Black Ice vs. Cooling Cube

[d5k]

Real quick, I have to make a decision =)

Black Ice or Danger Den's Cooling Cube? I see pros and cons of both, but is the Black Ice worth the price or the Cooling Cube worth the bulkiness?

And, I plan to place the radiator on the bottom front, but instead of just putting a 120mm fan on the front of the case w/ it, I was thinking of placing two 120mm fans on each side of the case and ducting the air, through the radiator (since, I hear, it's better if the fans aren't directly on the radiator).

Any/All suggestions welcome! Thanks!!

-John

[GuyBFF]

If you can fit a D-Tek Cooler Core (at $42.00 with 1/2" fittings) it will likely cool better than both (it's the same as the Big Momma, but cheaper and 1/2").

Secondly, I'd get the Black Ice, much easier to mount than the standard heater core style, and not much difference really in cooling performance (however only availably in 3/8", you'd need to convert yourself for best performance).

Thirdly the BE Cooling Cube. Effectively made of the same AC core stock as Danger Den, but more tubes / fins (I believe 20 pass). Also the flow has been split amongst two paths to better flow threw the unit, and will accept 1/2" or 3/8" hose (it's actually 7/16", right in between)

Lastly the Danger Den Unit. Not much different than the BE unit, however smaller (could be a plus in a small case). Only suited for 3/8" hose unless you want to do extensive brazing to mount a header like the BE units. Also due to the single flow threw I think 15 passes, the unit kills flow rate in a system.

[Flash]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone actually compared these untis side-by-side (HINT!!]. You'd think that with all of the o'clocker sites out there someone could make this happen. I attribute the lack of credible information to a vast right-wing conspiracy.

[GuyBFF]

Your right, it feels like a lifetime I've been waiting for Joe's review. Every day I read all of his comments hoping for just a hint of what's coming.

Personally I've owned both a heater core (Exactly the same as the Big Momma or D-Tek), and a AC core (20 pass like the BE cooling).

I started with the AC core and it tromped my flow rate (as the tubes are only 3/8"), so later I modified it with copper pipe to make it like the BE unit with 2 flow paths. This really increased the observed flow, but only gained me a couple degrees on average.

Then I switched to a heater core from a '87 Chevette as a couple others where raving about them and my temps stayed the same, but the flow was MUCH faster. I figured this was due to the fact that I just placed the 120mm-4" fan directly on the 6"x6" surface and hot fluid could just bypass.

Constructing a crude paper shroud and moving the fan forwards again dropped about 3-4 degrees, but I'm not happy with the way it's mounted and am looking for a more solid metal (probably tin) option.

The truth is each rad has advanages and disadvantages (and will cool better) in different situations. The Black Ice already has a shroud / mount for a fan built in, so does the BE and Danger Den. So they are the easiest to set-up. The Black Ice is expensive and only will gain a couple degrees over a BE cooling with the same fan and mount position (which really is the sam as the Danger Den other than flow loss). Id' be more concerned with what will fit best, look best, be quitest and not be in the way daily. As for cooling, there all good choices and in my opinion with the right fan and shroud if necessary will be within a couple degrees of each other if all the components are designed to work with them.

[sunblade]

The BlackIce would be perfect for me because it's just the right size, and can get rid of enough heat to carry pretty much any Athlon you can throw at it (without pelts). My only gripe is the price. The thing is so expensive! All I can see is that it's a custom design, and is imported. Is there any chance that it will drop in price?

[d5k]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I just read about the D-Tek radiator, and it looks mighty promising, especially with 1/2" tubing. Kind of bulky though. =) About my idea of ducting the radiator, what do you guys think? Here's a crude drawing:

Looking from the front of the computer:

>> []X[] >>

[] = 120 mm fans
X = radiator
>> = airflow

obviously, I would have to create a duct. What do you guys think about the idea?

[GuyBFF]

One good fan should work well, probably won't require two, but hey, it's not going to hurt.

The D-Tek does cool better than the Black-Ice (with a correctly shrouded fan), and as long as your ok with making up your own way of mounting it, it's my favorite.

I used to call the Black Ice expensive, then I realized that it's just a small heater core also, then they add all the shrouding. This has to cost something as this stuff does take time to put on. I'd just rather do it myself (even if this just means cardboard and tape). It is a quality piece however.

Plus if you mount the fan about an inch away, it will get more even flow threw the rad, with it mounted so close a computer fan won't blow threw the corners or center.

[sunblade]

It's too bad there isn't a rad that's like the BigMamma or Dtek CoolerCore, but is about the size of the BlackIce. I agree, I can put the shroud and fan on myself. In other words, a 6x5x1 heatercore would be great.

[GuyBFF]

The smallest common heater core is the Chevy Chevette which has a 6x6 core, and is about 6x7 with tanks. I assume this is the unit which makes the Big Momma and D-Tek.

Only other choices are units with top mount lines (rather than front facing) or some of the rarer units like a Suzuki Tracker. These have a 5x5 core so probably about 5x6 once done, but I'm not sure if there aluminum or copper.

I think the Black Ice really is constructed from scratch as a look at the junk-yard in there books doesn't show anything looking anywhere near it. I just wish it was thicker (instead of thick tanks, and a thin core which increase velocity of the water, and decrease availably cooling area), and had a shroud that mounted the fan a little further off. But I assume there battling the tranny coolers and not the seroius DIY rads.

[TNT2bluz]

GuyBFF, worry not. Your inputs have not fallen on deaf ears.

