Filter, Teflon Tape, T-line,???

Gulp35 · 10-21-2004, 04:19 PM

I have three questions....

1) I have the LR Cascade which could possibly block up, I have PMed Cathar about what type of filter I could use and he recommended a typical aquarium pump filter (specifically the enhiem). I have a Danner Pump filter but no way to put it in the water flow. However I was thinking that I could cut off a piece and put it in the output tank or tube of my Heater core (the water goes next to the Cascade)

2)I've heard arguments for and against teflon tape. But with a filter, most of th fears of threads of teflon getting in bad places is gone. Is it really a something I want to use. (I'd like to be able to take the fittings off)

3) All of my watercooling equipment is going to be below my computer in a external box. I am also going to use a t-line to fill and bleed and was wondering where the optimal placement of the tee would be.

Thanks,
I should be done with my W/Cing by the end of next week at the most!!!

killernoodle · 10-21-2004, 04:45 PM

Goop it and the fittings will come off. Every time I have used teflon tape, I always find pieces of it in my radiator when I wash it out.

Gulp35 · 10-21-2004, 06:16 PM

I would do that by just putting a bead of goop around the threads, Right?

Brians256 · 10-21-2004, 06:23 PM

What I do is put enough goop on the threads so that the valleys are filled, but no more. This gives me enough to give a good seal in the threads and a nice bead of goop at the top. Also, it reduces the amount of "overflow" of goop that gets squeezed out at the top so that I don't have a huge mound of goop at the top of the fitting's entry point.

Bigmack · 10-21-2004, 07:35 PM

If you gotta have teflon,, use liquid teflon pipe sealer and apply it like Brians256 reccommended.

Gulp35 · 10-22-2004, 12:59 PM

What about questions 1 and 3

Brians256 · 10-22-2004, 03:11 PM

Question 1 (filter for loop): I have no way to answer this well. I use distilled water and antifreeze which shouldn't precipitate (as long as I flush and refill every year or two) as far as I know.

Question 3 (position for fill+bleed T): I prefer using a reservoir, actually. The reason is that filling and bleeding the system is easier. It does take up more space, though.

Take the fill scenario, for example. To fill the system, you need to exchange air for water. If you are filling through a tube into a loop, the air has to come up through the same tube you are using to add water. You get bubbles, you have to wait for the bubbles of air to move up and allow the water to go down.

Now, if you have a wide-mouth reservoir, you can let air come up as you stream the water in. If you insist on using tubing to fill things up, you can make it easier to fill by using two tees. Open both up and pour water into only one of them. The air comes through the other while you are adding coolant to the loop.

The best scenario I can think of uses two tees: one at the bottom and one at the top. To fill, use a long tube that hooks to the bottom of the loop to fill. It should be long enough that its top end can be held higher than the highest point of the loop. This will enable you to have water in the fill tube higher than any point in the loop. Now, the length of this tube is a pain, right? So hook it up to the bottom T with a valve. When you are done filling the system, shut the valve off, drain the tube OUTSIDE of the electronics and disconnect the fill tube. The other T should be at the top of the loop and can exhaust the air in the system when you are filling, but (more importantly), it can be opened to allow air into the TOP for easy emptying of the loop.

Anyways, I think it is still simpler and better performing to make a system with a reservoir that acts as an air trap. Wide mouth for easy filling, high pocket to trap air bubbles, and you can turn the system upside down and drain out of it too. Just remember to design the system with the reservoir at the top.

Gulp35 · 10-22-2004, 03:37 PM

I only have room for a tee, one tee. Should I have it before the pump, after the pump, top or bottom of loop, If the tee is at the bottom of the loop will it spurt water?

Thanks for all your input as of now

2Busy · 10-22-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmack

If you gotta have teflon,, use liquid teflon pipe sealer and apply it like Brians256 reccommended.

I agree. I have had much better luck with the teflon liquid goo for sealing. It washes off pretty easily when you need to remove it. I have had a fear of the shreaded tape getting plugged up somewhere in my system.

Gulp35 · 10-22-2004, 06:18 PM

Just a Q that poped into my head, how does the tape get into the system If you are placing it on the threads? If It was getting in the system couldn't you just put the tape further up the threads?

