Would you buy a DigiBus?

I am currently in a position to possibly design and sell a software-based fan control solution.

Would anyone be interested in buying this? 'This' would be a fan control and monitoring board that would connect to SMBus (most motherboards have SMBus headers) and would allow 2-18 sets of speed controlled fan ports with RPM monitors and temperature sensors. Using software you could define which temperature sensors triggered which fans, and power ranges/start power for each fan. It would use large power regulators so fast 120mm fans would be supported. It would draw power from a single Molex or Floppy Drive power connector. It would be available with 2-18 sets of fan/temp connectors, and depending on number of connectors would probably cost $20-$70 or somewhere in that range. This would also include a Force switch that would mount on the outside of the case. When you push the switch all fans would come on at full and stay on until the switch was released.

The 'Option Pack' would turn this into a full DigitalDoc5 replacement. The unit would occupy a 5 1/4" drive bay, and would have an external 20x2 LCD panel, or a 20x4 LCD with 2 drive bays. VFD displays (black background, bright glow letters) would also be available, but for more $$. This would connect either to serial or also SMBus, and would be driven with a LCDriver plugin so you could use it for other things too.
The Option kits would start at around $120 and would include your choice of fan controller and display. The entire thing would mount in a free drive bay, and the Force switch would be integrated into the bay.

And so, before I embark in the wonder of PCB design, I was wondering, would anyone buy this?

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: IronHelix ]

[Strafe]

I'm hella interested, was planning on investigating something like this after I build my new machine.

[Kevin]

I think we would all be interested. This idea wsa thrown around by Cole and a few others associated w/ CaseEtc. The HOCP forum maggots were really into this. If you make it and give it to someone to review (assuming it turns out well), I have a feeling you could sell a boatload of these things.
-Kevin

[Brians256]

That kind of thing sounds great, which is why I got into fan control in the first place. However, I worry about "software control". Software has a bad habit of hanging or otherwise failing to work. If the fans get stuck at a slow speed because the software didn't do it's job...

That's why I'm doing a pure hardware approach with thermistor control instead of software.

If you had a watchdog override which allowed software to be overriden if it wasn't working, that might work well. But, it'd be much more expensive I think.

Also, were you thinking of a continuous range of power control or a set of discrete steps (e.g. 5V, 7V, 12V)?

This would most likely have a setup where the software would query the board every 2-20 seconds, and if the board sees no activity on SMBus for 30 seconds it forces all fans full on. Alternatively the temperature sensor may be able to trigger the force function on an overtemp. This MAY be doable with little extra cost, still investigating.

With any luck the included software will run as a service so on nt/2k machines the software will be automatically restarted should it crash. Not that that would ever happen

The control system I'm looking at right now would have pulse-modulation controllers with a 8 bit setting, so there would be 256 power states. This means that instead of doing 12v, 5v, 7v etc. it would only take 12v but pulse it on and off really fast to give the required fanspeed. The pulsing would go fast enough so as not to be audible to the user. These controllers could take up to 3000mA or 3A so you could plug several standard or 2-3 high power fans into each. Also since it uses pulse modulation instead of linear regulators, the controllers themselves would generate very little heat.


I am also looking into some 'stupid' ideas that might make it more fun. Would you guys be interested in any of the following for a few bucks more:?

LED connectors that would light up LEDs based on fan activity, thermistor temp, etc. (this would be controlled by software)

Reset passthrough that would automatically force the fans when you hit RESET on your box, as well as independent force button

Additional power controllers that would blink neon, leds, etc should temp exceed limits (probably software controlled)

Overtemp Redundancy in Hardware (not software). This would on a high temperature reading force all fans on full, hold down RESET (see above), or with a power button passthru would turn off the computer.

Settable Addressing: Would with a SMBus passthrough and some jumpers allow you to have more than one unit per SMBus port. This would only apply if the unit you buy has less than the full 18 fans. Advantage here is if you want to save some cash and buy a small one, you can buy another small one later instead of buying a large one and having a useless small one.


Also what would you like to see in the box?

Minimal: you get a traced PCB a bag of components and a CD. Wires sold separately, assemble yourself.

