CHIPPED MY AMD!!! - Anyone recommend shims?

[GuyBFF]

I can't believe it!!!
Yesterday I was watching TV on my ATI TV Wonder when click, the monitor shut off. I checked everything, turns out my ATI Radeon 64 went (I tested it in another computer).

Went to Future Shop (chain electronics store) and they said they'd replace it, I was so happy as I got one of the new ATI Radeons with 5ns RAM and 198mhz clock!!!

So off I went to put it in, just needed to budge the water line a little... boots to CMOS?... Hmmm, oh well reboot. No Reboot!!!

Finally took chip off and just a tiny, tiny piece chipped of corner. Would a shim have prevented this, or would it still chip anyways (I heard there junk).

Since I watercool maybe it's not a bad idea with the hoses leveraging the water block????

Anyone else use a shim or chip a CPU??? or come close??? I've installed dozens of AMD's and I though I was better than this

[H2gO Flasher]

I would if I was u - cheap insurance
try the new non-conductive shims that are now available on the market.
If nothing else they should add support for your water block.

I'm using a copper shim - can't say there's any thermal advantage gained.

[redleader]

Man that really sucks. I hope you weren't using a Maze2, mines already ordered and thats one more thing I don't want to worry about.

[GuyBFF]

Ya, it's a maze 2 with 1/2" fittings.

Where the outlet barb is the plastic nut needs to be pushed sideways a bit to get the nut on and threaded down.

I've practiced mounting it a dozen times now (on my new training chip), and haven't re-chipped it. Just be careful that when you push the nut over, the block doesn't catch on one of the nuts threads (you'll see what I mean).

Good Luck, and be extra careful with that one nut!!!

[Musashi]

The new news article on the Procooling home page sums up my thoughts on shims...

[GuyBFF]

Anyone else like or dislike shims??? I always though they where garbage, but now with the busted core, and the fact that I can see the block move with any touch of the hoses (even with springs almost bottomed), I'm wondering before my next CPU.

Will the shim protect from movement once the water block is properly mounted??? (Say I bump a hose, or a hose is just trying to leverage the block up on edge)???

[krp]

Sorry to hear of the chip death - especially from another MAZE2 user!

I have one of the nonconductive (mica) shims in place under my MAZE2, and the block doesn't seem to move at all with the springs only partially compressed, but the shim probably has very little to do with keeping the block steady, because the four rubber pads are much thicker than the shim. Did your CPU still have the four rubber pads on it? Seems like they play a big part in stabilizing the waterblock and keeping it from rocking any.


I also have a 3/8 thick neoprene ring around the socket for condensation prevention, which gets compressed slightly by the block, that may also help prevent rocking.


Another consideration may be the stiffness of the water hoses, I read that you are using 1/2-inch I.D. tubing, I am only using 3/8ths I.D., and chose very soft tubing: Mcmaster part#: 5554K17 - Tygon Laboratory PVC clear 3/8 tubing. The soft tubing may be more likely to simply bend instead of leveraging the block, while larger diameter, or stiffer tubing may put more force on the block when the tubing is moved??

Don't need a "hard" hose when watercooling...

[GuyBFF]

I think the tubing had a lot to do with the problems.

On further inspection I'd have to come to the conclusion that the chip on the CPU probabley DIDN'T ruin it. It looks like it burnt. It really wasn't running that fast, but I think the hoses where holding the waterblock off the CPU.

I removed my motherboard and experimented with how much force is required to leverage the block up on an edge, and it's not much (even with springs nearly bottomed!)!.

Matbe I need to look into some new tubing. The braded PVC is pretty springy. It bends easy, but keeps a decent spring to it.

I might also attempt to make some bends in it be tie strapping, heat, etc. not sure.

Thanks for all the help, but as an update, the darkened warranty sticker on the bottom says probably burnt (and normally ran at 35-40C, so shouldn't have happened)

[Joe]

just FYI if you would have used a shim, and the block was not sitting flat you would have smoked your chip as the shim would have helped the block loose contact with the core.

Nice eh? always wanted a lil fire in yer case.

