common that review wasnt the worst.... for the space 2002

cristoff · 04-22-2002, 09:34 AM

hehehe.... j/k it was bad... but he had no review on the cooling aspect of it... just the product itself... unforunately... if its cheaper than most I would buy it....and fix it and mod it...

pHaestus · 04-22-2002, 09:54 AM

Dunno Una seemed particularly pissy about that review on o/cers. Looked reasonably well done to me (die simulator temps and AMD internal diode temps). The only part they mentioned would leak was the res if you turned it upside down, but cooling flow never said it was sealed. Looks like a pretty average performer and a typical o/cers (above average for other hardware sites) review, all things told.

cristoff · 04-22-2002, 10:21 AM

yeah thats what I though... just dont know why he was so teed off.... hhmmm..... particularly since he was like... that the worst review... of the worst watercooling setup... hehe....

WillysNut · 04-22-2002, 02:01 PM

As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, I think Unaclocker needs to set the record straight...or come buy and visit the forums a little more...at OC.com and ProCooling...and voice his opinion as to why this product is so awful and what his beef with Joe is?

First of all...when a new product comes out, Joe C takes a general, overall look at the product, and gives it a "GENERAL" review. The good and the bad. Comments and Considerations. If it leaked, then Joe would have mentioned it. As Joe mentioned, in response to Unas statements,

"I concluded "I think the Space2000 Watercooling Kit has some rough edges that can be fixed fairly easily, either by the manufacturer or users." My feeling is our readers are intelligent enough to arrive at an opinion based on the facts, so that's "What's up with that."

Maybe Procooling tested an earlier version of this product? Maybe they didn't test it at all? Maybe all of the info is "word-of-mouth"?? I still can't find a review of this product on your site. Maybe ProCooling members rely too much on the founders of the site to make their purchasing decisions for them?

In no way, is Overclockers.com attempting to be the end-all be-all watercooling site, but apparently a few people think that Pro Cooling is. I searched for info that backed up Una's statement about this being the worst review of the worst product but I'm left to continually search instead of the author providing any legitmate fact to back up his claims.

Help me figure this out?

Brad · 04-22-2002, 02:11 PM

I thought it was very bad because that is the sort of kit some newbie is going to buy, and they mightn't test for leaks.

I read the review before I read Una's news post, and I honestly thought it was quite a poor kit. Not only leak issues, but the block looked like shit on the inside, the rad is small, etc.

I'm backing Una here, not because he's pro/staff, heck me and him don't get on half the time, I'm backing him because I think he's right.

WillysNut · 04-22-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I thought it was very bad because that is the sort of kit some newbie is going to buy, and they mightn't test for leaks.

I read the review before I read Una's news post, and I honestly thought it was quite a poor kit. Not only leak issues, but the block looked like shit on the inside, the rad is small, etc.

I'm backing Una here, not because he's pro/staff, heck me and him don't get on half the time, I'm backing him because I think he's right.

Where is his review of the product? Where are Una's numbers? Where is all this info about the system leaking? Newbie or not, wouldn't you test a watercooling system before you install components? Would you even buy a watercooling system before learning the in's and out's and methods of successfull watercooling implementation?

WebMasta33 · 04-22-2002, 02:23 PM

I thought the review was done fairly well. I don't understand what the big deal is.

I thought the testing was done well, and the temps posted were respectable, espically for the size of the system.

Yeah, so the rad is small and the pump is itty bitty... A job as a reviewer is to rate the product for what it is, and how it performs at the job it was designed to do... You can't compare it to a massive DDen system, because they're different.

It's like trying to say a Kia Accent sucks compared to a BMW z3 because the Kia doesn't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

They're designed for a different consumer... It's not like this setup was using a OCH pump or crap like that.

Brad · 04-22-2002, 02:24 PM

una doesn't need to do a review, he just read that one at oc'ers, and found out it was shit. Just like 99% of the audience would think

Joe · 04-22-2002, 02:49 PM

Guys,

I am sorry for una's post. Normally Una keeps his strong opinions to himself or in private emails. I am disturbed that he used his news posting rights to vent on my front page.

