Sigh. . .Think I Know My Problem. . .BUT. ..

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 06:42 AM

Hey folks. I've been lurking here and I wanna start by thanking everyone for their discussion. Without this board I'd still have 6,000 fans in my case =) Anyways. . .

I just installed my new w/c rig (Maze3, Dtek Heatercore (shrouded with 2x120mm YSTech 131cfm fans@7V), Ehiem 1250, DD Res. I've mounted my waterblock 3 times now and I'm getting similar performance. I applied a thin layer of ASIII then screwed the block on. Visually lining up all nuts until they were even and almost all compressed (they're not completely compress, but durned close) The temps are a constant 51C with an ambient of 30C. Now. . .where I think the problem is starts with the mounting hardware. Cooltechnica sent one nylon thread which is too small. The diameter is definitely 6/32", but the otherones are a bit bigger (1/4"?). I have a feeling this is causing the block to not sit properly on the cpu.

If it is anything other than that, I think I'm stuck.

I emailed Cooltechnica for new hardware.

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 06:48 AM

Try lapping your waterblock with 220, 330, and last 600 grit sandpaper along with the new mounting hardware. There's probably not much else that you've missed. Your components look good.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 06:52 AM

Lapped with 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000 =)

JimS · 05-19-2002, 06:59 AM

Check the imprint the AS makes on the block after you have screwed it down. If the imprint looks good, your problem lies elsewhere.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 07:04 AM

Yeah, I have, and the imprint looks good. Any suggestions as to what I could investigate?

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 07:38 AM

What kind of motherboard are you using? Many of them read the thermistor wrong. I've not myself experianced temps this bad with the thermistor but I've heard of others with up to 10c off.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 07:42 AM

I'm using an Asus A7V333

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 07:49 AM

Asus are one of the main ones I've heard of with a problem. You might want to check in the bios. That board will read your xp diode at least in the bios. It may from windows also but I know for sure that it reads from the bios or at least mine does. Yours should have cop just like mine. I have an A7S333 and mine reads good but I'm swearing of via untill they fix all thier stuff.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 08:00 AM

Yeah, I am seeing the same temps in the BIOS too.

Just watching the water go thru the system, it appears to have a decent flowrate. Water is spitting out of my return to my res.

One thing I did notice is that my lines are cool to the touch. There doesn't appear to be any warmer water.

pHaestus · 05-19-2002, 08:11 AM

A7V333 reportedly reads the XP's internal diode. Maybe your temps aren't so far off (and everyone else's are artificially low)? What CPU and voltage? 51C is load or idle?

Cyco-Dude · 05-19-2002, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alaric_2000 I just installed my new w/c rig (Maze3, Dtek Heatercore (shrouded with 2x120mm YSTech 131cfm fans@7V), Ehiem 1250, DD Res.

DD res? Danger Den res or...??
and if it is a DDen res, whered you get it from?

try turning your fans to full 12 volts and see what the temps are then...

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 08:42 AM

Aye, DangerDen Reservoir from cooltechnica.com

I'll try putting the fans at 12V soon.

I'm at 51C idle 55C loaded (that's at least lower than air)

I was HOPING to see temps in the 40C's.

Thanks!!

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 08:46 AM

Oh sorry I didn't notice your fans were running at half juice. Full juice would help the temps at the expense of noise. There's no way around it even for water cooling.

Cyco-Dude · 05-19-2002, 08:56 AM

heh, didnt know they came out yet. theres no news of them on DDens site...

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 09:00 AM

Yeah, they're out. Pretty sweet too, but they NEEEEEEEEEED teflon tape on all of the fittings.

Don't you guys think those temps are awfully high tho? I mean I'm getting 75cfm per fan (push-pull) at 7V.

These temps are actually WORSE than my Swiftech MCX462.

EDIT: Looks like temps @ 12V are coming down a bit (Just hit 49C vs 51C@7V)

Cyco-Dude · 05-19-2002, 09:12 AM

what CPU do you have, and what voltage is it running at? how is your rad getting air? is is sucking in cool air from outside of the case, or what? where is the rad mounted in your case (and what case do you have)?
you might not have applied enough thermal paste (you shouldnt be able to see the core).
but my guess is theres air in your system. since you block has a clear top, it should be easy to spot air pockets. if i where you, id unbolt the rad, and turn it upside down, shake it around, etc. to make sure no air pockets are in it. try that and see what happens, becuase unless you're running a high-wattage pelt on a high-end and over-volted CPU, those temps are too high.

also, whats the ID of the tubing you are using??

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 09:22 AM

I have one of my systems thats using the same heater core with 1 panaflo fan thats pulling air through the radiator and it gets about 42c at idle. This system was made for noise control so this temp is good enough. That was with an xp 1900 not overclocked.