Brians256 · 10-23-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulp35

I only have room for a tee, one tee. Should I have it before the pump, after the pump, top or bottom of loop, If the tee is at the bottom of the loop will it spurt water?

Thanks for all your input as of now

Before the pump, I guess. As I've said, I don't use T's. They reduce flow and are harder to use than reservoirs. It might spurt water if it is open and pointing down or if it is too short. Try it out!

Brians256 · 10-23-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulp35

Just a Q that poped into my head, how does the tape get into the system If you are placing it on the threads? If It was getting in the system couldn't you just put the tape further up the threads?

It gets cut by the threads as you turn the fitting into the female threads. If you put it further up, it doesn't do its PRIMARY job, which is lubricating the threads, not sealing them. To seal, the threads are tapered in diameter, so that they are deformed into each other. That is why pipe threads are tapered: to cause a tighter fit as you turn further into the fitting.

Gulp35 · 10-24-2004, 06:03 PM

Ahhhhh!!!!

I am just about finished completely setting up my watercooling only to find that my hose clamps (worm gear type) do not stay circular but become eliptical as I tighten them!!! I've been doing so searches (on the internet mind you) for some spring hose clamps but I can't find any stores around me that carry them.

Does anyone know of a place that I could find some?

killernoodle · 10-24-2004, 07:05 PM

mcmaster.com probably has them, if not, try usplastics.com

Brians256 · 10-24-2004, 11:20 PM

I've used the hose clamps that DangerDen sells (I'm sure they get them from some place like Grainger or even from the mfg) and they seem to work well enough. However, if they are becoming elliptical, I suspect you are using the wrong size hose clamp (sounds like yours are too large). I either didn't notice it when I used them, or I used a smaller clamp.

Anyone else chime in on this one?

Gulp35 · 10-26-2004, 07:44 AM

I was being crazy at that moment, they became eliptical when I tightened them out in the open but when I put them on a barb with tubing they end up being circular and clamping onto the hose.

I still need help with the T-line, I know I have been told not to use it, but it is what I have room for. if I put it in front of the pump I can choke the inlet, But if I put it after the pump it may not be able to bleed the system fully.

I am leaning toward putting it infront of the pump but a few inches up fromthe inlet (even though I don't think that that would really help that much just because that is what I have room for).

Brians256 · 10-26-2004, 01:53 PM

No help here for ya, buddy. Try using a T that butts up against a splice that goes from 1/2" or 3/8" ID (whatever you are using) to 5/8" ID tubing that connects to the input of the pump. I think that pH has done that.

Gulp35 · 10-26-2004, 02:51 PM

I just got an idea....using yours but I have no 5/8" tubing

Since you get more pressure drop when the fluid has to expand or conract, if i make the T come almost directly off the pump then even though I will be restricting the flow it won't have to be contracted then expand then contract again.

I think that is what you were saying... please correct me if I am wrong

Gulp35 · 10-26-2004, 06:01 PM

Here are some pics of my W/c-ing as of yet.....

General idea of tubing Layput (NOT FINAL)

First possible position for the T-Line...

Second...

The mounting mechanism for the whole thing...

Some pics of My Cascade (Thanks Cathar!!!)

The whole thing from the other side

Pic of the dual shroud that I made

Pic of my dad's airplane in construction (I helped a little)... Its a Cozy (cozy on website is not mine)

Gulp35 · 10-30-2004, 05:59 PM

I got a bigger all copper tee and put that in between the top of my box and the pump inlet...

however

I got it all together for a little while (till something came allong that at the moment I am keepin confidential) but there seemed to always have bubbles, each time I ran the pump to move them out they just got chopped up into smaller bubbles. Is this because I didn't run it for very long or something else?

bigben2k · 10-30-2004, 06:07 PM

Yep, give it some time: your airtrat (or T-line) should eventually catch all the air. If it doesn't, let us know: we'll trouble shoot it for ya

CoolROD · 10-31-2004, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulp35

I only have room for a tee, one tee. Should I have it before the pump, after the pump, top or bottom of loop, If the tee is at the bottom of the loop will it spurt water?