Small: Fully assembled PCB, install CD.

Medium: Fully assembled PCB, CD, and all wires required for setup

Mounted: Fully assembled PCB, CD, drive bay mounting kit

Mounted and Wired: Fully assembled PCB, CD, drive bay kit and all wires

The Full Shebang: Fully assembled PCB, CD, Drive Bay Kit with LCD in front and all wires

Obviously some of these would cost more to produce than others. One thing I'm considering is leaving the CD out all together and just having a download. (the software would be downloadable anyway). This saves either the cost of getting it stamped or the time of burning them.

I am looking for your input on this, because if I do anything larger than a few prototypes on breadboards it will be you that will (hopefully) be buying it. I personally like buying things that do everything I want them to do, not most of what I want them to do (*cough*DigiDoc5*cough*). If I take this into some kind of production, I want it to be everything you guys want it to be.

Also, really dumb question, what would you name this project? Digibus is non-descriptive and besides the domain digibus.com is taken. It should be at least a little descriptive, easy to remember and not something that would discourage a hardcore overclocker.

Thanks!

[Joe]

could you explain the SMBus headers? what the pin count is? and what the orginal use for the headers was?

I know where they are on most Abit boards just currious if you have more info on what these headers were for?

[Jonas]

i want temp headers on it.

SMBus (System Management Bus) is an implementation of I2C, a type of serial data bus. SMBus is just I2C at 100kbps (lowest speed of I2C, there are faster variants)) and is a bus designed for hooking up power management and various other system-related stuff. Its used in laptops for connecting 'Smart' batteries, temperature sensors, etc, and most mobos have SMBus headers. Also, Matrix Orbital LCDs can connect to SMBus, which is much more convienant (no wire sticking out of case or ugly USB adapter inside). SMBus isnt without flaws tho, the biggest one being addressing. When it was designed, most laptops had one battery. So it was designed that all batteries would have the same address. This is why many chipsets now have two SMBus headers- because you need one for each battery.

The card would use SMBus for a few reasons... 1.Most chipsets have it, 2.Nothing sticking outside the computer (like a serial cable) is required, and 3.the fan controllers I'm looking at have I2C connections.

[iceheart]

Uhh I've never seen such a header on any motherboard.

thats strange... most ABIT and ASUS boards have them and I would assume most others as many southbridges have SMBus. The connector isnt always two wires... on my KG7 its a 4 pin header in ··· · arrangement

[Joe]

Well from what your setup sounds like, it would be like Case Etc's forthcoming Digital Bay Bus, but the serial interface to the SMBus connections would OWN it. I really want something that I can do temp everything a Digi Doc can do. With a better LCD, a few more features, and have it interface to a Serial/SMbus connection so that I can monitor in windows with alerts and logging also.
and it sounds JUST like what you are building.

My Abit, and Tyan boards have 2 SMbus 4 pin connections on them.

hmmm... I remember reading about the Digital Bay Bus a while ago but had kind of forgotton it. In case anyone cares, heres a kind of comparison between my project (DigiBus) and the Digital Bay Bus(DBB). All DBB info taken from the DBB faq page at http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/db.html

DBB: highly integrated/customized solution using microcontroller and specialized ROM programming
DigiBus: Low parts count solution using mostly ASICs and off the shelf components to lower cost

DBB: fully controlled by onboard ROM, no software connection except for LCDriver.
DigiBus: Fully controlled by PC software with the exception of overheat redundancy

DBB: presumably uses relays to provide 12v/7v/off at 10 amps to 8 fans.
DigiBus: Uses PWM controllers to provide 256 speed settings at 3 amps per channel. Number of channels would depend on the board, up to 18 channels per SMBus projected.

DBB: Spring terminals or RCA jacks for fan power, no fanspeed monitoring.
DigiBus: 3-Pin 'Motherboard header' jacks for fans, all RPMs monitored and reported to software.

DBB: Display driven by ROM with possibility of computer control
DigiBus: Display driven by computer and software plugins.

DBB: Functionality and settings set using integrated keypad.
DigiBus: All functionality provided by software.