I have removed his coments and emails Joe/Ed to explain that what Una did was NOT procooling's stance on anything posted on OC'rs.

Regardless of how bad the review was or how bad of a product was, Una should have just not linked to it if he didnt like it.

I dont have and and really never have had any angst against OC'rs at all, and dont like to see a writer of the site signle handedly try to make it look like I and ProCooling do.

Thanks to someone calling me on my cell today at work today I am able to rectify the situation asap, I would not have seen the post till tonight otherwise. I guess I gotta start moderating all the news posts....

Bignuts · 04-22-2002, 03:13 PM

Okay, I usually dont get cought up in BS like this, but I am going to have to comment because I have come across a shitload of problem products from all sorts of different vendors lately.

I read that post like most of us, before Una said anything about it.

I dismissed the product as crude and unacceptably unfinished, after reading just a third of the way down the page. I dont know how many people want to buy a water block with a leak in it from a retailer, but i'm not one of them.

I was very surprised that not much was made of this leak, with this being the gist of it:

"When I received the waterblock, it had a small leak on one side. Cooling Flow sent a tube of the sealer used to mate the top to the bottom, Loctite Gasket Eliminator 518."

and...

"The Loctite can be used to seal these grooves and make the assembly watertight. I applied a layer of Loctite to the base where it contacts the top, screwed it back on and let it sit overnight. After testing for three hours, there were no leaks, so I then proceeded to test."

finally...

"I think the Space2000 Watercooling Kit has some rough edges that can be fixed fairly easily, either by the manufacturer or users."

To me rough edges it a bit of a understatement. That leak could have killed a newbs or a lazy veteran watercoolers mobo! I personally test for leaks in my system, but dammit, there should be zero problems for a $155 USD kit!

I think the technical parts of the review were done excellently, as usual. I just am not used to a review being so dismissive. If this was stated that it was a prototype, thats one thing, but it was not. Hell, I still dont know if it was or not! From the article, I get the feeling that this is supposed to be a production unit, and Case-Mod.com is taking pre-orders already.....

WillysNut: "As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, I think Unaclocker needs to set the record straight...or come buy and visit the forums a little more...at OC.com and ProCooling...and voice his opinion as to why this product is so awful and what his beef with Joe is?"

Actually, if you want anyone to do anything for you you are barking up the wrong tree, but you have made a step in the right direction by posting here and voicing your opinion.
As for "... visit the forums a little more..." WTF? Am I allowed to comment on this with only 9 posts? Or are we both- Pot=black, Kettle=Black?

WillysNut: "If it leaked, then Joe would have mentioned it."

Please read what I have posted above, directly from the article. It leaked.

WillysNut: "Maybe ProCooling members rely too much on the founders of the site to make their purchasing decisions for them?"

WillysNut: "In no way, is Overclockers.com attempting to be the end-all be-all watercooling site, but apparently a few people think that Pro Cooling is."

WillysNut: "As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, ..."

...well there goes that respect theory.

Bignuts · 04-22-2002, 03:27 PM

WebMasta33: "It's like trying to say a Kia Accent sucks compared to a BMW z3 because the Kia doesn't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds."

I bet that neither the new BMW nor the new Kia leak oil on the driveway.......

.....but I know what you mean.

WebMasta33 · 04-22-2002, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bignuts

I bet that neither the new BMW nor the new Kia leak oil on the driveway.......

.....but I know what you mean.