Billa over at overclockers has stated that 2 fans in that setup will decrease airflow. Not sure how. You may want to try using 1 fan at full 12v pulling air through the rad.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 09:32 AM

XP 2100+
1.78V
Inside Of Case << Fan << Rad << Fan << Outside of Case
Bottom Front
Antec SX1240
Nice thin layer of AS3 (enough to coat the core, but not more)

I would say that if the water is foamy, there's too much air, huh? It's VERY cloudy. Should I open the top of my res to let the air out? Let it cycle with the top off?

I'm using Tygon R-3603 ID 3/8" with a 1/8" wall.

webmedic · 05-19-2002, 09:50 AM

If it's foamy it's one of two things. You either have a leak in your system. You don't want to here the last one. It's your res get rid of it and just use a t to bleed the air out. That pump is two powerfull and will always cause foam in your system when using a resevore.

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 09:52 AM

I think I had too much WW in the system. When I diluted it, it was much less foamy. One thing I do see is a spiral of air bubbles through the entire system.

Cieprus · 05-19-2002, 09:56 AM

Do you have a pressue gauge anywhere?

Try adding one right after the pumps outlet, to see what its working agenst.

Do you have pics anywhere?

Quote:

Yeah, they're out. Pretty sweet too, but they NEEEEEEEEEED teflo

Maybe the teflon is slightly blocking some of the fittings?

Well I hope you fix it

:shrug:

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 09:56 AM

Nope, no pressure gauge or pics =(

Cyco-Dude · 05-19-2002, 10:05 AM

well how long has the system been running? just let it run and it should get the small air bubbles out. make sure your res is filled up all (so the water lever is above the top hose fitting).
how much WW did you add? did you mix it 4 ounces per gallon? or did you just dump some into your system w/o measuring?

Alaric_2000 · 05-19-2002, 10:17 AM

I have 4 ounces in there now.

Measured

It's been running for less than 24 hours

bigben2k · 05-19-2002, 11:39 AM

Even though you're running an Athlon 2100+, your temps should be lower. The 2100 though is the hottest of them all.

If you've monted the WB 3 times already, then the problem is something else.

The first question is: how do you know that the temp is 51/55?

Running a push-pull fan configuration really won't help the airflow, you'd be better off using both fans side by side, to push air through. Right now your two fans act almost exactly as one.

If you're using an Eheim 1250, then you may be rushing water through too fast. if you can, try to restrict the waterflow (get creative, like pinch a hose).

You may have an air leak, but more importantly, you may have a lot of air in your system. Is your rad at the bottom or top of your case? Do you have an air trap, or just a fill tube?

If you're worried about the coolant, then try straight water (just as a test).

If you're using a shim, then it may be too thick. (shims are NOT girly)

05-19-2002, 06:42 AM	#1
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Sigh. . .Think I Know My Problem. . .BUT. .. Hey folks. I've been lurking here and I wanna start by thanking everyone for their discussion. Without this board I'd still have 6,000 fans in my case =) Anyways. . . I just installed my new w/c rig (Maze3, Dtek Heatercore (shrouded with 2x120mm YSTech 131cfm fans@7V), Ehiem 1250, DD Res. I've mounted my waterblock 3 times now and I'm getting similar performance. I applied a thin layer of ASIII then screwed the block on. Visually lining up all nuts until they were even and almost all compressed (they're not completely compress, but durned close) The temps are a constant 51C with an ambient of 30C. Now. . .where I think the problem is starts with the mounting hardware. Cooltechnica sent one nylon thread which is too small. The diameter is definitely 6/32", but the otherones are a bit bigger (1/4"?). I have a feeling this is causing the block to not sit properly on the cpu. If it is anything other than that, I think I'm stuck. I emailed Cooltechnica for new hardware.

05-19-2002, 06:48 AM	#2
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Try lapping your waterblock with 220, 330, and last 600 grit sandpaper along with the new mounting hardware. There's probably not much else that you've missed. Your components look good. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 07:38 AM	#6
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	What kind of motherboard are you using? Many of them read the thermistor wrong. I've not myself experianced temps this bad with the thermistor but I've heard of others with up to 10c off. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 07:49 AM	#8
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Asus are one of the main ones I've heard of with a problem. You might want to check in the bios. That board will read your xp diode at least in the bios. It may from windows also but I know for sure that it reads from the bios or at least mine does. Yours should have cop just like mine. I have an A7S333 and mine reads good but I'm swearing of via untill they fix all thier stuff. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 08:46 AM	#13
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Oh sorry I didn't notice your fans were running at half juice. Full juice would help the temps at the expense of noise. There's no way around it even for water cooling. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 06:52 AM	#3
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Lapped with 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000 =)

05-19-2002, 06:59 AM	#4
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Check the imprint the AS makes on the block after you have screwed it down. If the imprint looks good, your problem lies elsewhere.

