Sigh. . .Think I Know My Problem. . .BUT. .. - Page 2

Fixittt · 05-19-2002, 02:18 PM

if you have a res and it is totally sealed, then there is no way for air ro excape the system, and with a big pump you will be churning the water and re intodusing the air back into the system.

run a t and a hose going to the very top of the system, and leave it open. Or drill and tap a hole in the top of the res, and put a fitting in it, then run your bleed tube up. And add coolant to the system using the bleed tube.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 03:24 PM

Well temps are now down to 50, so air could be an issue. When I have a lil time, I'll install that T and let that tube just sit there to evacuate air. The res is sealed. I have a DangerDen reservoir (found at Cooltechnica).

Having the fans in push pull has resulted in the best temps so far.

I think the waterblock is still an issue because I have one incorrect fitting.

Rad is at the bottom and the res is at the highest point.

bigben2k · 05-19-2002, 05:21 PM

It looks like you've got another problem altogether (i.e. not air). if you're using a shim, then you might ned to lap it, because it may be too thick (shims are not girly!). If you suspect that your WB mount is at fault, you're probably right.

I'd still try straight water, just for comparison.

deeznuts · 05-20-2002, 03:20 AM

i tell you this - as mentioned earlier, a 1250 just sometimes won't work with a res. happened to me, 3 different dubro tanks, no go. put in a T-fitting, bam, all visible air was out within a couple of hours.

Brad · 05-20-2002, 06:04 AM

how hot is your radiator? your ambient of 30C is really high, I think you should be troubleshooting the radiator before you start on the block, it's a maze 3 thats been lapped and mounted down far enough, it will be fine

Alaric_2000 · 05-20-2002, 04:44 PM

To the touch it's not warm at all. Neither are my hoses. All are cool. It was cold as hell in the house this morning and my case temps were still 28C.

I also ran the rad outside of the case and that didn't make a difference either =(

Nordic · 05-20-2002, 07:24 PM

When the water level in my airtrap/res get below the intake, bubbles form from the splashing and get sucked into the system. When the bubbles pass the pump - they turn into foam. If that raises temperatures significantly, I'm not surprised, but I've never found out if it's significant before filling up the system.

What I've found is that an air-trap must be designed so that:

the stream of water is not rippling the surface causing bubbles (low placement of intake helps)
the path traveled by the stream inside the res is as long as is practically required (to prevent passing along the air bubbles)

FYI, I tried a "T" before I gave up and added the airtrap/res I have now. A "T" simply could not get rid of the air in my system and the pump would keep churning out foam. My "T" was placed before the intake of the pump and I guess that and the design of my system made that a bad combo, it has worked for others.

sn1per · 05-20-2002, 07:30 PM

you said you are using AS3...well...AS3 is kinda tricky....here is why:

with air cooling, the vibration of the fan on the heat sink and with the heat being produced from the cpu, the AS3 will cure and settle pretty quickly. Usually a couple of days to maybe 5 at most.

with water cooling, you have the heat being produced, but also being removed a little quicker. Also, you do not get the vibration with water cooling that you do with air cooling. So because of this, the thin layer of AS3 isn't settling as fast as the air cooled setup.

on my 1.4 t-bird...as3, swiftech mcx370...for the first week my temps were in the 50's on the CPU, with a case temp in the upper 20's to 30c....they have since settled down to about 10 to 15c over my case temp with air cooling...now water cooling on that same cpu...i was in the 50's with about the same exact case temps as you for a good 2 weeks.....after about 2 weeks my temps came down into the mid 40's...and now a month later...they are just a few degree's over case temp...

what i did to make the curing go a little faster...i left my h2o system running, but i powered on the computer, let it boot up, then shut it off after a minute or 2....then i did the same thing over a couple of times....i went from waiting for ever on my temps to settle to just barely over night....

how i apply my as3...very small amount to the core....using a lint free cloth, i rub it into the core...then i take another small amount of the as3, and use a razer blade to give me a very nice smooth surface that is very thing...then to the bottom of my block..i use the lint free cloth (after cleaning the block with rubbing alcohol many times) and rub in a small amount of as3 to the center of the block (the area where the core will rest)...this has always worked best for me....im also using a smaller 1048 pump...so this could also be the reason mine took so long to settle...

im not saying this will work for you..i just wanted to give a little insite as to what happened with me and my temps and my experience with it....everyone else has very good points on what to check out....air in the system...this is a biggy and i just found out recently with a p4 system the difference between a little air and no air in the lines....im a little skeptical though with the block since you keep bringing up the problems with the mounting hardware.....the shim...not for wimps at all, but lapping one could make all the difference in the world....as for the air flow through your radiator....whatever they say...im a no0b there and would be of very little help...i hope you get it figured out, cuz i hate seein' high temps with h2o units...good luck, and get us some pics soon ;D

Alaric_2000 · 05-21-2002, 05:57 AM

Well the shim should be here at the end of the week. I'll probably have the mounting hardware tomorrow. So Saturday morning I'll be draining my system. Remounting my block and adding my bleeder tube. It's funny. . .my case temps now are 31C with my CPU at 51C. When my case temps go down to 28C (no heat running, etc) my CPU temp goes down to 50C. Crazy W/C =)

bigben2k · 05-21-2002, 07:48 AM

Alaric: exactly which Dtek rad are you using?

Alaric_2000 · 05-21-2002, 04:55 PM

I'm using the ProCore

Alaric_2000 · 05-25-2002, 01:23 AM

Hey folks. Just wanted to give you all an update.

I got the new mounting hardware. Remounted and even reworked hoses. Using a shim now too. I realized my wb wasn't down nearly as far as it should be before, and it's definitely as far down as it will go now. With an ambient temp of 28C, I'm at 48C idle. Definitely an improvement. When should temps stabilize? I'm thinking it should be going lower (I have had it running for 2 hrs now).

Alaric_2000 · 05-25-2002, 01:49 AM

Guys, I hate being such a n00b and asking silly questions that I prolly already know the answer to, but in the water in my burp tube, I see some lil tiny bubbles floating up. And I mean TINY!!!!!! I think that's good and it's getting the air out. . .right?

bigben2k · 05-25-2002, 09:14 AM

Measure your water temp, and see how long it takes to stabilize.

If you still have tiny bubbles, you'll be ok. Just keep an eye on it. If it goes on for more than a few days, then you'll need to tighten up a clamp here and there...

Alaric_2000 · 05-25-2002, 09:49 AM

Well I finally got all the air out, so I'm actually humming along. Ambient temps of 29C and idle temp of 49C.

Gonna wait a few hours and see if temps lower a bit

Alaric_2000 · 05-26-2002, 10:23 AM

I put my old case fans back in. I also put one of the drive cages back in that has the fan in it. In that I put my res. Temps are averaging 47C. I also cut a hole in my front bezel and my intake rad fan is sitting basically outside of the case sucking the air in. I'm definitely getting better temps with both fans running in the push-pull config. But I would love to see these temps drop to around 42-43C

Divided · 05-26-2002, 10:52 AM

so now as a forum we're saying the Eheim 1048 is better than the Eheim 1250?

Alaric_2000 · 05-26-2002, 11:04 AM

That is what it seems, isn't it? =)

Alaric_2000 · 05-26-2002, 11:27 AM

Well it appears my temperature problems may not be problems at all. A bunch of ppl on amdmb.com have been reporting temps as high as mine (or higher). Turns out, this mobo reports up to 12-15C higher than it really is. So instead of 49C idle, I'm really at between 34-37C idle!

WOOWOO!!!

Cyco-Dude · 05-26-2002, 12:09 PM

the only way to find out is to get a good thermal probe and use that to measure the temps.

also, did it report such high temps when you were using a HSF (or did you just build this from the ground up and skipped a HSF?)

Alaric_2000 · 05-26-2002, 02:26 PM

I was getting like 54-55C with the HSF

Cyco-Dude · 05-26-2002, 07:09 PM

ew

and u had the Swiftech MCX462? what fan? damn, that MoBo sensor must be waaaaaay off, either that, or the 2100+ is a hella hot running CPU...

Alaric_2000 · 05-27-2002, 07:23 AM

That was with a with a Sanyo-Denki PetitAce32 (53cfm). Plus 7 case fans =)

I really think it's the mobo. I saw some ppl with the retail AMD hsf running at 63C idle.

Stepback · 05-27-2002, 08:15 AM

The temps you are getting are normal. Let me explian why. The motherboard you have uses the XP internal diode for CPU temp the diode in inside the core. Unlike themocouple under the CPu or and insocket themocouple.

Checkout this thread http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...threadid=89493

And You might want to read pHaestus Amd diode How2 on the front page here http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...rmal_dio.shtml

Alaric_2000 · 05-27-2002, 08:43 AM

I know it reads the diode, that's one of the main reasons I got this mobo. What I'm saying is that I think it reads it incorrectly (or reads it correctly and calibrates it high). Very rarely do you see this thing (from anyone) drop under 40C.

As a side note, using CPUIdle I can get my temps down to 42C.

05-19-2002, 02:18 PM	#26
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	if you have a res and it is totally sealed, then there is no way for air ro excape the system, and with a big pump you will be churning the water and re intodusing the air back into the system. run a t and a hose going to the very top of the system, and leave it open. Or drill and tap a hole in the top of the res, and put a fitting in it, then run your bleed tube up. And add coolant to the system using the bleed tube. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

05-19-2002, 05:21 PM	#28
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It looks like you've got another problem altogether (i.e. not air). if you're using a shim, then you might ned to lap it, because it may be too thick (shims are not girly!). If you suspect that your WB mount is at fault, you're probably right. I'd still try straight water, just for comparison. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-20-2002, 06:04 AM	#30
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	how hot is your radiator? your ambient of 30C is really high, I think you should be troubleshooting the radiator before you start on the block, it's a maze 3 thats been lapped and mounted down far enough, it will be fine __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-20-2002, 07:24 PM	#32
Nordic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 98	When the water level in my airtrap/res get below the intake, bubbles form from the splashing and get sucked into the system. When the bubbles pass the pump - they turn into foam. If that raises temperatures significantly, I'm not surprised, but I've never found out if it's significant before filling up the system. What I've found is that an air-trap must be designed so that: the stream of water is not rippling the surface causing bubbles (low placement of intake helps) the path traveled by the stream inside the res is as long as is practically required (to prevent passing along the air bubbles) FYI, I tried a "T" before I gave up and added the airtrap/res I have now. A "T" simply could not get rid of the air in my system and the pump would keep churning out foam. My "T" was placed before the intake of the pump and I guess that and the design of my system made that a bad combo, it has worked for others. __________________ Pump:Eheim 1048, Radiator:LPD radiator 100x150x20mm, CPU block:DD Maze-2, GPU block: DD GPU block, Chipset block:Zalman NB32 AMD XP 1500+, EpoX 8K7A, PoV GF3Ti200 Pic of my YY-cube

05-21-2002, 07:48 AM	#35
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Alaric: exactly which Dtek rad are you using? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-19-2002, 03:24 PM	#27
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Well temps are now down to 50, so air could be an issue. When I have a lil time, I'll install that T and let that tube just sit there to evacuate air. The res is sealed. I have a DangerDen reservoir (found at Cooltechnica). Having the fans in push pull has resulted in the best temps so far. I think the waterblock is still an issue because I have one incorrect fitting. Rad is at the bottom and the res is at the highest point.

05-20-2002, 03:20 AM	#29
deeznuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: san diego Posts: 142	i tell you this - as mentioned earlier, a 1250 just sometimes won't work with a res. happened to me, 3 different dubro tanks, no go. put in a T-fitting, bam, all visible air was out within a couple of hours.

05-20-2002, 04:44 PM	#31
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	To the touch it's not warm at all. Neither are my hoses. All are cool. It was cold as hell in the house this morning and my case temps were still 28C. I also ran the rad outside of the case and that didn't make a difference either =(

05-20-2002, 07:30 PM	#33
sn1per Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11	you said you are using AS3...well...AS3 is kinda tricky....here is why: with air cooling, the vibration of the fan on the heat sink and with the heat being produced from the cpu, the AS3 will cure and settle pretty quickly. Usually a couple of days to maybe 5 at most. with water cooling, you have the heat being produced, but also being removed a little quicker. Also, you do not get the vibration with water cooling that you do with air cooling. So because of this, the thin layer of AS3 isn't settling as fast as the air cooled setup. on my 1.4 t-bird...as3, swiftech mcx370...for the first week my temps were in the 50's on the CPU, with a case temp in the upper 20's to 30c....they have since settled down to about 10 to 15c over my case temp with air cooling...now water cooling on that same cpu...i was in the 50's with about the same exact case temps as you for a good 2 weeks.....after about 2 weeks my temps came down into the mid 40's...and now a month later...they are just a few degree's over case temp... what i did to make the curing go a little faster...i left my h2o system running, but i powered on the computer, let it boot up, then shut it off after a minute or 2....then i did the same thing over a couple of times....i went from waiting for ever on my temps to settle to just barely over night.... how i apply my as3...very small amount to the core....using a lint free cloth, i rub it into the core...then i take another small amount of the as3, and use a razer blade to give me a very nice smooth surface that is very thing...then to the bottom of my block..i use the lint free cloth (after cleaning the block with rubbing alcohol many times) and rub in a small amount of as3 to the center of the block (the area where the core will rest)...this has always worked best for me....im also using a smaller 1048 pump...so this could also be the reason mine took so long to settle... im not saying this will work for you..i just wanted to give a little insite as to what happened with me and my temps and my experience with it....everyone else has very good points on what to check out....air in the system...this is a biggy and i just found out recently with a p4 system the difference between a little air and no air in the lines....im a little skeptical though with the block since you keep bringing up the problems with the mounting hardware.....the shim...not for wimps at all, but lapping one could make all the difference in the world....as for the air flow through your radiator....whatever they say...im a no0b there and would be of very little help...i hope you get it figured out, cuz i hate seein' high temps with h2o units...good luck, and get us some pics soon ;D

05-21-2002, 05:57 AM	#34
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Well the shim should be here at the end of the week. I'll probably have the mounting hardware tomorrow. So Saturday morning I'll be draining my system. Remounting my block and adding my bleeder tube. It's funny. . .my case temps now are 31C with my CPU at 51C. When my case temps go down to 28C (no heat running, etc) my CPU temp goes down to 50C. Crazy W/C =)

05-21-2002, 04:55 PM	#36
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I'm using the ProCore

05-25-2002, 01:23 AM	#37
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Hey folks. Just wanted to give you all an update. I got the new mounting hardware. Remounted and even reworked hoses. Using a shim now too. I realized my wb wasn't down nearly as far as it should be before, and it's definitely as far down as it will go now. With an ambient temp of 28C, I'm at 48C idle. Definitely an improvement. When should temps stabilize? I'm thinking it should be going lower (I have had it running for 2 hrs now).

05-25-2002, 01:49 AM	#38
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Guys, I hate being such a n00b and asking silly questions that I prolly already know the answer to, but in the water in my burp tube, I see some lil tiny bubbles floating up. And I mean TINY!!!!!! I think that's good and it's getting the air out. . .right?

05-25-2002, 09:14 AM	#39
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Measure your water temp, and see how long it takes to stabilize. If you still have tiny bubbles, you'll be ok. Just keep an eye on it. If it goes on for more than a few days, then you'll need to tighten up a clamp here and there... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-25-2002, 09:49 AM	#40
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Well I finally got all the air out, so I'm actually humming along. Ambient temps of 29C and idle temp of 49C. Gonna wait a few hours and see if temps lower a bit

05-26-2002, 10:23 AM	#41
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I put my old case fans back in. I also put one of the drive cages back in that has the fan in it. In that I put my res. Temps are averaging 47C. I also cut a hole in my front bezel and my intake rad fan is sitting basically outside of the case sucking the air in. I'm definitely getting better temps with both fans running in the push-pull config. But I would love to see these temps drop to around 42-43C

05-26-2002, 10:52 AM	#42
Divided Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: NY, USA Posts: 81	so now as a forum we're saying the Eheim 1048 is better than the Eheim 1250? __________________ Pentium IV 1.8A NW @ 2.65Ghz Alpha Heatsink w/ Panaflo H1A ASUS P4S533 Mobo 512Mb Mushkin Level2 DDR-SDRAM VisonTek GeForce3 Ti500 (254/540Mhz) 2 x 60Gig Seagate HD's W.D. Caviar 8Mb Buffer - 80Gig HD HighPoint Rocket404 Raid Controller Plextor 40/12/40A CD-RW

05-26-2002, 11:04 AM	#43
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	That is what it seems, isn't it? =)

05-26-2002, 11:27 AM	#44
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Well it appears my temperature problems may not be problems at all. A bunch of ppl on amdmb.com have been reporting temps as high as mine (or higher). Turns out, this mobo reports up to 12-15C higher than it really is. So instead of 49C idle, I'm really at between 34-37C idle! WOOWOO!!!

05-26-2002, 12:09 PM	#45
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	the only way to find out is to get a good thermal probe and use that to measure the temps. also, did it report such high temps when you were using a HSF (or did you just build this from the ground up and skipped a HSF?)

05-26-2002, 02:26 PM	#46
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I was getting like 54-55C with the HSF

05-26-2002, 07:09 PM	#47
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	ew and u had the Swiftech MCX462? what fan? damn, that MoBo sensor must be waaaaaay off, either that, or the 2100+ is a hella hot running CPU... Last edited by Cyco-Dude; 05-26-2002 at 07:13 PM.

05-27-2002, 07:23 AM	#48
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	That was with a with a Sanyo-Denki PetitAce32 (53cfm). Plus 7 case fans =) I really think it's the mobo. I saw some ppl with the retail AMD hsf running at 63C idle.

05-27-2002, 08:15 AM	#49
Stepback Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 52	The temps you are getting are normal. Let me explian why. The motherboard you have uses the XP internal diode for CPU temp the diode in inside the core. Unlike themocouple under the CPu or and insocket themocouple. Checkout this thread http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...threadid=89493 And You might want to read pHaestus Amd diode How2 on the front page here http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...rmal_dio.shtml __________________ Stepback Maintaining today for a better tommorrow.

05-27-2002, 08:43 AM	#50
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I know it reads the diode, that's one of the main reasons I got this mobo. What I'm saying is that I think it reads it incorrectly (or reads it correctly and calibrates it high). Very rarely do you see this thing (from anyone) drop under 40C. As a side note, using CPUIdle I can get my temps down to 42C.

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