My Mercury Tracer leaks oil

plague · 04-22-2002, 04:29 PM

I am a regular at the overclockers.com forums and saw today that Willy posted about Una's comments. I didn't read what he had to say because it got removed, but i can imagine what it was like.
Joe has enough work to do on the website as it is to write lengthy reviews with different parts written towards newbies and pros. He is known for giving his honest opinion about what he sees in a product.
He did mention the block leaked, but said that he fixed it and had no further problems with it. He doesnt ever go into too much detail for people who are very new to watercooling during a review, as there are other sections on the site for that. other than a few problems he had with the system and easily fixed, he tested it just like he tested all the other HSFs and watercooling kits and noted how it performed.
I hope this can soon be dropped as no one at oc.com wants to start any wars. We just dont like to see people from other sites flaming Joe with nothing to support their claim.

WillysNut · 04-22-2002, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
Guys,

I am sorry for una's post. Normally Una keeps his strong opinions to himself or in private emails. I am disturbed that he used his news posting rights to vent on my front page.

I have removed his coments and emails Joe/Ed to explain that what Una did was NOT procooling's stance on anything posted on OC'rs.

Regardless of how bad the review was or how bad of a product was, Una should have just not linked to it if he didnt like it.

I dont have and and really never have had any angst against OC'rs at all, and dont like to see a writer of the site signle handedly try to make it look like I and ProCooling do.

Thanks to someone calling me on my cell today at work today I am able to rectify the situation asap, I would not have seen the post till tonight otherwise. I guess I gotta start moderating all the news posts....

Thanks for your input and attention to this issue. I think we all want to get along.

Pyrotechnic · 04-22-2002, 04:36 PM

I think that the review itself was OK, but the leaks should have been stressed a bit more. Ya, most of us can seal those leaks up but thats a kit some n00b is gonna buy, and most likely they will not know what they are doing. For that amount of money there shoudn't be any leaks. Like i said the review is fine, BUT i think that the leaks are more than a "rough edge".

WillysNut · 04-22-2002, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bignuts

WillysNut: "Maybe ProCooling members rely too much on the founders of the site to make their purchasing decisions for them?"

WillysNut: "In no way, is Overclockers.com attempting to be the end-all be-all watercooling site, but apparently a few people think that Pro Cooling is."

WillysNut: "As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, ..."

...well there goes that respect theory.

Totaly misunderstanding the point I was trying to make but I'm not about to get into a pi$$ing match with anyone. Thanks for your input! Points and constructive comments well taken!

UnaClocker · 04-22-2002, 05:33 PM

Bignuts covered it perfectly. I consider a leaking waterblock to be a showstopper. There is no excuse for it in my book, and he just continued the review like it happens with every waterblock you buy. Whatever... I never wanted to post the ****ing news in the first place, I've been stuck doing it because Joe here keeps hiring incompetent staff to do the job. You think you can do better? Be my guest, I'm not doing it anymore.

Kevin · 04-22-2002, 06:52 PM

amen, una.
So guys, whichever side you are on, I don't really think it is that big of a deal. Just put the fire out in your pants and don't worry about it. Done. Thread Locked.

View Poll Results: Did that review really suck?
Yeah it did...	7	50.00%
Watercooling... umm... fans baby!!!	1	7.14%
No stinking temps!!!	2	14.29%
Umm.. what was that?	4	28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

04-22-2002, 09:34 AM	#1
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	common that review wasnt the worst.... for the space 2002 hehehe.... j/k it was bad... but he had no review on the cooling aspect of it... just the product itself... unforunately... if its cheaper than most I would buy it....and fix it and mod it... __________________ fr33t3chi3

04-22-2002, 10:21 AM	#3
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	yeah thats what I though... just dont know why he was so teed off.... hhmmm..... particularly since he was like... that the worst review... of the worst watercooling setup... hehe.... __________________ fr33t3chi3