DBB: LCD essential to operation, serves as single human interface but also allows computer control of LCD
DigiBus: LCD is merely an extra and is not required, human interface provided through software.

DBB: Temp. Overheat (hopefully) causes all fans full on.
DigiBus: Overheat forces all fans and shuts down computer through software (which will read your mobo CPU thermistor). Overheat redundancy forces all fans in hardware. POSSIBLY: all fans forced if connection to software is lost

DBB: Anodized aluminum enclosure for front panel. Spare keypad space used for joystick, audio, USB ports, able to mount a 3.5" HDD behind LCD.
DigiBus: Front panel not required, will probably be supplied by LCD manufacturer.

DBB: Price TBD, estimated $75-$100
DigiBus: Also TBD, estimate $30-$80 depending on number of fans controlled.

DBB: Two parts, a fan control unit with a ribbon cable leading to the LCD.
DigiBus: The board will likely be quite small except for the fan connections. Still deciding wether or not to integrate into a drive bay. Everything could probably fit in a 3.5" bay except the LCD.

DBB: Held a contest to get a new name. Lots of possibles, nothing stands out.
DigiBus: About to hold a contest, keep reading at the end. (we're original like that)

DBB: Available "by the end of the summer"
DigiBus: No fsckin clue, probably 3 months range. (remember this uses ASICs so little PCB design or ROM programming required)

And because I feel bored...

Cole: Active on [H]ardForum
IronHelix: Active on Pro/Forum and occasionally [H]ardForum

Cole: Owns a business.
IronHelix: 0w|\|z punkass beeotches in Quake (or tries to)

---------------------------------------------

Anyway for the contest...

Real simple, think up a name, post it here, if I use yours you get a free DigiBus.

And for the legaleze,
By submitting you grant me a non-exclusive right to use your submission in any manner deemed fit. If your submission is chosen for the product you will recieve a DigiBus if/as/when they go into production, or a prototype. I reserve the right to throw out, make funny faces at or otherwise refuse any entry blah blah blah....

bottom line as said above think of a name that I can call the DigiBus and you get one.

Also I am looking for any sort of suggestions for design... do you want the fan controller to be in a drive bay or separate? 3.5 or 5.12 drivebay? want space for a hard drive behind it? etc.

Thanks
--IH

[Joe]

Originally posted by IronHelix:
Cole: Active on [H]ardForum
IronHelix: Active on Pro/Forum and occasionally [H]ardForum

Oh man good call on that one

I think both products have their own goods, some people will obviously go with one and others will go with something else. I personally REALLY want the software interface I feel thats more important than anything else. Also the PWM controler is SO nice.

[Butcher]

Sounds great, just one hitch, I'd want to build that sort of thing myself, just for kicks

[Kevin]

Are you prepared to receive a large amount of orders? Do you think you could make a bunch? So far I am VERY interested though... Best of luck to you!
-Kevin

yeah, interest in this is more than I expected. If this does go into 'production' I will probably be getting it fab'd or manufactured somehow. If/as/when it goes into production I will do everything in my power to keep up w/ demand... I know the feeling of wanting to buy something but you cant find any *cough*KlipschProMedia5.1*cough*

BTW, does anyone know any good manuf/fab companes that would do a run of 200-500 of these (small PCB built to spec, possibly with packaging) for a good price?

Once I get the layout and first prototype built I will definately post pics.

I'm sure there are lots of DIYers here that would love to build their own, once its complete the layout will be freely available online. If it does not increase the fab cost, I will also provide a kit with a pretraced PCB and bag of components to solder... not sure how practical this is tho (some of the asic's I'm considering are VERY small, less than 1/4" wide, hard to solder).

Also one other possible feature... I'm considering using Winbond hardware monitor chips for the temperature sensors. This would mean a few things... for one thing the 18 fan board might have as many as 12 low-power PWM fan outputs from the Winbond chips. Thats on top of the 18 high power. I've always believed that more choice is better... just investigating how much extra price and PCB size this will mean. Would this be a useful feature?

I'm working on a website for this that should be up in a week or so... I've been busy in my 'real' life so I havent had much time to work on the project.


