what are you looking for in a water cooling kit.

webmedic · 01-01-2002, 10:40 PM

What would you like to see in a water cooling kit and what kind of prices?

I'm looking at a basic kit with a custom heater core simmilar to the black ice but better for about 165$ installed in an antec type case without psu for about 259$. The higher end kits will start at about 200$ or so.
Does this sound resonable? If not, why? And what kinds of options would you like to see?

I'll probably be using the custom cooling water blocks.

Brad · 01-01-2002, 11:06 PM

basic one:
copper water block, maze1c style
350gph or better pump. Danner or Eheim
Heater core, at least big enough for one 120mm fan
1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout
1x GPU, NB or HDD block in parrallel with the cpu waterblock (users choice on which one)

advanced one:
copper water block, maze2 / spir@l style
600gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim
Heater core, big enough for 172mm or 2x 120mm fans
1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout
2-3x GPU, NB, HDD block in serial with each other, in their own loop parrallel to the cpu waterblock. Option to add more

2cpu one:

2x copper water blocks, maze2 / spir@l style (in parallel)
700gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim. Or 2x 350gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim.
Heatercore, big enough for 172mm or 2x 120mm fans, OR 2x Heatercore big enough for 120mm fan
1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout
2-3x GPU, NB, HDD block in serial with each other, in their own loop parrallel to the cpu waterblocks. Option to add more

webmedic · 01-01-2002, 11:43 PM

I'm pretty close to that already but I have more a maze2 syle on all the kits. The only other thing that I was thinking different was the pump sellection. I have been wracking my brain on this one and the top end one will have ehiem but the inexpensive one probably won't.

Thanks for the other ideas. Maybe I'll put a smaller block on the basic one and add a gpu and nortbridge cooler or something. Oh and I'm looking at 1/2 to 5/8 sizes for the tubing. All silicone of course. I'll probably not even have an option for 3/8.

Brad · 01-02-2002, 12:48 AM

yeah, no problems there, I just said maze1c style cause of cost

Hedgren · 01-03-2002, 04:40 PM

Basic should come with a "Socket370" block for the users that dont want to remove their motherboard every time they have their CPU removed. Also their should be a "Socket370" block as option for the more advanced kits as well.

Nanoblock for the basic!

Maybe peltier for the advanced kits including foam and such?

Brad · 01-03-2002, 05:25 PM

yeah, the maze1c style block would be an option across the range, maybe $5 or $10 cheaper.

You could option on a pelt at any point through the range as well I suppose

webmedic · 01-03-2002, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the ideas. I keep these in mind as I work on the kit. I will probably work with custom cooling and maybe we can come up with a mounting bracket but for now thats the main drawback to doing the maze1 style blocks.

Brad · 01-04-2002, 03:55 AM

no problem with his blocks, but you do need a nice mounting way, and I dunno how kindly dden would appreciate you copying their design. I know I wouldn't like it either.

Do you think you could make a holddown that is just like a normal everyday heatsink holddown?

webmedic · 01-04-2002, 08:54 AM

Yes I agree but also for the forseable future most new motherboards will have the four holes. The only advatage to the other design is that it will work on older motherboards and that you dont have to pull your motherboard to mount it. Still the bad part of these is that the mounting bracket adds enough to the cost that it doesn't end up being any cheaper. Ever try to get a shop to make little brackets for you? The only way to get this cost down is to order a couple hundred at a time. Which isn't doable for me at this point. I could easiy work with quatities of ten at a time or so but not much more than that.

Brians256 · 01-04-2002, 10:28 AM

Maybe you should take a look at the comprehensive and wide-ranging review done by Tom's Hardware Guide. He reviewed the entire market and did an indepth analysis of exactly what makes a good watercooling kit. In fact, his review tells me exactly what I need to look for when finding my own kit.

Oh, I forgot to include the SARCASM warnings.

Don't mind me, I'm grumpy this morning.

Joe · 01-04-2002, 10:43 AM

hahaha Nice

webmedic · 01-04-2002, 11:54 AM

You know I'm being serious by posting here. Thats why I didn't post this someplace like hardocp. The people here seem to be more realistic. As for toms thats a joke. As for my kit I have been lurking and building for a fairly long while. Just don't post much. Anyway I would honestly like to know what others think. No matter how well I or others plan there are people that whoulod like to see more or less in a product. This is why I would like to know what others expect. I can put out a good system that I think is the best. It may cool very well and perform in the top 2% or 3% but in noone likes the way it is set up then what good whould it do?

