Attention : Snap Posters Please Read Asap - Legal Notice!!! (11/08/04)

Joe · 11-09-2004, 12:37 AM

Folks.

I today recieved this letter from Adaptec:

Quote:

By email and courier/overnight delivery

Joe Kelly
ProCooling.com
2899 XXXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, WI XXXXXXXX

Dear Joe:

Please be advised that I am corporate counsel for Adaptec, Inc.

It has come to our attention that one of ProCooling.com’s members, “rami” (member ID No. 7274) is currently distributing unauthorized copies of Adaptec's copyrighted software, SnapOS 4.0, by posting a link to the ftp download directly from your message board/forum. This conduct constitutes copyright infringement which may result in significant penalties and attorney's fees under the U.S. Copyright Act.

Request is hereby made that you immediately remove any and all of rami’s messages containing the link or the links which are directed to this ftp site. Please confirm actions taken in this regard no later than noon PST Tuesday, November 9, 2004. If the links are not removed as requested, we shall proceed accordingly based on your failure to take reasonable remedial action upon actual notice and knowledge of the infringement.

Please do not hesitate to call or write with any comments or questions. Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.

Very truly yours,
Judith A. Player
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++////
Judith A. Player
Attorney
Adaptec, Inc.
691 South Milpitas Boulevard, M/S 120
Milpitas, CA 95035
Tel. No. 408 957 7804
Cell No. 510 673 1280
Fax No. 408 957 7137
Cell No. 510 673 1280
Email: judy_player@adaptec.com
Alternative email: judy@jplayerlaw.com

So some steps will need to be taken. I am against internet censorship and am also against it being MY responsibility to moderate all these threads.

Please post a reply on ideas or comments.

Joe · 11-09-2004, 01:01 AM

I edited Rami's posts in question to remove specific details about the file shares in question. If anyone has questions about them I would reccomend emailing him directly.

Etacovda · 11-09-2004, 03:14 AM

"Judith A. Player" - "joojust a player"

I'm sorry, but what a name for an attorney

makes you wonder how legit the email was

9mmCensor · 11-09-2004, 09:11 AM

To Adaptec and others:

You think you can stop filesharing?

killernoodle · 11-09-2004, 09:30 AM

This is a very localized situation: how many people on the forums have snap! servers? 4-5 maybe?

I dont get it...

BillA · 11-09-2004, 09:50 AM

what does "localized" have to do with anything ?
think copyright protection

killernoodle · 11-09-2004, 09:56 AM

True, but there are bigger fish to fry....

Joe · 11-09-2004, 09:56 AM

on the other hand why is it my issue that a link is posted? Last I checked hyperlinks werent copywrited, and their destination is not my responsibility.

If the file isnt hosted here its not my problem. thats how I see it. They are grasping at straws here. I am guessing they tried his host and couldnt get through there.

jaydee · 11-09-2004, 10:26 AM

Looks like a scare tactic to me. The worst they could do is subpoena you to hand over Rami's IP addy so they could go after him directly (if they got the FTP addy they don't even need to do that). Your forum is just the way to the crime, not the crime itself. Nothing they could do IMO.

pHaestus · 11-09-2004, 11:10 AM

I think you need to reread the DMCA. According to that beautiful act of US congress I believe you CAN be found liable if you refuse to pull links to information such as this.

They went after the people who sold t shirts with the deCSS code on them didn't they?

As for legal defense on internet matters, I suggest www.somethinglawful.com

After all, Internet is serious business

#Rotor · 11-09-2004, 12:16 PM

I say.. BRING IT ON.... "Biatch" oh and a deadline to meet....For crying in a bucket, What if Joe is busy with important stuff.... like LAN parties!!!!

I'm with Joe on who's responsibility it is, or more to the point, "IS NOT"... Can hardly imagine anything with teeth to fly from the allies of justice as a result of someone posting a link to a file on some far far away Bangladeshi server...., I mean how easy do they think they can have life...

Not to miss the copyright infringing act being committed, as a copyright holder of a number of Commercial applications myself, I do very well understand and sympathize with the problem. Just that I kinda sorta absolutely despise lawyers and the way they do things....

Davesworld · 11-10-2004, 01:28 AM

How much of their licensing violates BSD licensing? There is no reason whatsoever for an enthusiast to pay 160 or so dollars for support they don't need in order to pay for a slightly updated version that touts improvements based on upgraded Samba code in BSD! Guardian OS is based on Linux but they advertise that. We need to send them a pack of wolves in response to the dogs they sicked on us!

rami · 11-12-2004, 04:58 PM

i got my letter today, the 12th says that files have to be removed from "snap.ismybitch.com" by the 10th, the files have been removed since the first letter was sent to Joe.

the odd thing is my letter was from another lawyer/lawfirm all together

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

Folks.

