Regarding pH's article on pump wiring...

Bollocks · 05-05-2002, 07:12 AM

Would it be possible to build a device that will sound an alarm if the relay doesnt engage?

I was wondering, after having pH comment on the fact that the relay makes things more complex, but could you wire in an alarm that will sound if there is a voltage on either the 5V or 12V lines and none on the 110/240V pump line?

That would be something that would be nice and handy, and could even be wired in to kill the system if the relay fails?

Just a thought.....and might have been covered somewhere else, but i thought i might throw it out there

pHaestus · 05-05-2002, 08:29 AM

IT was pointed out to me in e-mail that using a solid state relay (no mechanical parts) would be simpler and probably more reliable than the relays that I wired up. If you are using a relay then you might want to start there.

As far as setting off alarms goes; if you can power an LED then you can do other things as well. I would think you could get an alarm that runs on 12VDC and use a relay that is NC and activated by 110VAC (from the relay of the pump). Plug the alarm into the PSU's 12V, and if the relay controlling the pump doesn't supply 110 to the pump side then the alarm would sound.

Might be simpler to just skip the alarm and tap into the PWR_GOOD line from the ATX connector? If the relay doesn't work then you wouldn't be able to power up the system.

Jim · 05-05-2002, 09:21 AM

You could also get a relay with both N/O and N/C contacts. Connect the 12 vdc alarm to the N/C contact. So if you power up the system and the relay doesn't switch the alarm sounds.
It will probably sound for a moment as you power up.

BUT, the most reliable way is to attach to the 120 volt (load) side contacts and place an alarm on it. But, you need to step down to 12 volts since a 120 volt alarm is not common and would be like a dock bell at the warehouse!

To simplify matters get MBM and the program called "Shutdown". Set you MBM alarm 8c – 10c higher than you highest load temps and it will sound an ALARM and then Shutdown Now will shut your machine down. This covers you for all overheating causes. Probably cost less than a relay and an alarm too.

I took my relay/pump thingy out of my machine and run the pump 24/7 easier on the Eheim.
IMHO
Jim

Marco · 05-10-2002, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
Might be simpler to just skip the alarm and tap into the PWR_GOOD line from the ATX connector? If the relay doesn't work then you wouldn't be able to power up the system.

How does PWR_GOOD work? I've always started PSUs by jumpering PWR_ON to a ground wire, never needed to do anything to PWR_GOOD. Is it something the motherboard uses to check?

Haddy · 05-11-2002, 12:13 AM

i know theres a couple programs out there thatll shut ur system down if temps get to high....theres ur alarm (i think mbm5 has that in there somewhere)

Cyco-Dude · 05-11-2002, 12:52 AM

yes, you can configure MBM to sound an alarm after a certain temp. its already proven useful to me once

(note to self: plug CPU fan in BEFOR playing games lol)

gmat · 05-11-2002, 07:38 AM

If you wire the relay on the PSU 12V, it will switch on only when you switch on the whole comp.
A by-pass switch comes in handy for those water bleeding/refilling times... Also you can have your pump turned on 24/24 when using the comp daily, for pump stress purposes.

Jim · 05-11-2002, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gmat
If you wire the relay on the PSU 12V, it will switch on only when you switch on the whole comp.
A by-pass switch comes in handy for those water bleeding/refilling times... Also you can have your pump turned on 24/24 when using the comp daily, for pump stress purposes.

That by-pass switch definetly would be handy. I had a relay setup on mine and I really kicked myself when I forgot to install a bypass for the very reason you mentioned gmat.

Since took out the relay, don't want to cycle the pump on and off.
Jim

Cyco-Dude · 05-11-2002, 06:30 PM

Swiftech uses a similar relay system on their watercooled kits (you can buy this from Cooltechnica for $18, or from Swiftech for $17.25). if you click on product info, then watercooled kits, then on the installation guide for their "H202 LIQUID COOLING KITS - Dual fan series", it'll show how to set it up. it might help if you want to build one yourself...

Volenti · 05-11-2002, 08:26 PM

Quote:

IT was pointed out to me in e-mail that using a solid state relay (no mechanical parts) would be simpler and probably more reliable than the relays that I wired up. If you are using a relay then you might want to start there.

I'd assume that a solid state relay would be using transistors of some sort, as far as I'm aware transistors can't be directly used to switch alternating current.(mains supply)

All I could suggest would be to use the highest quality mechinical relay you can afford, and add some small ceramic (disk) capacitors across the relay contacts to reduce switching noise and arcing.

Jim · 05-11-2002, 09:08 PM

DodgeViper was selling some solid state relays which would work perfectly for this application. Not sure if he has any left.

Maybe do a search for him and send him a "PM" to see if any available, he had a bunch.
Jim

Volenti · 05-11-2002, 09:34 PM

Hmm, after further reasearch it seem that these do switch AC, well you learn something new every day

Jim · 05-12-2002, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volenti
Hmm, after further reasearch it seem that these do switch AC, well you learn something new every day

Yeah, they do, I didn't catch that on your previous post.
Jim

bigben2k · 05-13-2002, 08:23 AM

Yes, solid-state relays can switch AC.

