pc-v800b liquid cooling/air tight project, pro advice needed please

[dsumanik]

Hi all I need some input/guidance on a new project I have started, I am aiming for compact, looks, and attempted air seal to control dust, as silent as possible with some fairly elaborate liquid cooling.

Basically im trying to make a case that sticks with me for years.

It is going to be a little tricky and i need input from some of the more experienced guys around here.

all components are on order, with exception to the radiator and second 7800GTX.

chassis:
lian-li pc-v800b (I know its small, but Its what i want, no compromises here and ill mod to hell and back if necessary)

PC components:

Abit AN8 fatali1ty SLI
AMD X2 4400+
OCZ PC4000 VX 1024mb
7800 GTX (will go to SLI setup space permitting)
2x MAxtor SATA 300gig raid 1
2x MAXTOR SATA 80 gig raid 0
Enermax Noisetaker 600W ( I may change to modular PSU depending on space)
liteon DVD/CDRW combo drive

What i need help with:

-mounting ideas
-is a 120.2 rad enough to cool this system? (Up to: CPU, chipset, vidcard x 2, HDD x 4)
-would a dual pump/loop be recommended?
-recommended loop sequence

Cooling components ordered so far:


PUMP:mcp 350, may get another one for a second loop depending.
CPU: Koolance CPU-305 V10
VID: Koolance VID-NV2-L06
CHIPSET: MIPS AN8 Freezer ( i know not necessary, but id like to eliminate fan)
HDD: Koolance 2x HD-55-L06 dual HDD coolers to cool all four drives

Extras:

DD fillport
Fan controller
ABIT UGURU panel
Sunbeam PCI-wherever rack to help with install

Plans:

airflow/dust control:

-seal all perforated areas with ultra thin clear plastic & sealing tape
-cut intake in bottom of tray, force airflow from this port through custom filter, possibly reuseable K&N.
-possibly shroud rad on other side in order to force cool air through it

the following pictures are reasonably precises estimates of dimensions size and location (based on measuring percentages, and looking where things line up on my current mobo in its case)

Mounting.v1


Pros:
leaves 2x5/14 bays for extra space, expansion, or cable management/odds and ends.

Cons: "messier" more tubing

Mounting.v2


Pros:
tidier, less tubing, no resevoir

Cons: have to build custom mounting rack for 5 1/4 bays, very tight fit
-fillport will be tricky to mount.

any tips here guys would be highly appreciated!!!

[moonlightcheese]

that's kind of an inefficient setup in the PC components and the WC setup.

PC:
- SLI x16 will be released soon and SLI x8 has no performance benefit over single card. better to wait for SLI x16 boards to hit the market
- Fatal1ty mobo shows benchmarks that do not warrant it's price tag. you're better off with the DFI Lanparty or the new Jetway nF4 boards. better overclocking and better performance
- i'm hoping that Maxtor 300GB SATA drive is the DiamondMax10. it's the only drive in the line that has the 16MB cache as well as NCQ (unless you got an old MaxLineIII)

WC:
- you will need more than one loop.
- you don't need a chipset block, they are very restrictive, get a Zalman silent HSF for the chipset.
- don't get the koolance parts. oops... too late.

suggested setup for maximum performance:

PC:
- wait for SLI x16. point blank. there's no point doing SLI till it's released... never was.

WC:
Loop1
DangerDen/Swiftech D5/MCP655
CPU: Swiftech Storm G4
GPU: 2x DangerDen Maze4 GPU blocks
HDPE Res (read directions carefully before you do ANYTHING or you will get leaks)
Fillport connected to the res if desired
BIX2 or 3 (BlackIceXtreme)

Loop2
DangerDen/Swiftech MCP350/DDC
Chipset (either DangerDen Maze or DangerDen "Z" block)
HDD block ??? i don't think it really matters since WC'ing your HD is pointless
blackicemicro or BIX

that should set you up. and SLI x16 will be well worth the wait. right now SLI shows NO performance benefits over a single card system. i urge you to send that fatal1ty back since it isn't worth the money, overclocks like crap and there are better boards out there. other system components look good. wish you had asked before you purchased -_-

[killernoodle]

Mother of god. Why would he need more than one loop? We arent cooling nuclear reactors!!!

Plumb it up in a single series loop. A BIP II would do a fine job in the cooling department, no need to get the extreme. As would a single mcp350. You will never NEED 2 pumps in a watercooling system unless you were cooling an entire array of computers with a single loop. In a small case like that, a res will only take up space. Get a T line. I do agree with the chipset block though, it would be pointless. You also do not need to watercool hard drives. I have 4 250gb sata drives stacked up in the front of my case and they do great without much airflow. Had them for a while and never had a problem from any of them.

