Coolants (again)

[Marci]

Wotcha folks - another resurrection on coolants... but not the usual... a nice easy one!

1: http://www.liquidcosworth.com/coolant/default.asp - looks ok for use in PCs to me... confirmation?

2: Anything on the market for testing for presence of glycol in a solution?

Am asking for multiple reasons, both PC Watercooling and Race-Engine cooling...

[gmat]

Ah i'd like to get my hands on that. Know a way to get a bottle in EU ?
Sounds good enough and they insist on the points that make Redline WW bad (although they dont mention smell...) - like no surface coating. I'd happily replace my antifreeze with that...

[Marci]

Working on it at the mo fer racing (whilst at same time trying to get the "no coolant additives" rule lifted - cos I'm sick of the state of my radiator after a season... oldfashioned ruling that's stayed around FAR too long cos no-one's pointed out to the committee etc that there are coolants out there without glycol - but know their immediate answer - "but how can you tell what it is they've got in it" ie: that they're using a legal coolant, assuming I manage to get all non-glycol based corrosion-inhibitor only coolants allowed - can get it swayed if can find a quick cheap way to test for glycol presence in coolant)

[Marci]

Got some...!

Anyone know of a good cheap source for refractors? (for the race useage)

[BillA]

indirectly through sg
but that is not a "no glycol" test

gas chromatography is definitive but you don't want to go there
if the refractometers are acceptable they are the cheapest I know of

[ProHandyman]

The product looks interesting, though am bit concerned about Ph levels if used in a water cooling loop. Also, doesn't look to have any algeacidal properties?

Did some searching here in the US, seems the automotive glycol refractors are going for $100-125 (70 quid plus vat) on average. I'll check with a local high volume shop on where they buy theirs (though I'm guessing it will be an high cost version). Not sure what a racer would consider inexpensive? I think the sactioning body should be responsible for test equiptment, part of compliance? I see your point for convincing them that these modern chems are safe when properly used, and testing for contamination/glycol presence is not prohibitive.

[Marci]

but that is not a "no glycol" test

Any recomendations? Gotta be useable trackside by the lowest-common-denominator (iq)

Problem - I am on the Committee of the sanctioning body... hence I'm havin' to find it out... every track in UK still runs the old "coolant additives banned" ruling purely on the glycol issue. MMRA will be doing the buying, so would've thought anything up to £250 for summat handheld, easy to use, preferably as plain n' simple that an ape could work it. Old-skool petrol-heads = hate electronics, no matter how simple.

[ProHandyman]

There are a number of test strip tests that will detect even the most minute levels of glycol, in any fluid, including blood. I would have to check on prices... but most only contain 25 strips per tests. Those may answer testing the most reliably, but unsure of cost, though should be able to be sourced just about anywhere's in the US, UK, and Europe.

[BillA]

the sg of pure ethylene glycol is 1.09678, propylene glycol 0.96527
so sg per se is not definitive re glycol if it is a blanket prohibition
ethylene based is the problem, propylene based is also used as a food additive (I believe)
if you can 'sell' the distinction then sg could be useful

http://cgi.ebay.com/Princo-Specific-...QQcmdZViewItem
these can be had in all ranges to varying accuracy, got to be temp compensated; there are ASTM and DIN procedures for use
- also automated setups

PH's strips are probably the easiest for 'no glycol'

[nikhsub1]

Hmm, looks interesting but it is Ford don't forget

[LiquidCosworth]

Folks,

A hydrometer measures specific gravity and will be inaccurate as noted above. A refractometer measures the refractive index and should work for you. Index of refraction for water is 1.33,
polyethylene glycol ~ 1.47 (from this reference: http://www.biocompare.com/productdet...-USB-Corp.html)
polypropylene glycol ~1.45 (from this reference: http://www.dow.com/polyglycols/ppgc/...ducts/ppgs.htm)

They can be purchased in the US for $50, e.g. http://www.apexbattery.com/battery-refractometer.html

This is an explanation of how hydrometers and refractometers differ.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb2001/mech.cfm

Test strips will give you inaccurate results also due to the various anti-corrossion additives used; the newer, silicate-free additives, especially.

[Marci]

Well, have sat a chunk o copper n' a chunk of ali in a tub submersed in the above coolant additive mixed at manufacturer's spec with distilled...

result of pH test is 8...

[LiquidCosworth]

That's about correct. Long life coolants have lower initial pH than older technology phosphate and borate chemistry, which may exhibit an initial pH of 9-10. In service, the long life technology pH decreases with use at half or less the rate, also. Similarly, the reserve alkalinity starts lower, but the traditional spec is based on, well, traditional chemistry, so it isn't useful.

A search of long life coolants for the automotive industry will show that because the newer additives weren't amenable to the bench test evaluations used for older additives, the traditional antifreeze marketers used it to their advantage. Now, however, field tests by the car companies (resulting in the GM DEX-COOL certification) and long-life marketers have proven the benefits.

For example:
http://www.taligentx.com/passat/info...fe_Coolant.pdf

[taqueso]

Originally Posted by Marci

Well, have sat a chunk o copper n' a chunk of ali in a tub submersed in the above coolant additive mixed at manufacturer's spec with distilled...

Any problems so far with the test?

[Marci]

All fine so far... coming out as pH6...

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by Marci

Any recomendations? Gotta be useable trackside

I've always had no problem getting through tech inspection with Valvoline Racing Coolant (which seems similar in function to this stuff).
I think the tech inspectors are just looking for the dye colors used to mark the three current types of anti-freeze.
So maybe it's as simple as drawing up a bit into a tube with a white card behind and making sure there aren't any "banned" colors.
I guess you could print up some card stock with squares of "banned" colors and use it with those bulb-and-tube arrangements used to test antifreeze specific gravity.
It could also just be a matter of getting a few drops on your finger and thumb and "feeling" for slipperyness". It's a distinctive feel.
[edit] LC is right - a refractometer is the way to go. Unsure if the non-glycol solutions would change refraction, but it would be easy enough to test. I never saw one of these at the track, though - but I never got past being an amateur[/edit]

BTW, I dropped a bike on an antifreeze spill once (but on a public road). A cop stopped and got out of his cruiser with ticket-tablet in hand (guess he was going to write me up for being reckless or something) but then he fell down. It's very slippery.
Oh - and no, I didn't get a ticket.