04-22-2002, 02:01 PM	#4
WillysNut Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 4	As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, I think Unaclocker needs to set the record straight...or come buy and visit the forums a little more...at OC.com and ProCooling...and voice his opinion as to why this product is so awful and what his beef with Joe is? First of all...when a new product comes out, Joe C takes a general, overall look at the product, and gives it a "GENERAL" review. The good and the bad. Comments and Considerations. If it leaked, then Joe would have mentioned it. As Joe mentioned, in response to Unas statements, "I concluded "I think the Space2000 Watercooling Kit has some rough edges that can be fixed fairly easily, either by the manufacturer or users." My feeling is our readers are intelligent enough to arrive at an opinion based on the facts, so that's "What's up with that." Maybe Procooling tested an earlier version of this product? Maybe they didn't test it at all? Maybe all of the info is "word-of-mouth"?? I still can't find a review of this product on your site. Maybe ProCooling members rely too much on the founders of the site to make their purchasing decisions for them? In no way, is Overclockers.com attempting to be the end-all be-all watercooling site, but apparently a few people think that Pro Cooling is. I searched for info that backed up Una's statement about this being the worst review of the worst product but I'm left to continually search instead of the author providing any legitmate fact to back up his claims. Help me figure this out? Last edited by WillysNut; 04-22-2002 at 02:12 PM.

04-22-2002, 02:11 PM	#5
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I thought it was very bad because that is the sort of kit some newbie is going to buy, and they mightn't test for leaks. I read the review before I read Una's news post, and I honestly thought it was quite a poor kit. Not only leak issues, but the block looked like shit on the inside, the rad is small, etc. I'm backing Una here, not because he's pro/staff, heck me and him don't get on half the time, I'm backing him because I think he's right. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-22-2002, 09:54 AM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Dunno Una seemed particularly pissy about that review on o/cers. Looked reasonably well done to me (die simulator temps and AMD internal diode temps). The only part they mentioned would leak was the res if you turned it upside down, but cooling flow never said it was sealed. Looks like a pretty average performer and a typical o/cers (above average for other hardware sites) review, all things told.

04-22-2002, 02:23 PM	#7
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	I thought the review was done fairly well. I don't understand what the big deal is. I thought the testing was done well, and the temps posted were respectable, espically for the size of the system. Yeah, so the rad is small and the pump is itty bitty... A job as a reviewer is to rate the product for what it is, and how it performs at the job it was designed to do... You can't compare it to a massive DDen system, because they're different. It's like trying to say a Kia Accent sucks compared to a BMW z3 because the Kia doesn't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds. They're designed for a different consumer... It's not like this setup was using a OCH pump or crap like that. __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 =========== Last edited by WebMasta33; 04-22-2002 at 02:36 PM.

04-22-2002, 02:24 PM	#8
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	una doesn't need to do a review, he just read that one at oc'ers, and found out it was shit. Just like 99% of the audience would think __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

04-22-2002, 02:49 PM	#9
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Guys, I am sorry for una's post. Normally Una keeps his strong opinions to himself or in private emails. I am disturbed that he used his news posting rights to vent on my front page. I have removed his coments and emails Joe/Ed to explain that what Una did was NOT procooling's stance on anything posted on OC'rs. Regardless of how bad the review was or how bad of a product was, Una should have just not linked to it if he didnt like it. I dont have and and really never have had any angst against OC'rs at all, and dont like to see a writer of the site signle handedly try to make it look like I and ProCooling do. Thanks to someone calling me on my cell today at work today I am able to rectify the situation asap, I would not have seen the post till tonight otherwise. I guess I gotta start moderating all the news posts.... __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