[moonlightcheese]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Mother of god. Why would he need more than one loop? We arent cooling nuclear reactors!!!

Plumb it up in a single series loop. A BIP II would do a fine job in the cooling department, no need to get the extreme. As would a single mcp350. You will never NEED 2 pumps in a watercooling system unless you were cooling an entire array of computers with a single loop. In a small case like that, a res will only take up space. Get a T line. I do agree with the chipset block though, it would be pointless. You also do not need to watercool hard drives. I have 4 250gb sata drives stacked up in the front of my case and they do great without much airflow. Had them for a while and never had a problem from any of them.

CPU, 2 GPUs, and chipset... in one loop? with one rad? water cooling is quite capable but not that capable. that is an awful lot of blocks with high heat dumps in one loop. i set mine up in two separate loops and i've had wonderful performance. with those kind of parts i'm sure he wants all of the performance he can get. putting all of that in one loop is not going to cool enough to get decent/stable OC's.

[dsumanik]

Originally Posted by moonlightcheese

that's kind of an inefficient setup in the PC components and the WC setup.

PC:
- SLI x16 will be released soon and SLI x8 has no performance benefit over single card. better to wait for SLI x16 boards to hit the market
- Fatal1ty mobo shows benchmarks that do not warrant it's price tag. you're better off with the DFI Lanparty or the new Jetway nF4 boards. better overclocking and better performance
- i'm hoping that Maxtor 300GB SATA drive is the DiamondMax10. it's the only drive in the line that has the 16MB cache as well as NCQ (unless you got an old MaxLineIII)

spoken like a true idiot who has never owned a high end SLI rig or used the DFI board, and bought into the marketing and hype for it all.....like I did at first.

I already have 2 sli-dr's, both are defective, have been rma'd two times, one with a blown chipset! In total the DFI boards have ruined 6 sticks sticks of memory now...tccd and VX.... and for your info...i have a higher overclock, better stability, and performance overall with the fatality. Go over to dfi street and read the THOUSANDS of thread on the problems with this board...and ZERO response from DFI.

Period.

how do i know?

from using both, not reading reviews. Obviously the amount of money i have spent on this rig here, means i did at least a little homework...dont you think?

-there are huge benefits to SLI, maybe not at 1024x768 where you game at on your pissy 15 inch monitor...but some people like me are running high rez editing displays...which only look good in high resolution, and even better with AA!

-im running 2 x dell 2405fpw right now, and will be getting an apple 30 inch soon, at anything less than 1920x1200 this display looks like ass. The cinema display will require even more horsepower.

-SLI 16 isnt gonna do much, its like going from agp 4x to 8x in my eyes.
-my maxtor's are diamondmax 10 yes. The 80 gigs are leftovers from another system.

Sheesh i thought this was the pro forum?

Id also like to add that this is about building a case that sticks with me for years, through upgrades which obviously will mean replacing blocks....and your precious sli 16 motherboards?

this isnt about which components i purchased.....and as for asking...I already did a few weeks ago on here before i ordered...no body helped me out.

WC:
- you will need more than one loop.
- you don't need a chipset block, they are very restrictive, get a Zalman silent HSF for the chipset.
- don't get the koolance parts. oops... too late.

suggested setup for maximum performance:

PC:
- wait for SLI x16. point blank. there's no point doing SLI till it's released... never was.

WC:
Loop1
DangerDen/Swiftech D5/MCP655
CPU: Swiftech Storm G4
GPU: 2x DangerDen Maze4 GPU blocks
HDPE Res (read directions carefully before you do ANYTHING or you will get leaks)
Fillport connected to the res if desired
BIX2 or 3 (BlackIceXtreme)

Loop2
DangerDen/Swiftech MCP350/DDC
Chipset (either DangerDen Maze or DangerDen "Z" block)
HDD block ??? i don't think it really matters since WC'ing your HD is pointless
blackicemicro or BIX

that should set you up. and SLI x16 will be well worth the wait. right now SLI shows NO performance benefits over a single card system. i urge you to send that fatal1ty back since it isn't worth the money, overclocks like crap and there are better boards out there. other system components look good. wish you had asked before you purchased -_-

-Your components all require half 1/2" ID tubing which wont make the bends in this case very easy and the mcp 655 is to big to fit in this case...especially with two loops....I already went down that road friend.

-watercooling your HDD is not pointless in a tiny compact case that benefits from removing heatsources from wherever possible...and when they will have to be stacked 4 on top of each other, with little to no space in between them, with no air flow over them...i have had to replace many HDD because of this scenario....want to know why i have to 80 gigs left over from previous rig? Cuz they are spaced properly in my current system...and have a fan on em.