Thanks for all your input as of now

It makes no difference where you put your tee with regards to flow. Put it where it simplifies the plumbing. Some people seem to like it at the pump inlet because it may be easier to fill and prime.

bobkoure · 10-31-2004, 09:32 AM

Maybe make your own 'T' out of a few of these

screwed into one of these

(they come as small as 2 oz).
If you drill the hole for the third barb into the cap you can treat it just like a 'T', but it should do a better job of removing bubbles as the fluid gets to slow down.
Just a thought, of course...

10-21-2004, 04:19 PM	#1
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	Filter, Teflon Tape, T-line,??? I have three questions.... 1) I have the LR Cascade which could possibly block up, I have PMed Cathar about what type of filter I could use and he recommended a typical aquarium pump filter (specifically the enhiem). I have a Danner Pump filter but no way to put it in the water flow. However I was thinking that I could cut off a piece and put it in the output tank or tube of my Heater core (the water goes next to the Cascade) 2)I've heard arguments for and against teflon tape. But with a filter, most of th fears of threads of teflon getting in bad places is gone. Is it really a something I want to use. (I'd like to be able to take the fittings off) 3) All of my watercooling equipment is going to be below my computer in a external box. I am also going to use a t-line to fill and bleed and was wondering where the optimal placement of the tee would be. Thanks, I should be done with my W/Cing by the end of next week at the most!!! __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-21-2004, 04:45 PM	#2
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	Goop it and the fittings will come off. Every time I have used teflon tape, I always find pieces of it in my radiator when I wash it out. __________________ I have a nice computer.

10-21-2004, 06:16 PM	#3
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	I would do that by just putting a bead of goop around the threads, Right? __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-22-2004, 12:59 PM	#6
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	What about questions 1 and 3 __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-22-2004, 03:37 PM	#8
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	I only have room for a tee, one tee. Should I have it before the pump, after the pump, top or bottom of loop, If the tee is at the bottom of the loop will it spurt water? Thanks for all your input as of now __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-21-2004, 06:23 PM	#4
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	What I do is put enough goop on the threads so that the valleys are filled, but no more. This gives me enough to give a good seal in the threads and a nice bead of goop at the top. Also, it reduces the amount of "overflow" of goop that gets squeezed out at the top so that I don't have a huge mound of goop at the top of the fitting's entry point.

10-21-2004, 07:35 PM	#5
Bigmack Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Miami Posts: 60	If you gotta have teflon,, use liquid teflon pipe sealer and apply it like Brians256 reccommended.

10-22-2004, 03:11 PM	#7
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Question 1 (filter for loop): I have no way to answer this well. I use distilled water and antifreeze which shouldn't precipitate (as long as I flush and refill every year or two) as far as I know. Question 3 (position for fill+bleed T): I prefer using a reservoir, actually. The reason is that filling and bleeding the system is easier. It does take up more space, though. Take the fill scenario, for example. To fill the system, you need to exchange air for water. If you are filling through a tube into a loop, the air has to come up through the same tube you are using to add water. You get bubbles, you have to wait for the bubbles of air to move up and allow the water to go down. Now, if you have a wide-mouth reservoir, you can let air come up as you stream the water in. If you insist on using tubing to fill things up, you can make it easier to fill by using two tees. Open both up and pour water into only one of them. The air comes through the other while you are adding coolant to the loop. The best scenario I can think of uses two tees: one at the bottom and one at the top. To fill, use a long tube that hooks to the bottom of the loop to fill. It should be long enough that its top end can be held higher than the highest point of the loop. This will enable you to have water in the fill tube higher than any point in the loop. Now, the length of this tube is a pain, right? So hook it up to the bottom T with a valve. When you are done filling the system, shut the valve off, drain the tube OUTSIDE of the electronics and disconnect the fill tube. The other T should be at the top of the loop and can exhaust the air in the system when you are filling, but (more importantly), it can be opened to allow air into the TOP for easy emptying of the loop. Anyways, I think it is still simpler and better performing to make a system with a reservoir that acts as an air trap. Wide mouth for easy filling, high pocket to trap air bubbles, and you can turn the system upside down and drain out of it too. Just remember to design the system with the reservoir at the top.