-----------------------------------------------------------

Also here is a quick 15 question survey that will greatly help me with this... only takes a minute and if I pick your name you get a free digibus... if you dont want to post publicly email me ironhelix@ironhelix.net with your answers.


For the following, please rate your approximate level of interest on a scale from 0-10, 0 being strongly dislike, 5 being dont care and 10 being strongly like.

1. Dual part software, IE frontend sits in tray or not at all, backend runs as W2k service

2. LED connectors that would light up LEDs based on fan activity, thermistor temp, etc. (this would be controlled by software)

3. Reset passthrough that would automatically force the fans when you hit RESET on your box, as well as independent force button

4. Additional power controllers that would blink neon, leds, etc should temp exceed limits

5. Overtemp Redundancy in Hardware (not software). This would on a high temperature reading force all fans on full, hold down RESET (see above), or with a power button passthru would turn off the computer.

6. Settable Addressing: Would with a SMBus passthrough and some jumpers allow you to have more than one unit per SMBus port

7. Winbond HM chips (instead of normal thermoprobes): Would mean more out-of-box compatibility with HM programs, and a whole buncha (possibly 10+) low-power PWM fan headers. The unit WILL come with thermoprobes, just maybe not Winbond ones.

8. Ability to mount a hard drive behind the LCD, if bought.


Would you be interested in buying the following? Please rate interest 0-5, 0 being no interest 5 being would definately buy.

9. Kit Option: You get a bag of chips, a PCB and a diagram of where to solder what.

10. LCD Option 1: Comes bundled with a single drive bay 16x2 or 20x2 software LCD screen, with Fan Force button

11. LCD option 2: Comes bundled with a full height (2x 5.25" bay) 20x4 software LCD screen and integrated Fan Force button


12. Which version would you be most likely to buy? (please select one)
a. 2 Hipower fans, 2+ thermal probe, 2+ Lopower fans
b. 4 Hipower fans, 4+ thermal probe, 5+ Lopower fans
c. 8 Hipower fans, 9+ thermal probe, 6+ Lopower fans
d. 18 Hipower fans, 18+ thermal probe, 12+ Lopower fans


13. What kind of package would you be most likely to buy?
a. Minimal: you get a traced PCB a bag of components and a CD. Wires sold separately, assemble yourself.
b. Small: Fully assembled PCB, install CD.
c. Medium: Fully assembled PCB, CD, and all wires required for setup
d. Mounted: Fully assembled PCB, CD, drive bay mounting kit
e. Mounted and Wired: Fully assembled PCB, CD, drive bay kit and all wires
f. The Full Shebang: Fully assembled PCB, CD, Drive Bay Kit with LCD in front and all wires


14. NAME CONTEST
Come up with a new name for this project. You can put as many names as you want. If I pick your name and use it for the project, you will get a FREE unit when they are released.


15. Why? (this does not relate to any other question)

/edit: clarified question 7

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: IronHelix ]

come on... I need input here... fill out some surveys and win stuff...

Anyway the fan controller I'm going to use (at least in Prototype 1) wont be available for 4-6 weeks...
I may be able to scrounge some up from a local office, we shall see.

[Jonas]

1. 10
2. 10
3. 5
4. 1
5. 10
6. 1 if someone needs more than one of these then they hav more problems than solutions available. answer reduce problems.
7. 11 yes thats an 11 have to have the temp monitor
8. 5 who mounts hdds in their 5.25 bays? *shrug*
9. 0.0 anyone who would bother with this is just being silly. the cost of components is going to be at least CLOSE(10-20) to the premade. why bother.
10. 10 one drive bay 20x2 sounds good to me. color options would be nice...backlight?
11. 5 maybe for anyone who wants it...but again seems overkill
12. c.
13. hard to answer. i'd like to see a power hookup, temp probes, and mounting kit...but not like a drive bay cover i have enough of those. maybe just a pattern for drilling/cutting. cd? nah just have it avail for d/l saves you money and me money.
14. ummmm PuppetMaster?
15. why not?


there ya go hope it helps.