Brians256 · 01-04-2002, 03:04 PM

I'm a bad person to ask, because I am intent on building my own. But.... I'd like to see systems with a decent waterblock and a heatercore-based radiator. A Danner or Eheim pump would be good. Also, a simple means of filling and draining the system is essential! You could have a valve at the bottom for drain and a reservoir/airtrap at the top. Oh, and it had better be cheaper than Koolance, because I doubt you want to add electronically controlled fan speed.

I would suggest that it will be hard to make money on this. Be careful. But, I wish you luck!

That's my two cents.

Brad · 01-05-2002, 06:49 AM

yeah, a heatercore, and a decent block is a defianate must, why else would you want to go watercooling?

the idea of getting water in and out easily is very good too. we'd all like to have that.

as for thg, pfft, what idiots

Butcher · 01-05-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brians256
I'm a bad person to ask, because I am intent on building my own. But.... I'd like to see systems with a decent waterblock and a heatercore-based radiator. A Danner or Eheim pump would be good. Also, a simple means of filling and draining the system is essential! You could have a valve at the bottom for drain and a reservoir/airtrap at the top. Oh, and it had better be cheaper than Koolance, because I doubt you want to add electronically controlled fan speed.

I would suggest that it will be hard to make money on this. Be careful. But, I wish you luck!

That's my two cents.

Electric fan speed control is easy, theyshould put it in more kits.

webmedic · 01-06-2002, 01:30 PM

I will have the majority of my site built in a fewq days and then I will put up some pics. For now the kit includes

Copper water block ( still working on exactly what one to use but worst case it will be dd maze block. The reason I say worst is that the cost would go up somewhat.)

Heater core. I have a few models to choose from and they will be fixed up with barbs.
1) 6 x 6 1/8 x 2 with fan shroud
2) 5 5/8 x 9 1/2 x 2 with fan shroud (perfect for 2 fans)
3) 5 5/8 x 5 5/8 x 1 1/4 with fan shroud (this one may not happen as I may not be able to get it in quantity and it will be more expensive)

Pump will have two options.
1) custom resevore with 200gph rio pump for basic kit.
2) ehiem 1250 for those that don't mind extra cost.

Tubing will be silicone on all kits.

Only other thing is that 3/8npt fittings will be standard for as many things as I have controle over. If I go with the dd maze2 block I'm stuck with 1/4npt but I'm working on something else for water block at this time.

I'm also looking into a design for easy filling But havn't come up with something cost efective yet.

Brad · 01-06-2002, 08:41 PM

everything sounds good there, but I can't see why anyone would buy a kit with a waterblock you can get from somewhere else

webmedic · 01-06-2002, 09:40 PM

Well I would be selling it at the same cost as DangerDen so the cost whould not be an issue in that way but I do have some ideas of my own. Untill I can get them produced however why not use the best.

Brad · 01-07-2002, 05:11 PM

yeah, still, at this stage, why would anyone buy something from you, when they can get the same from bigger retailers?

you need something unique to really succeed

webmedic · 01-07-2002, 05:40 PM

Thank you for your thoughts tis is one of the things that I been thinking about. Hopefully the answer would be that I offer something that others are looking for. For instance I know of a few other vendors that sell kits and they just slap a danger den block on it and call it there own.

Trust me this is not my intention I do have a few designs but getting the milling work done is a whole different story. Most of the cnc shops in my area think I'm nuts for wanting to make this.

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully Whithin a couple weeks I can have something to show.

One last thing I would like to offer a complete system Not missing any little bits. This means even the parts that make things a little easier but are not included in most kits.

Brad · 01-08-2002, 02:15 PM

in other words, clamps, cable loom, extra mounting screws, extra fan screws, finger guards for the 120's, etc

NOW, that would be great

webmedic · 01-08-2002, 03:58 PM

Yes that kind of stuff. It's comeing slowly but I'm getting all the parts rounded up. You would not believe the reactions I get from when I explain what I want. Anyway thanks for the feedback and thoughts on this. I have also been looking for a good 12v pump probably for just the low end kit but they may work better than anticipated.

And One last thing If I sell a system I'm working on maybe being able to put it into a plexiglass case. Whole thing for around 250$ I hope if the cost doesnt go up to much for the parts I'm looking at. That is to say If I can find everything I'm looking for at prices that I want.

Brians256 · 01-08-2002, 04:02 PM

Actually, we do understand. Anyone who has gone to Autozone or Home Depot for computer parts has gotten some very interesting reactions from those sales droids.

For instance, I just bought some Water Wetter and the salesman tried to talk me out of it. After all, I have a beater minivan, and that certainly doesn't need water wetter! When I explained that it was for my computer, he thought my priorities were all screwed up.

Brad · 01-08-2002, 06:33 PM

yeah, nothing wrong with a 12v pump in the bottom end kit at all.