10-22-2004, 06:18 PM	#10
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	Just a Q that poped into my head, how does the tape get into the system If you are placing it on the threads? If It was getting in the system couldn't you just put the tape further up the threads? __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-24-2004, 06:03 PM	#13
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	Ahhhhh!!!! I am just about finished completely setting up my watercooling only to find that my hose clamps (worm gear type) do not stay circular but become eliptical as I tighten them!!! I've been doing so searches (on the internet mind you) for some spring hose clamps but I can't find any stores around me that carry them. Does anyone know of a place that I could find some? __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-24-2004, 07:05 PM	#14
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	mcmaster.com probably has them, if not, try usplastics.com __________________ I have a nice computer.

10-24-2004, 11:20 PM	#15
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	I've used the hose clamps that DangerDen sells (I'm sure they get them from some place like Grainger or even from the mfg) and they seem to work well enough. However, if they are becoming elliptical, I suspect you are using the wrong size hose clamp (sounds like yours are too large). I either didn't notice it when I used them, or I used a smaller clamp. Anyone else chime in on this one?

10-26-2004, 07:44 AM	#16
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	I was being crazy at that moment, they became eliptical when I tightened them out in the open but when I put them on a barb with tubing they end up being circular and clamping onto the hose. I still need help with the T-line, I know I have been told not to use it, but it is what I have room for. if I put it in front of the pump I can choke the inlet, But if I put it after the pump it may not be able to bleed the system fully. I am leaning toward putting it infront of the pump but a few inches up fromthe inlet (even though I don't think that that would really help that much just because that is what I have room for). __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-26-2004, 01:53 PM	#17
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	No help here for ya, buddy. Try using a T that butts up against a splice that goes from 1/2" or 3/8" ID (whatever you are using) to 5/8" ID tubing that connects to the input of the pump. I think that pH has done that.

10-26-2004, 02:51 PM	#18
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	I just got an idea....using yours but I have no 5/8" tubing Since you get more pressure drop when the fluid has to expand or conract, if i make the T come almost directly off the pump then even though I will be restricting the flow it won't have to be contracted then expand then contract again. I think that is what you were saying... please correct me if I am wrong __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-26-2004, 06:01 PM	#19
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	Here are some pics of my W/c-ing as of yet..... General idea of tubing Layput (NOT FINAL) First possible position for the T-Line... Second... The mounting mechanism for the whole thing... Some pics of My Cascade (Thanks Cathar!!!) The whole thing from the other side Pic of the dual shroud that I made Pic of my dad's airplane in construction (I helped a little)... Its a Cozy (cozy on website is not mine) __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-30-2004, 05:59 PM	#20
Gulp35 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 135	I got a bigger all copper tee and put that in between the top of my box and the pump inlet... however I got it all together for a little while (till something came allong that at the moment I am keepin confidential) but there seemed to always have bubbles, each time I ran the pump to move them out they just got chopped up into smaller bubbles. Is this because I didn't run it for very long or something else? __________________ Epox 8RDA+ v1.1----------Tyan K8SDPro 1700+ JUIHB 0310XPMW (12.5x200Mhz@1.792v)--------2xOpteron246 (2Ghz 1MB L2) 2x256MB Kingston PC3000 (BH5?) 2-2-2-8 2.7v---2x512MB Corsair Reg.&ECC PC3200 ATi Radeon 9800Pro (stock, too hot)-----ATI RageXL WD800JB+WD2500JB-------WD1600JD Sony DVD/CDRW-------NEC 3520A Black Forton350W--------Antec TruePower2.0 550W EPS12v

10-30-2004, 06:07 PM	#21
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yep, give it some time: your airtrat (or T-line) should eventually catch all the air. If it doesn't, let us know: we'll trouble shoot it for ya __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-31-2004, 09:32 AM	#23
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	Maybe make your own 'T' out of a few of these screwed into one of these (they come as small as 2 oz). If you drill the hole for the third barb into the cap you can treat it just like a 'T', but it should do a better job of removing bubbles as the fluid gets to slow down. Just a thought, of course...

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