Is this decent performance? If not, why?

Lmandrake · 01-10-2002, 01:13 AM

Running a 1.2 gig tbird at 1.4 with a core voltage of 1.92 volts. My watercooling setup consists of a Danner 350, a 6 x 8 inch 86 mustang heater core, and 6 inch comair-rotron AC fan. I have tried two different waterblocks. One is homemade copper and the other is the Innovatek InnovaCool. Coolant is distilled water with 2 ozs Watter Wetter per gallon. Using rat shack white thermal compound. With homemade block, all tubing is 1/2. Due to design of Innovatek waterblock, I have to use converters and 5/16 ID tubing with that.

My idle temps at a room temp of 76 degree are 35 C with either block. Performance under Prime 95 is better with the Innovatek, but peak temps are still as high as 40 C. (Based on socket thermistor)

I have done my best to be sure there is no air in the system.

I have placed the temp probe of a rat shack digital indoor outdoor thermometer in the plumbing near where the water exits the waterblock and my water temps are never more than 3 degrees F above the ambient room temp.

Is this performance OK? I think not.

I am also baffled as to why the innovatek block is not kicking my homemade block's butt. It has a big serrated copper slug inside it, a real smooth finish on the bottom and, aside from the small fittings for the tubing connectors, looks like it should kick some a**.

I do have more right angle fittings than I would like, but can't do much about this.

If anybody has any insights, I would love to hear them.

[dannzig] · 01-10-2002, 03:56 AM

trie to get rid of as many of the angles as you possibly can. the are flowkillers of the 1st degree. trie to change the fans ... use a shroud on the radiator, that gives a bit more performance.

as for the temps they aren´t that bad actually... you have quite a heatload....

im running middle/high 20s fulload with my duron800@1000, 1.92v with a SIMPLE crossdrilled block and just ordinary tap water with a drop of dishwashing liquid in it.

deeznuts · 01-10-2002, 05:04 AM

i think most of the people running athlons are hitting the upper 30's lower 40's. i hit around 44c under load (prime95) with a 1.0@1.65 and 2.20 vcore. this is with eheim 1250 and a leviathan sized core and two 120mm fans. at first i was kinda pissed, but i realized i was comparing myself to people with XPs, which run cooler. it got me a nice 65% overclock, so how can i complain? oh yeah, the wb is maze2.

question, can't the innovatek be used with 1/2" ID hose? i asked this question of someon else, and they said on the German site, it says it can be adapted to use any hose size, just need new fittings of some sort. does it look that way to you?

Lmandrake · 01-10-2002, 06:55 AM

I am using a shroud. Airflow through my heater core is NOT my problem. In fact, I have tried many different fans and fan combinations over the years and my conclusion is that a single 120 mm is all you need. I would also counsel anyone not to go with a huge AC fan like I have. I thought that with a variable speed control, which I have, the 6 inch fan could be quiet when running at low RPMs. It is not. I produces quite a hum from the induction of the motor at low rpms. At higher RPMs the airflow noise through the heater core is terrific. Turning it up to "suck the cat across the room" speed does not lower temperatures.

The innovatek uses really trick threaded fittings with O-rings that seal at the junction between the top of the fitting and the top of the block. They are not tapered like NPT and appear to me to be 12mm metric. NOT a standard hardware store item, although I think I have seen some 12mm fuel line fittings in auto parts stores. The hole in the block is slightly less than 1/2 and I suppose a quick and dirty solution can be achieved with K+S brass tubing of the right diameter from a hobby shop and some plumbers goop.

BTW, I got slightly better performance with a mix of tap water and pink non-toxic antifreeze for RV water systems (to prevent pet kills). Anybody know if watter wetter is toxic?

[dannzig] · 01-10-2002, 10:49 AM

water wetter is probably not very healty to drink or get into the body in some other way.....

Butcher · 01-10-2002, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lmandrake
BTW, I got slightly better performance with a mix of tap water and pink non-toxic antifreeze for RV water systems (to prevent pet kills). Anybody know if watter wetter is toxic?

Yes it is toxic.

Brad · 01-10-2002, 04:54 PM

is the side of your block warm? if so then you are transferring heat to your block, but not to the water. Either your water flow is too low, or your waterblocks have little surface area.

if the side of your block is quite cool, then it means you aren't getting heat into the waterblock, ie your mounting is screwy.

The other option is that your block is still cool, you have good mounting, flow rate isn't a problem etc, it's just the blocks can't get the heat from the cpu to the copper.

your rad + fan sound fine, you prooved this by changing to a 120mm fan with no differance

Pinkster · 01-11-2002, 07:57 AM

the water temp above ambient shows that your rad is fine. thunderbirds do get really hot, even with decent watercooling products eheim 1250 cyclone 2 and silverstorm 2 radiator www.silverprop.com, i cant overclock my thunderbird 1.4 much in summer or else stability problems on hot days (ive seen room temp as high as 41C!! on a 44C day so its not much of a problem cause its too hot to use comp much anyway) however that water temp seems too low makes me wonder if your block is mounted properly (my water temps r normally about 3 or 4 degrees C above ambient)

Brad · 01-13-2002, 03:32 PM

if your processor temp is quite high, and water temps are low, then it is your mounting or your block, but I think everything is about inline