Shims are worthless.

[krp]

That 1/2-inch braided tubing is probably stiff and springy enough to lever the waterblock off the core and rock it whenever you need to move the tubing... but do you really need the braid?? - that's mainly for reinforcing tubing under higher pressure like carbonated beverage tank hookups etc.

With anything less than an insane pump, you would be unlikely to develop more than 10-15 psi with watercooling, (higher pressures would only serve to make the pump work harder and heat the water more.)

Suggest using something much softer and more flexible, durometer Shore-A 55 or less, like:

McMaster 5554K18 Tygon PVC 1/2inch ID
or
McMaster 51135K41 Silicon 1/2inch ID

The Tygon PVC is clear, the silicon is translucent, either would do the job though.
McMaster's "laboratory grade" is usually the softer, more flexible tubing selections.

[GuyBFF]

I definetly want to change the tubing. I'm sure of this now! The only reason I went braided PVC is it was the only choice other that thinwall clear vinyl at the home depot (and the vinyl could easily be kinked). I figured I was safer with PVC . What do you think of the silicon and the tygon you list? I know silicon is flexible, I've never heard of tygon, but are they decently kink (and collapse) resistant? This is the last chip I want to loose

Thanks for everybody's input

[krp]

Everything in life is a tradeoff, tubing with thicker walls gives more kink resistance, but also more stiffness and liklihood of levering your waterblock.

To avoid kinks with thinner-wall tubing, be careful to ensure that your hose routing doesn't involve any tight-radius turns, or if you must make a sharp turn, use an elbow fitting there.

McMaster-Carr is a source of supply for just about anything you can imagine, including the kitchen sink, and every imaginable plumbing or tubing fitting under the sun. They list MANY different species of plastic and rubber tubing, PVC, silicon, you name it, with a variety of characteristics, wall thicknesses, hardness, etc. All sold by the foot or in large coils.

I can only speak for the Tygon PVC that I am using: McMaster part#: 5554K17 - which is 3/8 ID, 1/8 wall thickness, 5/8 OD, durometer Shore-A-55 (soft), seems quite kink-resistant due to the thick walls, but still reasonably soft and flexible and doesn't seem to lever the block any. One point in favor of the Tygon PVC, is that it appears to be as "stretchy" as silicone and can be made to fit onto barbs at least the next larger ID size if needed, (McMaster refers to stretchiness as "elongation".)

For your larger-bore 1/2-inch system, if you went with the clear Tygon PVC you'd need to choose between one of two available wall thicknesses, either 1/16th or 1/8th, I suspect the thinner-wall 1/16th would be a bit more likely to kink if you attempted to make too tight-radius turns with it, but it would also be the most flexible and least likely to twist your waterblock off the core.

McMaster part#: 5554K18 is Tygon PVC 1/2inch ID, 1/16th wall, 5/8th OD.

McMaster part#: 5554K19 is Tygon PVC 1/2inch ID, 1/8th wall, 3/4 OD, this is probably quite a bit stiffer though.

Dangerden appears to be selling silcone rubber tubing (at an outrageous price per foot though!)

McMaster lists 1/2inch ID silicone tubing in three available wall thicknesses:

McMaster part# 51135K41 - 1/2inch ID, 1/16 wall, 5/8 OD - this is thinner and more flexible, but needs more attention to routing to avoid kinks.

McMaster part# 51135K42 - 1/2inch ID, 3/32 wall, 11/16 OD.

McMaster part# 51135K43 - 1/2inc ID, 1/8 wall, 3/4 OD - this is the thickest, least likely to kink, but considerably stiffer as a result.

Check out McMaster's website and see what you think...

[GuyBFF]

Thanks, I looked at there site and the Tygon and the Silicon both look very inticing. The silicon in 1/8" wall 1/2" ID 3/4" OD is actually more in partial rolls than Danger Den (for the translucent). So I may order from DD again (although it takes two weeks to get the products ).

I'm going to start a new thread and see what people have had luck with (although the Tygon and Silicon sound really good compared to vinyl or braided PVC).

Thanks Again!