I remember asking about radiators.

What car is it for?
it isn't for a car.
Well, what is it for?
a computer
what the ****?
uhh yeah, I'm watercooling it
thats damned wierd man
anyway, can I get a rad?
umm no, we sell car rad's only, not computer radiators
but a car radiator will do fine
no..

01-01-2002, 10:40 PM	#1
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	what are you looking for in a water cooling kit. What would you like to see in a water cooling kit and what kind of prices? I'm looking at a basic kit with a custom heater core simmilar to the black ice but better for about 165$ installed in an antec type case without psu for about 259$. The higher end kits will start at about 200$ or so. Does this sound resonable? If not, why? And what kinds of options would you like to see? I'll probably be using the custom cooling water blocks.

01-04-2002, 10:43 AM	#11
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	hahaha Nice __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

01-01-2002, 11:06 PM	#2
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	basic one: copper water block, maze1c style 350gph or better pump. Danner or Eheim Heater core, at least big enough for one 120mm fan 1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout 1x GPU, NB or HDD block in parrallel with the cpu waterblock (users choice on which one) advanced one: copper water block, maze2 / spir@l style 600gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim Heater core, big enough for 172mm or 2x 120mm fans 1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout 2-3x GPU, NB, HDD block in serial with each other, in their own loop parrallel to the cpu waterblock. Option to add more 2cpu one: 2x copper water blocks, maze2 / spir@l style (in parallel) 700gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim. Or 2x 350gph or better pump, Danner or Eheim. Heatercore, big enough for 172mm or 2x 120mm fans, OR 2x Heatercore big enough for 120mm fan 1/2" ID silicon tubing throughout 2-3x GPU, NB, HDD block in serial with each other, in their own loop parrallel to the cpu waterblocks. Option to add more

01-01-2002, 11:43 PM	#3
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	I'm pretty close to that already but I have more a maze2 syle on all the kits. The only other thing that I was thinking different was the pump sellection. I have been wracking my brain on this one and the top end one will have ehiem but the inexpensive one probably won't. Thanks for the other ideas. Maybe I'll put a smaller block on the basic one and add a gpu and nortbridge cooler or something. Oh and I'm looking at 1/2 to 5/8 sizes for the tubing. All silicone of course. I'll probably not even have an option for 3/8.

01-02-2002, 12:48 AM	#4
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, no problems there, I just said maze1c style cause of cost

01-03-2002, 04:40 PM	#5
Hedgren Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Piteå up north in sweden! Posts: 12	Basic should come with a "Socket370" block for the users that dont want to remove their motherboard every time they have their CPU removed. Also their should be a "Socket370" block as option for the more advanced kits as well. Nanoblock for the basic! Maybe peltier for the advanced kits including foam and such?

01-03-2002, 05:25 PM	#6
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, the maze1c style block would be an option across the range, maybe $5 or $10 cheaper. You could option on a pelt at any point through the range as well I suppose

01-03-2002, 09:19 PM	#7
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Thanks for the ideas. I keep these in mind as I work on the kit. I will probably work with custom cooling and maybe we can come up with a mounting bracket but for now thats the main drawback to doing the maze1 style blocks.

01-04-2002, 03:55 AM	#8
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	no problem with his blocks, but you do need a nice mounting way, and I dunno how kindly dden would appreciate you copying their design. I know I wouldn't like it either. Do you think you could make a holddown that is just like a normal everyday heatsink holddown?

01-04-2002, 08:54 AM	#9
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Yes I agree but also for the forseable future most new motherboards will have the four holes. The only advatage to the other design is that it will work on older motherboards and that you dont have to pull your motherboard to mount it. Still the bad part of these is that the mounting bracket adds enough to the cost that it doesn't end up being any cheaper. Ever try to get a shop to make little brackets for you? The only way to get this cost down is to order a couple hundred at a time. Which isn't doable for me at this point. I could easiy work with quatities of ten at a time or so but not much more than that.

01-04-2002, 10:28 AM	#10
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Maybe you should take a look at the comprehensive and wide-ranging review done by Tom's Hardware Guide. He reviewed the entire market and did an indepth analysis of exactly what makes a good watercooling kit. In fact, his review tells me exactly what I need to look for when finding my own kit. Oh, I forgot to include the SARCASM warnings. Don't mind me, I'm grumpy this morning.

01-04-2002, 11:54 AM	#12
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	You know I'm being serious by posting here. Thats why I didn't post this someplace like hardocp. The people here seem to be more realistic. As for toms thats a joke. As for my kit I have been lurking and building for a fairly long while. Just don't post much. Anyway I would honestly like to know what others think. No matter how well I or others plan there are people that whoulod like to see more or less in a product. This is why I would like to know what others expect. I can put out a good system that I think is the best. It may cool very well and perform in the top 2% or 3% but in noone likes the way it is set up then what good whould it do?