I today recieved this letter from Adaptec:

So some steps will need to be taken. I am against internet censorship and am also against it being MY responsibility to moderate all these threads.

Please post a reply on ideas or comments.

bigben2k · 11-12-2004, 05:59 PM

Hum... would it be cool to post instructions to get to the file? I mean, without an actual link...

I wonder.

BillA · 11-12-2004, 06:01 PM

you are an ass Ben
would it be cool to encourage copyright violations ?

shit Ben, thiMk

pHaestus · 11-12-2004, 06:20 PM

serious business indeed

jaydee · 11-13-2004, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

I think you need to reread the DMCA. According to that beautiful act of US congress I believe you CAN be found liable if you refuse to pull links to information such as this.

They went after the people who sold t shirts with the deCSS code on them didn't they?

As for legal defense on internet matters, I suggest www.somethinglawful.com

After all, Internet is serious business

I don't know. I think you could easily smack them around in court. Joe isn't committing the crime, the people that click the link, download the software, and then use the software are committing the crime. Joe isn't posting code to software he just allowing the pointing of direction to were the T-Shirts can be had. How the hell is that a crime? Is it a crime to point someone to Kassa or any other P2P network that has millions of copyrighted items downloaded a day?

I tell you what if Joe would have been found guilty then our justice system is pretty ****ed up. With the this DMCA logic anyone that gives means to a item that causes a crime is guilty of a crime. That's not a good thing.

I am with unregistered though on the copyright issue.

redleader · 11-13-2004, 01:44 AM

Its not a matter of whos right, its a matter of who has the most money to fight it out in court.

Joe · 11-14-2004, 11:50 PM

http://server.risinghost.com/suspended.page/

hehe thats the page you get if you go to snap.ismybitch.com now hehe.

0wned

rami · 11-15-2004, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

http://server.risinghost.com/suspended.page/

hehe thats the page you get if you go to snap.ismybitch.com now hehe.

0wned

yea i setup a new mailserver temp for tonight and will have my domain running on my own server (at my own colo rack) i was hosting on a friend's server before this. atleast i didnt loose any mail i guess

JSimmons · 11-15-2004, 08:41 AM

Adaptec is gonna win this if for no other reason than they have many precedent court decisions to back them up.

ProCooling could be taken down because of this if Joe doesn't take some action, so all the chesting pounding that's been happening in this thread is just hurting the site.

IMHO, nobody should be distributing copyrighted software in any form unless they have permission to do so from the copyright holder. In this case, rami evidently doesn't have such permission. If he wishes to persist in this endeavor, he should do so privately through email or IM. However, it would be wise for rami to just desist as requested because Adaptec will try to entrap him at some point if they think he's still sharing their software.

I know it's not a pretty picture, and it's a damn bitter pill to swallow, but the simple fact is that it's the best course of action.

There are better (legal) ways to get even with Adaptec if you feel the need.

jaydee · 11-16-2004, 08:05 PM

Only one doing chest pounding is Adaptech.

Joe · 11-16-2004, 11:21 PM

There was chest pounding?

pHaestus · 11-17-2004, 01:10 AM

I know I was for sure

JSimmons · 11-17-2004, 08:18 AM

If Adaptec invents a law suit and invokes the DMCA, ProCooling could be in for rough times. If I were Joe and I was running a site that truly important (like ProCooling is), I would be quick to put the matter to rest before I got caught up in corporate legal crap. Besides all that...

All a Snap server does is serve up drive space, right? If it were me, and Adaptec starting making noises like this, I would do my best to discourage people from buying SNAP servers, and come up with and publicly document a way to build your own Linux-based Snap-alike server without all the arbitrary OS-induced limitations designed to force you to upgrade from Adaptec. On top of that, you'd get RAID support and be able to install as much memory and hard drive space as you could possibly need/want/afford, and for a lot less money than buying a Snap server. And with the case-building talent I've seen here, it's not a big stretch to assume that all this stuff could be placed into a relatively small box (or at least a well-lighted one).

Forest / trees, guys - that's all I'm saying.

11-09-2004, 01:01 AM	#2
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I edited Rami's posts in question to remove specific details about the file shares in question. If anyone has questions about them I would reccomend emailing him directly. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

11-09-2004, 03:14 AM	#3
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	"Judith A. Player" - "joojust a player" I'm sorry, but what a name for an attorney makes you wonder how legit the email was __________________ Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights. Last edited by Etacovda; 11-09-2004 at 03:20 AM.

11-09-2004, 09:30 AM	#5
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	This is a very localized situation: how many people on the forums have snap! servers? 4-5 maybe? I dont get it... __________________ I have a nice computer.

11-09-2004, 09:56 AM	#7
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	True, but there are bigger fish to fry.... __________________ I have a nice computer.

11-09-2004, 09:56 AM	#8
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	on the other hand why is it my issue that a link is posted? Last I checked hyperlinks werent copywrited, and their destination is not my responsibility. If the file isnt hosted here its not my problem. thats how I see it. They are grasping at straws here. I am guessing they tried his host and couldnt get through there. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

11-09-2004, 09:11 AM	#4
9mmCensor Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 219	To Adaptec and others: You think you can stop filesharing?

11-09-2004, 09:50 AM	#6
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	what does "localized" have to do with anything ? think copyright protection

11-09-2004, 10:26 AM	#9
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Looks like a scare tactic to me. The worst they could do is subpoena you to hand over Rami's IP addy so they could go after him directly (if they got the FTP addy they don't even need to do that). Your forum is just the way to the crime, not the crime itself. Nothing they could do IMO.

11-09-2004, 11:10 AM	#10
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I think you need to reread the DMCA. According to that beautiful act of US congress I believe you CAN be found liable if you refuse to pull links to information such as this. They went after the people who sold t shirts with the deCSS code on them didn't they? As for legal defense on internet matters, I suggest www.somethinglawful.com After all, Internet is serious business

11-09-2004, 12:16 PM	#11
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I say.. BRING IT ON.... "Biatch" oh and a deadline to meet....For crying in a bucket, What if Joe is busy with important stuff.... like LAN parties!!!! I'm with Joe on who's responsibility it is, or more to the point, "IS NOT"... Can hardly imagine anything with teeth to fly from the allies of justice as a result of someone posting a link to a file on some far far away Bangladeshi server...., I mean how easy do they think they can have life... Not to miss the copyright infringing act being committed, as a copyright holder of a number of Commercial applications myself, I do very well understand and sympathize with the problem. Just that I kinda sorta absolutely despise lawyers and the way they do things.... __________________ There is no Spoon.... Last edited by #Rotor; 11-10-2004 at 02:37 AM.

11-10-2004, 01:28 AM	#12
Davesworld Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle, Wa Posts: 45	Snap OS is BSD sooo.... How much of their licensing violates BSD licensing? There is no reason whatsoever for an enthusiast to pay 160 or so dollars for support they don't need in order to pay for a slightly updated version that touts improvements based on upgraded Samba code in BSD! Guardian OS is based on Linux but they advertise that. We need to send them a pack of wolves in response to the dogs they sicked on us!

11-12-2004, 05:59 PM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hum... would it be cool to post instructions to get to the file? I mean, without an actual link... I wonder. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-12-2004, 06:01 PM	#15
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	you are an ass Ben would it be cool to encourage copyright violations ? shit Ben, thiMk

11-12-2004, 06:20 PM	#16
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	serious business indeed

11-13-2004, 01:44 AM	#18
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Its not a matter of whos right, its a matter of who has the most money to fight it out in court.

11-14-2004, 11:50 PM	#19
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	http://server.risinghost.com/suspended.page/ hehe thats the page you get if you go to snap.ismybitch.com now hehe. 0wned __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

11-15-2004, 08:41 AM	#21
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	Adaptec is gonna win this if for no other reason than they have many precedent court decisions to back them up. ProCooling could be taken down because of this if Joe doesn't take some action, so all the chesting pounding that's been happening in this thread is just hurting the site. IMHO, nobody should be distributing copyrighted software in any form unless they have permission to do so from the copyright holder. In this case, rami evidently doesn't have such permission. If he wishes to persist in this endeavor, he should do so privately through email or IM. However, it would be wise for rami to just desist as requested because Adaptec will try to entrap him at some point if they think he's still sharing their software. I know it's not a pretty picture, and it's a damn bitter pill to swallow, but the simple fact is that it's the best course of action. There are better (legal) ways to get even with Adaptec if you feel the need. __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

11-16-2004, 08:05 PM	#22
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Only one doing chest pounding is Adaptech.

11-16-2004, 11:21 PM	#23
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	There was chest pounding? __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

11-17-2004, 01:10 AM	#24
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I know I was for sure

11-17-2004, 08:18 AM	#25
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	If Adaptec invents a law suit and invokes the DMCA, ProCooling could be in for rough times. If I were Joe and I was running a site that truly important (like ProCooling is), I would be quick to put the matter to rest before I got caught up in corporate legal crap. Besides all that... All a Snap server does is serve up drive space, right? If it were me, and Adaptec starting making noises like this, I would do my best to discourage people from buying SNAP servers, and come up with and publicly document a way to build your own Linux-based Snap-alike server without all the arbitrary OS-induced limitations designed to force you to upgrade from Adaptec. On top of that, you'd get RAID support and be able to install as much memory and hard drive space as you could possibly need/want/afford, and for a lot less money than buying a Snap server. And with the case-building talent I've seen here, it's not a big stretch to assume that all this stuff could be placed into a relatively small box (or at least a well-lighted one). Forest / trees, guys - that's all I'm saying. __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

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