspex/plexiglass; now I see this as more trouble than its worth, I doubt I have the skill to do a good job of it (ie no leaks/designing it in such a way that it won't crack). If I could find someone who can do this for me I'd more than happy to generously compensate them (hint ) It would supply both loops, and due to its dimensions should be able to hold 2litres +.

Otherwise I could buy two seperate res' for each loop. Looking at Trodas' thread he's made some excellent tank-o-matic style ones.

Now if I went for that kind of design (couldn't be 250mm like his reference design, 200mm tall max, to allow space at the bottom for tubing/barbs) each loop would have its own res, and it would look a 100 times better than a big res box, but wouldn't be able to hold much - 200ml's per res

Would I see a big difference in the way the WC system works if I had a res with 2litres or res' that can hold 200ml each? (400 total).

Trodas' style res would be better for the dual 120's air flow; with a large box res the cool air being blown through the rad would hit a wall once it got to the res. With the tube like res' this wouldn't be such a big issue as there would be space between them.

[KuniD]

Thinking about using SilenX fans for my radiators.

SilenX 120mm Specifications:

Fan Dimensions: 120 x 120 x 25mm
Fan Input: 12V/1.2W
Fan Speed: 1600 RPM
Air Flow: 58 CFM
Noise Level: 14 dBA



SilenX 80mm Specifications:

Fan Dimensions: 80 x 80 x 25mm
Fan Input: 12V/1.2W
Fan Speed: 1900 RPM
Air Flow: 28 CFM
Noise Level: 14 dBA

Will two of the 120's pushing 58CFM @ 1600RPM (14dBA) be enough airflow for a Black Ice II Dual 120 rad?

Like wise with the 80's pushing 28CFM @ 1600RPM (14dBA), will this be enough airflow for the Black Ice Micro II dual 80 rad?

[Etacovda]

14dBA is a gross understatement, just so you know.

There are other cheaper options open to you, if you want to look for them. Have a look around at silentpcreview.com

[killme413]

Nice hardware =) im swedish so sorry if my english is not the best.
But KuniD, first of all, why would you need the lowest temperatures? If you'r not going for maximum overclock of the cpu's then there's no need what so ever to obtain the lowest temps is there? But i do understand that you want to keep the parts cool, but huting for a few degrees is unnessisary.

3/8" is easy and takes less space so i would go with that (i do use that)

MCP350 (DCC) is alot smaller, alot more quite (iv heard a sound test), more efficent, has VERY good pressure and in a hookup with a few blocks and rads it will almost have the same flow, but draws less power and doesn't heat the water as much. It also has an flow indicator so you can connect it to your motherboard for the computer to shut down if the pump fail. Using 2 MCP 350 in dual loop would be awsome.

Then why would you want 4L of water!?? The size of the tank is unimportante, it only affects how long it takes for the system to level in temp... 4l would after say 20min give you exactly the same temp as 100ml. Ok maybe the water radiates SOME heat throuh the walls of the tank but it's neglectable. The tank is only there to make it easy to fill the system and get rid of bubbles. I use no tank at all =)

If i were you, cuz you dont really need the lowest temps anyway, i would make a QUITE, SEXY, CLEAN lookin system. Why not using a single waterblock on the side of all the disks? Thats more that enough cooling for them. Besides the top and buttom of the disk doesn't really transfer that much heat. Its the sides that are thick metal. Surround the watercooled disks with demping material, preferrbly someting high density like rubber.
Slow down the fans and use two watercooled 430W PSU's.
Wohoo and you have a silent super-sweet system. Modify the case! than you will me more proud of the system!

Have a look at my system if you want. It's 1½ years old now, and i didn't write the text so dont flame me The sound level of my system is nothing! it's impossible to hear if it's on or not (fans at 5 volts), you can do that for your system aswell if you want to!

http://homes.drzeus.cx/~thrasher/killme/

Good luck with your systsem!!

[killme413]

hmm and why would you want to push warm air from the radiators into the case?? reverse the fans and the warm air would be pushed out insted? leaving the case nice and cold inside. And yeah, you prolly shuld watercool the chipset cause it gets hoot and if you dont want noise it's a must =)
But watercooled RAM?.....
whyyyy would you need that whe ram-sinks do more than fine? but hey, it's sexy so why not.