The ones that werent died....and maxtor which is such a crap company in your eyes was nice enough to send me to brand new 300 gigs on RMA!!

if you dont like my setup, go work on your own...im looking for help with what i have to work with here!

[dsumanik]

man, i thought this was a pro forum...i think there are some skilled guys on here but alot of hardcore nerds who like to argue about nothing at all.

I see why this place has a bad rep now...

Every post you put up gets ripped to shreds, and there's arguments in almost every thread. Im outta here, and bye bye guys.

ill take my shit rig, with shit components, and go wallow in misery and shame somewhere else.

[moonlightcheese]

i never meant to offend. i'm just telling you what i know.

- i never said maxtor was a crap company. i own the DiamondMax10 300GB same as you. and i love it.
- there are plenty of benchmarks to back me up. i'm sorry you had a bad experience with the DFI but there are plenty of other users who have bought the board and had extreme success in overclocking and longevity. sorry for the offensive tone
- there are also plenty of benchmarks that show that SLI isn't worth the extra cash. i'm not saying it doesn't provide performance increase, i'm saying it doesn't provide significant performance increase. PCI Express and AGP are entirely different. did not have near the bandwidth of PCIe. having 16 serial connections to a device and having one 64bit connection to a device are very different. SLI x16 should be an enourmous increase in performance.

- you can do 1/2" ID tubing. i have a Coolermaster T01 Cavalier, which is roughly the same size as your case. everything fits in my case nice and tightly. my setup:

Loop1:
BIMicro on the intake fan
Chipset Block (DangerDen "Z")
MCP350 pump
T-line with mounted fillport in the top
Panaflo80mm high speed

Loop2:
2-302 heatercore
Swiftech Storm G4
dual panaflo M1As
MCP655 pump
HDPE bay-res

it fits. all 1/2" ID tubing. it's tight, but it fits. pics are coming soon.

as for water cooling the HDDs, a fan is a much more inexpensive and feesible option and works equally as well as the HDD blocks.

again... sorry if i seemed offensive. you asked for advice and i was giving mine. i never meant to sound like a jacka$$...

[phextwin]

Originally Posted by moonlightcheese

CPU, 2 GPUs, and chipset... in one loop? with one rad? water cooling is quite capable but not that capable.

Yes it is.

that is an awful lot of blocks with high heat dumps in one loop.

High heat dump? Where do you get this from?

6800U uses ~73W for the whole card. 7800gtx uses less power IIRC. This includes the ram chips and the regulator inefficiencies, i would be suprised if gpus put out over 50W. Considering the size of the heatsinks that come with them and the piddly little fans that run on them, they probably run much less. Keeping in mind that a BIX-II can handle a pair of Xeons at 3.7Ghz, i think a BIX-III should be able to handle it

i set mine up in two separate loops and i've had wonderful performance. with those kind of parts i'm sure he wants all of the performance he can get. putting all of that in one loop is not going to cool enough to get decent/stable OC's.

I dont get this whole 2 loops mentality. Would it not be better to have 2 rads in a loop and 2 pumps instead of 2 discrete loops?

Not having a go at you, but i honestly don't understand the whole "omfg 2 loops roxxor teh big1!" thing that is going around.

[Etacovda]

or just one big rad, and concentrate on having blocks with lower flow resistance...

Theres nothing magic about watercooling, keep the flow rates up and keep the radiator/heat dump ratio right and you'll be fine...

[moonlightcheese]

Originally Posted by phextwin

High heat dump? Where do you get this from?

6800U uses ~73W for the whole card. 7800gtx uses less power IIRC. This includes the ram chips and the regulator inefficiencies, i would be suprised if gpus put out over 50W. Considering the size of the heatsinks that come with them and the piddly little fans that run on them, they probably run much less. Keeping in mind that a BIX-II can handle a pair of Xeons at 3.7Ghz, i think a BIX-III should be able to handle it

those are very low restriction blocks in the Xeon system (RBX). the koolance parts are more restrictive and the chipset block is ungodly restriction. it's going to kill the flow rates and hurt his performance overall.

Originally Posted by phextwin

I dont get this whole 2 loops mentality. Would it not be better to have 2 rads in a loop and 2 pumps instead of 2 discrete loops?

Not having a go at you, but i honestly don't understand the whole "omfg 2 loops roxxor teh big1!" thing that is going around.

it's mostly dependent on the type of blocks you get. let's say i want 2GPUs (Maze4), a Storm G4, and a Maze4 chipset block. the G4 is an impingement block, so anything that restricts flow will significantly hurt performance. so putting the CPU in one loop with, say, a BIX1 and the other blocks in another loop, with a BIX2, then the impingement block isn't restricted. there's no point using one loop if you have all those parts and can easily create 2 loops. then you have heat dump from only one pump and much less restriction in each loop.