04-22-2002, 03:13 PM	#10
Bignuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 155	More BS into the fire Okay, I usually dont get cought up in BS like this, but I am going to have to comment because I have come across a shitload of problem products from all sorts of different vendors lately. I read that post like most of us, before Una said anything about it. I dismissed the product as crude and unacceptably unfinished, after reading just a third of the way down the page. I dont know how many people want to buy a water block with a leak in it from a retailer, but i'm not one of them. I was very surprised that not much was made of this leak, with this being the gist of it: "When I received the waterblock, it had a small leak on one side. Cooling Flow sent a tube of the sealer used to mate the top to the bottom, Loctite Gasket Eliminator 518." and... "The Loctite can be used to seal these grooves and make the assembly watertight. I applied a layer of Loctite to the base where it contacts the top, screwed it back on and let it sit overnight. After testing for three hours, there were no leaks, so I then proceeded to test." finally... "I think the Space2000 Watercooling Kit has some rough edges that can be fixed fairly easily, either by the manufacturer or users." To me rough edges it a bit of a understatement. That leak could have killed a newbs or a lazy veteran watercoolers mobo! I personally test for leaks in my system, but dammit, there should be zero problems for a $155 USD kit! I think the technical parts of the review were done excellently, as usual. I just am not used to a review being so dismissive. If this was stated that it was a prototype, thats one thing, but it was not. Hell, I still dont know if it was or not! From the article, I get the feeling that this is supposed to be a production unit, and Case-Mod.com is taking pre-orders already..... WillysNut: "As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, I think Unaclocker needs to set the record straight...or come buy and visit the forums a little more...at OC.com and ProCooling...and voice his opinion as to why this product is so awful and what his beef with Joe is?" Actually, if you want anyone to do anything for you you are barking up the wrong tree, but you have made a step in the right direction by posting here and voicing your opinion. As for "... visit the forums a little more..." WTF? Am I allowed to comment on this with only 9 posts? Or are we both- Pot=black, Kettle=Black? WillysNut: "If it leaked, then Joe would have mentioned it." Please read what I have posted above, directly from the article. It leaked. WillysNut: "Maybe ProCooling members rely too much on the founders of the site to make their purchasing decisions for them?" WillysNut: "In no way, is Overclockers.com attempting to be the end-all be-all watercooling site, but apparently a few people think that Pro Cooling is." WillysNut: "As a senior member of Overclockers.com Forums and a person who tries to respect everyone in general, ..." ...well there goes that respect theory. Last edited by Bignuts; 04-22-2002 at 03:24 PM.

04-22-2002, 03:27 PM	#11
Bignuts Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 155	Couldn't resist.... WebMasta33: "It's like trying to say a Kia Accent sucks compared to a BMW z3 because the Kia doesn't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds." I bet that neither the new BMW nor the new Kia leak oil on the driveway....... .....but I know what you mean.

04-22-2002, 04:29 PM	#13
plague Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 1	I am a regular at the overclockers.com forums and saw today that Willy posted about Una's comments. I didn't read what he had to say because it got removed, but i can imagine what it was like. Joe has enough work to do on the website as it is to write lengthy reviews with different parts written towards newbies and pros. He is known for giving his honest opinion about what he sees in a product. He did mention the block leaked, but said that he fixed it and had no further problems with it. He doesnt ever go into too much detail for people who are very new to watercooling during a review, as there are other sections on the site for that. other than a few problems he had with the system and easily fixed, he tested it just like he tested all the other HSFs and watercooling kits and noted how it performed. I hope this can soon be dropped as no one at oc.com wants to start any wars. We just dont like to see people from other sites flaming Joe with nothing to support their claim.

04-22-2002, 04:36 PM	#15
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	I think that the review itself was OK, but the leaks should have been stressed a bit more. Ya, most of us can seal those leaks up but thats a kit some n00b is gonna buy, and most likely they will not know what they are doing. For that amount of money there shoudn't be any leaks. Like i said the review is fine, BUT i think that the leaks are more than a "rough edge".

04-22-2002, 05:33 PM	#17
UnaClocker Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 514	Bignuts covered it perfectly. I consider a leaking waterblock to be a showstopper. There is no excuse for it in my book, and he just continued the review like it happens with every waterblock you buy. Whatever... I never wanted to post the ****ing news in the first place, I've been stuck doing it because Joe here keeps hiring incompetent staff to do the job. You think you can do better? Be my guest, I'm not doing it anymore. __________________ The UnaClocker Watercooler Extraordinaire! Overclock till it goes BOOM!

04-22-2002, 06:52 PM	#18
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	amen, una. So guys, whichever side you are on, I don't really think it is that big of a deal. Just put the fire out in your pants and don't worry about it. Done. Thread Locked. __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

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