01-10-2002, 01:13 AM	#1
Lmandrake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: D.C. Posts: 26	Is this decent performance? If not, why? Running a 1.2 gig tbird at 1.4 with a core voltage of 1.92 volts. My watercooling setup consists of a Danner 350, a 6 x 8 inch 86 mustang heater core, and 6 inch comair-rotron AC fan. I have tried two different waterblocks. One is homemade copper and the other is the Innovatek InnovaCool. Coolant is distilled water with 2 ozs Watter Wetter per gallon. Using rat shack white thermal compound. With homemade block, all tubing is 1/2. Due to design of Innovatek waterblock, I have to use converters and 5/16 ID tubing with that. My idle temps at a room temp of 76 degree are 35 C with either block. Performance under Prime 95 is better with the Innovatek, but peak temps are still as high as 40 C. (Based on socket thermistor) I have done my best to be sure there is no air in the system. I have placed the temp probe of a rat shack digital indoor outdoor thermometer in the plumbing near where the water exits the waterblock and my water temps are never more than 3 degrees F above the ambient room temp. Is this performance OK? I think not. I am also baffled as to why the innovatek block is not kicking my homemade block's butt. It has a big serrated copper slug inside it, a real smooth finish on the bottom and, aside from the small fittings for the tubing connectors, looks like it should kick some a**. I do have more right angle fittings than I would like, but can't do much about this. If anybody has any insights, I would love to hear them. __________________ The technology is within the reach of even the smallest nuclear power.

01-10-2002, 03:56 AM	#2
[dannzig] Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 98	trie to get rid of as many of the angles as you possibly can. the are flowkillers of the 1st degree. trie to change the fans ... use a shroud on the radiator, that gives a bit more performance. as for the temps they aren´t that bad actually... you have quite a heatload.... im running middle/high 20s fulload with my duron800@1000, 1.92v with a SIMPLE crossdrilled block and just ordinary tap water with a drop of dishwashing liquid in it. __________________ \|father of ebba - www.ebba.da.ru\| at7max/d700/256/80/ti4200

01-10-2002, 06:55 AM	#4
Lmandrake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: D.C. Posts: 26	I am using a shroud. Airflow through my heater core is NOT my problem. In fact, I have tried many different fans and fan combinations over the years and my conclusion is that a single 120 mm is all you need. I would also counsel anyone not to go with a huge AC fan like I have. I thought that with a variable speed control, which I have, the 6 inch fan could be quiet when running at low RPMs. It is not. I produces quite a hum from the induction of the motor at low rpms. At higher RPMs the airflow noise through the heater core is terrific. Turning it up to "suck the cat across the room" speed does not lower temperatures. The innovatek uses really trick threaded fittings with O-rings that seal at the junction between the top of the fitting and the top of the block. They are not tapered like NPT and appear to me to be 12mm metric. NOT a standard hardware store item, although I think I have seen some 12mm fuel line fittings in auto parts stores. The hole in the block is slightly less than 1/2 and I suppose a quick and dirty solution can be achieved with K+S brass tubing of the right diameter from a hobby shop and some plumbers goop. BTW, I got slightly better performance with a mix of tap water and pink non-toxic antifreeze for RV water systems (to prevent pet kills). Anybody know if watter wetter is toxic? __________________ The technology is within the reach of even the smallest nuclear power. Last edited by Lmandrake; 01-10-2002 at 07:00 AM.

01-10-2002, 10:49 AM	#5
[dannzig] Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 98	water wetter is probably not very healty to drink or get into the body in some other way..... __________________ \|father of ebba - www.ebba.da.ru\| at7max/d700/256/80/ti4200

01-11-2002, 07:57 AM	#8
Pinkster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: adelaide, australia Posts: 61	the water temp above ambient shows that your rad is fine. thunderbirds do get really hot, even with decent watercooling products eheim 1250 cyclone 2 and silverstorm 2 radiator www.silverprop.com, i cant overclock my thunderbird 1.4 much in summer or else stability problems on hot days (ive seen room temp as high as 41C!! on a 44C day so its not much of a problem cause its too hot to use comp much anyway) however that water temp seems too low makes me wonder if your block is mounted properly (my water temps r normally about 3 or 4 degrees C above ambient) __________________ whats a sig?

01-10-2002, 05:04 AM	#3
deeznuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: san diego Posts: 142	i think most of the people running athlons are hitting the upper 30's lower 40's. i hit around 44c under load (prime95) with a 1.0@1.65 and 2.20 vcore. this is with eheim 1250 and a leviathan sized core and two 120mm fans. at first i was kinda pissed, but i realized i was comparing myself to people with XPs, which run cooler. it got me a nice 65% overclock, so how can i complain? oh yeah, the wb is maze2. question, can't the innovatek be used with 1/2" ID hose? i asked this question of someon else, and they said on the German site, it says it can be adapted to use any hose size, just need new fittings of some sort. does it look that way to you?

01-10-2002, 04:54 PM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	is the side of your block warm? if so then you are transferring heat to your block, but not to the water. Either your water flow is too low, or your waterblocks have little surface area. if the side of your block is quite cool, then it means you aren't getting heat into the waterblock, ie your mounting is screwy. The other option is that your block is still cool, you have good mounting, flow rate isn't a problem etc, it's just the blocks can't get the heat from the cpu to the copper. your rad + fan sound fine, you prooved this by changing to a 120mm fan with no differance

01-13-2002, 03:32 PM	#9
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	if your processor temp is quite high, and water temps are low, then it is your mounting or your block, but I think everything is about inline

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