05-19-2002, 07:04 AM	#5
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Yeah, I have, and the imprint looks good. Any suggestions as to what I could investigate?

05-19-2002, 07:42 AM	#7
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I'm using an Asus A7V333

05-19-2002, 08:00 AM	#9
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Yeah, I am seeing the same temps in the BIOS too. Just watching the water go thru the system, it appears to have a decent flowrate. Water is spitting out of my return to my res. One thing I did notice is that my lines are cool to the touch. There doesn't appear to be any warmer water.

05-19-2002, 08:11 AM	#10
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	A7V333 reportedly reads the XP's internal diode. Maybe your temps aren't so far off (and everyone else's are artificially low)? What CPU and voltage? 51C is load or idle?

05-19-2002, 08:42 AM	#12
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Aye, DangerDen Reservoir from cooltechnica.com I'll try putting the fans at 12V soon. I'm at 51C idle 55C loaded (that's at least lower than air) I was HOPING to see temps in the 40C's. Thanks!!

05-19-2002, 08:56 AM	#14
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	heh, didnt know they came out yet. theres no news of them on DDens site...

05-19-2002, 09:00 AM	#15
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Yeah, they're out. Pretty sweet too, but they NEEEEEEEEEED teflon tape on all of the fittings. Don't you guys think those temps are awfully high tho? I mean I'm getting 75cfm per fan (push-pull) at 7V. These temps are actually WORSE than my Swiftech MCX462. EDIT: Looks like temps @ 12V are coming down a bit (Just hit 49C vs 51C@7V) Last edited by Alaric_2000; 05-19-2002 at 09:03 AM.

05-19-2002, 09:12 AM	#16
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	what CPU do you have, and what voltage is it running at? how is your rad getting air? is is sucking in cool air from outside of the case, or what? where is the rad mounted in your case (and what case do you have)? you might not have applied enough thermal paste (you shouldnt be able to see the core). but my guess is theres air in your system. since you block has a clear top, it should be easy to spot air pockets. if i where you, id unbolt the rad, and turn it upside down, shake it around, etc. to make sure no air pockets are in it. try that and see what happens, becuase unless you're running a high-wattage pelt on a high-end and over-volted CPU, those temps are too high. also, whats the ID of the tubing you are using??

05-19-2002, 09:22 AM	#17
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	I have one of my systems thats using the same heater core with 1 panaflo fan thats pulling air through the radiator and it gets about 42c at idle. This system was made for noise control so this temp is good enough. That was with an xp 1900 not overclocked. Billa over at overclockers has stated that 2 fans in that setup will decrease airflow. Not sure how. You may want to try using 1 fan at full 12v pulling air through the rad. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 09:32 AM	#18
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	XP 2100+ 1.78V Inside Of Case << Fan << Rad << Fan << Outside of Case Bottom Front Antec SX1240 Nice thin layer of AS3 (enough to coat the core, but not more) I would say that if the water is foamy, there's too much air, huh? It's VERY cloudy. Should I open the top of my res to let the air out? Let it cycle with the top off? I'm using Tygon R-3603 ID 3/8" with a 1/8" wall.

05-19-2002, 09:50 AM	#19
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	If it's foamy it's one of two things. You either have a leak in your system. You don't want to here the last one. It's your res get rid of it and just use a t to bleed the air out. That pump is two powerfull and will always cause foam in your system when using a resevore. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-19-2002, 09:52 AM	#20
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I think I had too much WW in the system. When I diluted it, it was much less foamy. One thing I do see is a spiral of air bubbles through the entire system.

05-19-2002, 09:56 AM	#22
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	Nope, no pressure gauge or pics =(

05-19-2002, 10:05 AM	#23
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	well how long has the system been running? just let it run and it should get the small air bubbles out. make sure your res is filled up all (so the water lever is above the top hose fitting). how much WW did you add? did you mix it 4 ounces per gallon? or did you just dump some into your system w/o measuring?

05-19-2002, 10:17 AM	#24
Alaric_2000 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 47	I have 4 ounces in there now. Measured It's been running for less than 24 hours

05-19-2002, 11:39 AM	#25
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Even though you're running an Athlon 2100+, your temps should be lower. The 2100 though is the hottest of them all. If you've monted the WB 3 times already, then the problem is something else. The first question is: how do you know that the temp is 51/55? Running a push-pull fan configuration really won't help the airflow, you'd be better off using both fans side by side, to push air through. Right now your two fans act almost exactly as one. If you're using an Eheim 1250, then you may be rushing water through too fast. if you can, try to restrict the waterflow (get creative, like pinch a hose). You may have an air leak, but more importantly, you may have a lot of air in your system. Is your rad at the bottom or top of your case? Do you have an air trap, or just a fill tube? If you're worried about the coolant, then try straight water (just as a test). If you're using a shim, then it may be too thick. (shims are NOT girly) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 05-19-2002 at 05:10 PM.

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