01-04-2002, 03:04 PM	#13
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	I'm a bad person to ask, because I am intent on building my own. But.... I'd like to see systems with a decent waterblock and a heatercore-based radiator. A Danner or Eheim pump would be good. Also, a simple means of filling and draining the system is essential! You could have a valve at the bottom for drain and a reservoir/airtrap at the top. Oh, and it had better be cheaper than Koolance, because I doubt you want to add electronically controlled fan speed. I would suggest that it will be hard to make money on this. Be careful. But, I wish you luck! That's my two cents.

01-05-2002, 06:49 AM	#14
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, a heatercore, and a decent block is a defianate must, why else would you want to go watercooling? the idea of getting water in and out easily is very good too. we'd all like to have that. as for thg, pfft, what idiots

01-06-2002, 01:30 PM	#16
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	I will have the majority of my site built in a fewq days and then I will put up some pics. For now the kit includes Copper water block ( still working on exactly what one to use but worst case it will be dd maze block. The reason I say worst is that the cost would go up somewhat.) Heater core. I have a few models to choose from and they will be fixed up with barbs. 1) 6 x 6 1/8 x 2 with fan shroud 2) 5 5/8 x 9 1/2 x 2 with fan shroud (perfect for 2 fans) 3) 5 5/8 x 5 5/8 x 1 1/4 with fan shroud (this one may not happen as I may not be able to get it in quantity and it will be more expensive) Pump will have two options. 1) custom resevore with 200gph rio pump for basic kit. 2) ehiem 1250 for those that don't mind extra cost. Tubing will be silicone on all kits. Only other thing is that 3/8npt fittings will be standard for as many things as I have controle over. If I go with the dd maze2 block I'm stuck with 1/4npt but I'm working on something else for water block at this time. I'm also looking into a design for easy filling But havn't come up with something cost efective yet.

01-06-2002, 08:41 PM	#17
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	everything sounds good there, but I can't see why anyone would buy a kit with a waterblock you can get from somewhere else

01-06-2002, 09:40 PM	#18
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Well I would be selling it at the same cost as DangerDen so the cost whould not be an issue in that way but I do have some ideas of my own. Untill I can get them produced however why not use the best.

01-07-2002, 05:11 PM	#19
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, still, at this stage, why would anyone buy something from you, when they can get the same from bigger retailers? you need something unique to really succeed

01-07-2002, 05:40 PM	#20
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Thank you for your thoughts tis is one of the things that I been thinking about. Hopefully the answer would be that I offer something that others are looking for. For instance I know of a few other vendors that sell kits and they just slap a danger den block on it and call it there own. Trust me this is not my intention I do have a few designs but getting the milling work done is a whole different story. Most of the cnc shops in my area think I'm nuts for wanting to make this. Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully Whithin a couple weeks I can have something to show. One last thing I would like to offer a complete system Not missing any little bits. This means even the parts that make things a little easier but are not included in most kits.

01-08-2002, 02:15 PM	#21
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	in other words, clamps, cable loom, extra mounting screws, extra fan screws, finger guards for the 120's, etc NOW, that would be great

01-08-2002, 03:58 PM	#22
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Yes that kind of stuff. It's comeing slowly but I'm getting all the parts rounded up. You would not believe the reactions I get from when I explain what I want. Anyway thanks for the feedback and thoughts on this. I have also been looking for a good 12v pump probably for just the low end kit but they may work better than anticipated. And One last thing If I sell a system I'm working on maybe being able to put it into a plexiglass case. Whole thing for around 250$ I hope if the cost doesnt go up to much for the parts I'm looking at. That is to say If I can find everything I'm looking for at prices that I want.

01-08-2002, 04:02 PM	#23
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Actually, we do understand. Anyone who has gone to Autozone or Home Depot for computer parts has gotten some very interesting reactions from those sales droids. For instance, I just bought some Water Wetter and the salesman tried to talk me out of it. After all, I have a beater minivan, and that certainly doesn't need water wetter! When I explained that it was for my computer, he thought my priorities were all screwed up.

01-08-2002, 06:33 PM	#24
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, nothing wrong with a 12v pump in the bottom end kit at all. I remember asking about radiators. What car is it for? it isn't for a car. Well, what is it for? a computer what the ****? uhh yeah, I'm watercooling it thats damned wierd man anyway, can I get a rad? umm no, we sell car rad's only, not computer radiators but a car radiator will do fine no..

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