Bollocks: if you really need that kind of alarm, then your setup is wrong. Trust the relay, or use a solid-state one, then wire up a LED to let you know that the pump gets AC.

The real problem is when there is no flow, because your pump could still be getting AC, but still be fried, so what you do is put a flow sensor: that way, you're looking out for the actual problem situation.

A flow sensor will tell you if:
-a leak occured and the system is out of coolant
-the pump has stopped working
-the system is obstructed

If you think about it, your system will always run fine, as long as any coolant is flowing.

Jim · 05-13-2002, 10:31 AM

Still seems the best safety net is MBM checking for CPU ultra high temps and Shutdown Now to turn off the puter when danger arises.
IMHO
Jim

05-05-2002, 07:12 AM	#1
Bollocks Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 54	Regarding pH's article on pump wiring... Would it be possible to build a device that will sound an alarm if the relay doesnt engage? I was wondering, after having pH comment on the fact that the relay makes things more complex, but could you wire in an alarm that will sound if there is a voltage on either the 5V or 12V lines and none on the 110/240V pump line? That would be something that would be nice and handy, and could even be wired in to kill the system if the relay fails? Just a thought.....and might have been covered somewhere else, but i thought i might throw it out there __________________ Bollocks -------------- Celeron 466@525 stable Plans for H20 setup in HX08

05-13-2002, 08:23 AM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yes, solid-state relays can switch AC. Bollocks: if you really need that kind of alarm, then your setup is wrong. Trust the relay, or use a solid-state one, then wire up a LED to let you know that the pump gets AC. The real problem is when there is no flow, because your pump could still be getting AC, but still be fried, so what you do is put a flow sensor: that way, you're looking out for the actual problem situation. A flow sensor will tell you if: -a leak occured and the system is out of coolant -the pump has stopped working -the system is obstructed If you think about it, your system will always run fine, as long as any coolant is flowing. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-05-2002, 08:29 AM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	IT was pointed out to me in e-mail that using a solid state relay (no mechanical parts) would be simpler and probably more reliable than the relays that I wired up. If you are using a relay then you might want to start there. As far as setting off alarms goes; if you can power an LED then you can do other things as well. I would think you could get an alarm that runs on 12VDC and use a relay that is NC and activated by 110VAC (from the relay of the pump). Plug the alarm into the PSU's 12V, and if the relay controlling the pump doesn't supply 110 to the pump side then the alarm would sound. Might be simpler to just skip the alarm and tap into the PWR_GOOD line from the ATX connector? If the relay doesn't work then you wouldn't be able to power up the system.

05-05-2002, 09:21 AM	#3
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	You could also get a relay with both N/O and N/C contacts. Connect the 12 vdc alarm to the N/C contact. So if you power up the system and the relay doesn't switch the alarm sounds. It will probably sound for a moment as you power up. BUT, the most reliable way is to attach to the 120 volt (load) side contacts and place an alarm on it. But, you need to step down to 12 volts since a 120 volt alarm is not common and would be like a dock bell at the warehouse! To simplify matters get MBM and the program called "Shutdown". Set you MBM alarm 8c – 10c higher than you highest load temps and it will sound an ALARM and then Shutdown Now will shut your machine down. This covers you for all overheating causes. Probably cost less than a relay and an alarm too. I took my relay/pump thingy out of my machine and run the pump 24/7 easier on the Eheim. IMHO Jim

05-11-2002, 12:13 AM	#5
Haddy Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 434	i know theres a couple programs out there thatll shut ur system down if temps get to high....theres ur alarm (i think mbm5 has that in there somewhere)

05-11-2002, 12:52 AM	#6
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	yes, you can configure MBM to sound an alarm after a certain temp. its already proven useful to me once (note to self: plug CPU fan in BEFOR playing games lol)

05-11-2002, 07:38 AM	#7
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	If you wire the relay on the PSU 12V, it will switch on only when you switch on the whole comp. A by-pass switch comes in handy for those water bleeding/refilling times... Also you can have your pump turned on 24/24 when using the comp daily, for pump stress purposes.

05-11-2002, 06:30 PM	#9
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	Swiftech uses a similar relay system on their watercooled kits (you can buy this from Cooltechnica for $18, or from Swiftech for $17.25). if you click on product info, then watercooled kits, then on the installation guide for their "H202 LIQUID COOLING KITS - Dual fan series", it'll show how to set it up. it might help if you want to build one yourself...

05-11-2002, 09:08 PM	#11
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	DodgeViper was selling some solid state relays which would work perfectly for this application. Not sure if he has any left. Maybe do a search for him and send him a "PM" to see if any available, he had a bunch. Jim

05-11-2002, 09:34 PM	#12
Volenti Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: in a nice cool spot Posts: 427	Hmm, after further reasearch it seem that these do switch AC, well you learn something new every day

05-13-2002, 10:31 AM	#15
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Still seems the best safety net is MBM checking for CPU ultra high temps and Shutdown Now to turn off the puter when danger arises. IMHO Jim

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