We have a 2 row unit coming up, 1/2" fittings, tweaked internal flowrate, tweaked fin pitch for maximized airflow and some other applied suggestions. Currently dubbed the Black Ice Xtreme.

[WaterPog]

What is the target cost on this bad boy?

[redleader]

Kind of bulky though. =)

Yeah I guess you could say that

[GuyBFF]

TNT2Bluz, what about taking a cheap heater core (like the one you used in the Big Momma), just adding the fittings and a metal shroud / mount frame rather than reinventing the rad. Your products are well made (arguably the best made for computers), yet it's the price that kills them.

I saw you mentioned a two core unit, do you believe that segregating the water into two cores will increase cooling? Wouldn't the core further from the air source cool worse. With an overall result of lowering cooling? I guess you could say the first core would cool better, but isn't a free circulation likely better, or is this only way you can achieve the thickness (which overall is better) in your custom units?

[ItsSoLARGE]

hey..... where can I get taht DTek?

[TNT2bluz]

Hiya gents.

First off the Big Momma's OCWC's idea there are cars somewhere that use those. Hardware Labs is a distinct company from OCWC, but we do have a close technical and business relationship. Moreover OCWC's the only place we'd vouch for to mod our rads according to the customer's needs.

Secondly it will likely not fit in any case with a default 120mm fan without some modifications on the case or the rad itself. The Black Ice often requires no mods at all.

Prices will go down soon, this I promise you guys once we get volumes up and logistics costs down.

As for the Xtreme, prices are still pending we are looking for ways to lessen the tooling costs. The 2 row design will increase the thermal capacity of the unit, and the two-pass design will be able to take advantage of the internal volume of the rad. We are also tweaking the fin pitch to optimize airflow as well.

The Black Ice II is slated for the end of the month. So if anyone is indeed a serious case modder, this is your rad.

Costs to be announced, but it will be remarkably not as expensive as you'd think.

Sorry about the costings guys, this was a rad developed from scratch. But as long as you're happy we'll keep making our stuff better.

Cheers.

[GuyBFF]

Highvoltagepc, basically yeah the D-Tek is the same core as the OCWC Big Momma, modded with 1/2" fittings and optionally (although usually) spraid silver at only $42.00. That's $8.00 cheaper than a 3/8" Big Momma version!

[EX2C]

hi TNT!yeah like ive never used a radiator yet that didnt require some type of mod to make it work!,my case is so cut up and modded out,im surprised it can still stand up!hehe,ive been using an Hx08 that has a seperate top piece that comes off,its 2 inches high and is open the full depth of the case,i can fit any radiator in there,well upto 8"wide by 11"long ,so ill take the black ice 2 anyday!looking forward to it for sure!!email anytime,oh and the black ice is better than the cooling cube by about 4 or 5 degrees at around 1560 mhz
plus its smaller by a mile,i took down my review cause nobody liked my result's,but i know the truth! hahaha oh and what is this 'dtek' people are so smitten with do they carry the "OCWC BIGMOMMA"with a bunch of silver spray paint on it, or what?

Sounds Like someone is doing a little booty smootchin for a deal. Need more money for plastic clamps?

[TNT2bluz]

Originally posted by EX2C:
Sounds Like someone is doing a little booty smootchin for a deal. Need more money for plastic clamps?

LOL We do have our critics, but it is nice to know hardwork has made some people happy.

Cheers.

[EX2C]

You Have done some good, don't get me wrong, Just slamming other companies who also probably invested just as much time, and made just as many people happy is not an on the level business practice.

[sunblade]

Hey TNT2bluz, looking at the OCWC site, it says that the new BlackIce 2200BTU (heatercore style) is coming soon. Will it have 1/2" fittings on it? The BigMamma is a little big for me, and I think the extra inch off the width and height will help me a lot. And I can't wait until the prices come down! That's been the main thing holding me back.

[EX2C]

my clamps are "lexan" you dipshit,not plastic,and at 15 bucks each i think the price is high enough,and if i want to say something about dtek and how close there radiator is to the OCWC BIGMOMMA i will..WHats the problem with that im sure everybody has noticed some simularity's..
oh ..OR is dtek your buddy ,im sorry maybe its your company i dunno,sounds like i hit a nerve or something,Don't ya just love freedom of speech!or are you in russia-
bye bye for you now..

OHHH...Namecalling now. Na they aren't buddies, nor do I own the company, but they did help me alot when I bought my first kit. You on the otherhand need to brush up on your business skills (or growup) whichever comes first. You are not near the expert you think you are. Now its back to Russia

[Joe]

all my feelings about this post summed up all right there.. pick which ever one you think is for you.

[redleader]

I got it from www.dtekcustoms.com Service was great and I talked to them for a few. Definately recommend them. No offense to overclock-watercool (they make great stuff and I will be ordering from them in the future) but I tried for a week to get the right email/price to PayPal the money for the modded BigMama. Finally I just went with the DTek and 2 days later I had it for $12 less and with a nice paint job.

TNT: I have no doubt that the BlackIce is the best all round, but until you can ramp production and cut costs it was just too expensive for me. Also lack of 1/2 inch fittings was sort of a dissapointment. Its very easy to fit a 1/2 inch part into a 3/8 system, but you can't really go the other way, at least not optimally.

[TNT2bluz]

3/8" fittings are for the sake of compatitibility. Adding 1/2" fittings will do little if any on the performance bar unless the internal volume of the unit is increased as well.

More people use 3/8" fittings.

The units can easily be retrofitted with 1/2" fittings. Revision 1 will have some neat changes.

[TNT2bluz]

Just thought you fellas would like to see what we do on the side when we do find the time: