Water Additives..need some suggestions.

[Dr_Strangelove]

Ok my last W/C set-up used a mixture of HydrX and Distilled Water. Results seemed ok but I was wondering if there are any other suggestions.

My set up is:

Storm
DD SLI GPU Blocks
Thermochill120.3
D5 Pump
Tygon Tubing 1/2"


When I took my system apart to prepare for this new build, I noticed quite a bit of junk in the lines and I do not know if it was from the HydrX or what.

What is everyone else using out there?

[nikhsub1]

I use a bit of green Zerex AF, maybe 5% and about 3% of Hy-Per Lube which is a performance additive like water wetter but it doesnt stink, it is green and it doesnt coat the components with white film.

[TerraMex]

distilled water + 15% anti-everything (car radiador fluid).
but pratically everything copper or brass, including mesh filter (you really should have one).
the res are aluminum but clear coated and plexi (and so far, so good).

[BillA]

"doesnt coat the components with white film."
??
so I would presume no film with just 5% Zerex AF ? no, could be the Hy-Per Lube too
Scott, any idea which way be inhibiting the film deposition ?

using 'fresh' distilled water, I get the white film on the ID and OD of vinyl tubing (dumping into the 2 gal res); at the same time not noticeable on the ID of silicone or copper tubing - but I'm sure the same film is there too

EDIT
I'm installing a 15W UV sterilizer, will it affect the white film formation ?
should start a pool

[TerraMex]

straight distilled water does the same on some of my tubing,
but very very lightly, clouding of the tubing (but it was old tube),
and seems the filter is working as the blocks remain clean free (poly topped WW, not cracked -> yay!).

Originally Posted by BillA

I'm installing a 15W UV sterilizer, will it affect the white film formation?

you're assuming the film is biological?
drop a silver dollar on your res .

Edit : had straight distll for about 5 months. No heavy film deposits.

[Dr_Strangelove]

Yeah that "white film" is what I was talking about. After only about 6 months it was so bad that I could not even see through the lines. I of course would use HydrX again, but there has to be something better out there.

Mostly I am also looking to have a blue UV reactive solution once I am done instead of the Green look of HydrX.

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by BillA

...I'm installing a 15W UV sterilizer, will it affect the white film formation ? should start a pool

I bet on NO.
easy money.

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by BillA

"doesnt coat the components with white film."
??
so I would presume no film with just 5% Zerex AF ? no, could be the Hy-Per Lube too
Scott, any idea which way be inhibiting the film deposition ?

using 'fresh' distilled water, I get the white film on the ID and OD of vinyl tubing (dumping into the 2 gal res); at the same time not noticeable on the ID of silicone or copper tubing - but I'm sure the same film is there too

EDIT
I'm installing a 15W UV sterilizer, will it affect the white film formation ?
should start a pool

If you use Tygon, you won't get the white film like you do with vinyl or clearflex. With Water Wetter, even with Tygon, I got a bad white haze (turned brown after a while) but no longer without the WW. Didn't you have a bad run with WW as well at one point? Here is a good shot of my tubing about 4 months into the use of the tubing (Tygon) and above mixture.

[BillA]

so your soln is Tygon and not the additives . . .
now you have me curious to put some pieces of different tubing in a loop
I never have understood even how to deal with this white stuff, I know HydrX is not the answer

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by BillA

so your soln is Tygon and not the additives . . .
now you have me curious to put some pieces of different tubing in a loop
I never have understood even how to deal with this white stuff, I know HydrX is not the answer

Bill dont confuse the 'white stuff' that everyone (including you and me) see when they use vinyl or clearflex. My clearflex went white within 3 months... I wont ever use it again. I hear this from everyone about vinyl/clearflex. Now the part i meant not to confuse is that WITHOUT water wetter, I have found that Tygon will stay crystal clear for a long time, maybe 2 years or so. With WW, it will cloud up much sooner and then start to turn brownish.

[BillA]

aw crap, is the white film the plasticizer coming out of the vinyl ?
(Clearflex is a vinyl I believe)

it is not a wax, but it is a soft powder that will agglomerate

[bigben2k]

Clearflex 60 is PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride) so yes, vinyl.
http://www.flextubing.com/SelectionG...selectionguide

[gmat]

I've got the white film. And Tygon R3603. Here's a sample:

Using only distilled water, then distilled water + car antifreeze.

[nikhsub1]

gmat how old is that tubing? That is what WW does to my Tygon, but with the AF i use this does not happen...

[Etacovda]

Originally Posted by BillA

aw crap, is the white film the plasticizer coming out of the vinyl ?
(Clearflex is a vinyl I believe)

it is not a wax, but it is a soft powder that will agglomerate

jeez Bill, i TOLD you clearflex (all clearflex) plates out when i sent you that anti-algae sol...
Straight distilled water makes clearflex plate out, mine did significantly in less than a week. Its most certainly not an additive doing it (although an additive might be the solution, at what cost i cannot say).

I'm sure ive got some clean CF left around here somewhere, ill grab some medical bottles and various fluids and do some testing... unfortunately i dont have enough pumps to do more than a couple of samples at once, so ill just do them in still water.

[BillA]

yea,
but I've been thinking the white stuff was from the coolant, not from the hoses
is this correct ? not too sure
no white stuff with silicone tubing ?
no, I've had systems with just silicone tubing - but not straight water

[Etacovda]

I cant speak for silicon (assume tygon is silicon based?) tubing as ive never used it, but ive heard from multiple sources (friends, forums, etc) that tygon doesnt cloud; or at least, does so much, much more slowly.

As i said, ive run PURE distilled water with ZERO other additives with clearflex, and it still plated. This was with a copper/plastic loop (50z, mcw6002, copper sweeper elbows, heatercore) - whether this was from parts contamination or not, i dont know - but every other user ive talked to has developed the white plating like gmat has shown above with clearflex, with any or no additives, which leads me to believe that the clearflex itself is doing the damage. If its not, its the water - in which case a preventative solution needs to be added to stop it, i guess - but im no chemist.

[gmat]

The tubing i posted in photo is quite old (the colour was white when i removed it from my loop). It never saw any WW, as i said, only distilled water, and later antifreeze. Maybe Tygon coats more slowly but it still gets the white deposit over time. The tubing i currently have running is like 2 year old, and it's white as well.
My loop is copper + plastic (tygon tubing, reservoir) + brass (heatercore, fittings) + some nylon fittings

[BillA]

we have some conflicts in our empirical evidence ?
or Scott has a (unique ?) mix sought by many

5% Zerex AF + 3% Hy-Per Lube + distilled water
with Tygon tubing, 4 months and running . . . .

sounds better than what I know

-> anyone else have a no-white-film recipe ?
(a million time topic)

Scott
the tubing may appear clear as the film builds, while wet
I know we are at the heart of your beast, but can you ck if the film is there when the tube is dry ?
(I'm suspecting it just may not yet be visible ?? I've had systems ok for a while.)

[Bugsmasher]

I am not what one would call a heavily experienced WCer but...

Is there some chance the plating is actually some form of corrosion coming from the rad/HC that is being used in the loop? Vinyl tubing will not have a completely smooth surface and as such fine particled corrosion would find a place to nest.

Just wondering if anyone has tried to create a basically pH neutral fluid for WCing or would the fluid continue to have shifting pH due to contact with metals in the loop?

***EDIT***
A little more information that may be of use...

On my last iteration of my WCing setup I mixed both some left-over Clearflex and some Masterkleer tubing. Both were PVC type yet the Clearflex 'clouded' faster and more noticably than the Masterkleer. My mix was approximately 10% Propylene Glycol, 90% distilled, and trace Iodine. Possibly a difference in manufacturing processes considering both were basically the same material?

[guandi]

Here is some stuff you need to know about the additives you lot are putting in your loops...

To start with all this super dooper racing car coolant like Water Wetter etc doesnt last that long before it starts to degrade and break down as its supposed to be changed frequently. ask anyone thats worked on high perf. racing cars how often they change the coolant, sometimes its before every race, even on the cars and trucks i work on its every 6 months.

Using the wrong sort of antifreeze will seriously mess with your tubing. Where i work we have 6 different antifreeze barrels, 2 blue, 2 yellow, 1 red and 1 bright pink. i dont know them all off by heart but i know you can only certain ones in certain vehicles, if you put the yellow in a Volkswagon thats supposed to take pink it will literally eat the aluminium head for instance, but if you put the pink into a Saab/Scania thats supposed to take blue it will melt the hoses. and if you dont replace the red stuff in newer fords with the same stuff it sometimes wont even start thanks to the sensors in the water giving the ECU the wrong signals.

And as for Iodine, that will turn water cloudy anyway and its that "cloud" that sticks to the inside of the pipes depending on its surface texture and how pourus(sp?) it is.

The only solution i have found that will last 3-4 years plus is Ethylene Glycol Antifreeze (blue) and pure de-ionised water, i usually get a gallon (5ltr) of de-ionised straight off the shelf at work, pour out 1ltr and then fill it up to the top from the ethelyne glycol antifreeze drum.

I built a loop for my brother with clearflex 6 months ago (Iwaki/120mmHC/DtekWW/ClearFlex) and put the above mix in and its still clear as crystal, and its been in all three of my Tygon loops and a PVC Asetek Waterchill loop, so i dont think its tubing specific, it just depends on what the tubing has to react with.

besides, i like blue.

[gmat]

I have the blue antifreeze as well. Got the white film in about 6 months... I suspect it's some kind of lifeform, either bacteria or algae, that lives in hot water, and survives to antifreeze

[nikhsub1]

Bill, When I take the current rig down (working on Beast III ATM) I will let hoses dry and see. I could very well have some white film when dry, but ATM it looks crystal still. I can say for certain that with the mixture I use, Clearflex sucks big time, gets white in a few weeks. It would be interesting to see if a cleaning of this white substance (Airspirit's concoction comes to mind, 90% pinesol and 10% listerine was it?) to see if the tubing would stay clearer longer after such cleansing. Perhaps this 'plating' is a one time thing? I may give this a go as I have some of my old clearflex lying around.

[nikhsub1]

Found a pic with the clearflex in action, you can clearly see it being not so clear.

[Bugsmasher]

Wasnt Airspirits mix Pin-sol and Lysol (liquid)?