Common Tips for Watercooling

[Quickmcj]

Hey....

This is my first tread, in this really cool forum

I have read alot about watercooling, I have finaly orderer my watercooling system. I know how to install the system, but i miss the Tips, that could make my system perform a little better. I know by now, that distilled water with a little Watter wetter should be the "best" mix etc. but have some of your experienced waterboys any tips to share with me ?

I WILL use silicone hoses, Eheim 1252, Custom Res and some waterblocks that u for sure dont know

An a little question....how do I get the Air out of my system ? Is the res enough to catch the air ?

Hope you will answer

[Quickmcj]

Man that is an ugly drawing....lol!

[dcrainman]

your problem with air is that you have the radiator as the highest point, you need to place an airtrap or a similar solution at a higher point than the rad

check out the way WebMasta33 did it:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3534

[Quickmcj]

Thanks for reply

anything else ?

[bigben2k]

You're basically asking us to only comment on your drawing...

Other than the crudeness... if you insist on using a res that is not at the top of your loop, then make sure that it is sealed, and I mean damn sure! Otherwise, if you have a leak anywhere, the coolant will spill into your case.

Otherwise, you'd get rid of the air by allowing it to escape the res. If there's no air outlet, that's ok, it'll just build up pressure in the loop.

[jtroutma]

Exactly what dcrainman already stated.

Your radiator being at the top of the case will then become your "air trap" and you will loose a lot of effeciency with your cooling setup. It is best to have a res. of some sort or even a fill tube be the highest point of the system.

IF you are stuck and cant move the radiator anywhere else, then at least put some sort of water containter just before your radiator to collect the air that will be in your system.

Remember, air will want to sit at the highest point in the system and air in your radiator is bad for your temps.

One idea is to move your radiator down to almost in front of your pump and make the water travel up above the CPU block into a small tank then go to your CPU. That would work MUCH better.

[Quickmcj]

Shit......I REALLY have to place that radiator OVER res. I only have an medi Chieftec, and by doing it this way i only have to cut en 120mm hole. I can place an airtrap just before the Radiator, but has the reservoir still to be sealed TOTALLY ? I have seen people with there res, same place as mine without it sealed. This is what i want =)

[Quickmcj]

But if I seal the res. and the water will overflow it, when I take the refill hood of, then a refill wont be possible at the res.!!! ARG!! So I MUST place the res. at higest point, or seal the res. and have an air trap right ?

Never thougt there would be that much trouble!.

But hey....see the koolance system...they have it "my way" with rad. high and res. low....WITHOUT AIRTRAP! ... How ?

http://koolance.com/products/pc2-c/

[Aridmoose]

I still no nothing about watercooling, i havne't gotten my stuff yet. but what res is that? I like the looks of it and i don't like making my own stuff because i suck at it...

[Cyco-Dude]

it doesnt matter where you put the res / airtrap, it will still do its job. as far as air settling in the rad @ the top of the case, you can just fill the system with the rad loose and turn the rad around to make sure the air comes out. or you can do it like swiftech instructs: fill the system then lay it on its side for awhile. i think it'll be fine. and yeah that res looks cool

[Brad]

what waterblocks are you using, I'm just asking because of the two outlets you've drawn in the pic.


as far as the air and rad thing goes, just fill the system and bleed it with the radiator down the bottom just free standing. then just lift up the rad and mount it at the top. This automatically means all your air is out and you can throw your radiator just about anywhere

[Quickmcj]

REALLY thanks for the replies

OK, then i can "do my little trick" but i am wondering: If I lay the Rad. down so the air goes out into the hoses, will the pump be enough to squise the air all the way to the res. ?

I still no nothing about watercooling, i havne't gotten my stuff yet. but what res is that? I like the looks of it and i don't like making my own stuff because i suck at it...

The res. = Resservoir Not every body uses it, they "just" have the pump without res.

My waterblocks is VERY efficient

I dont think that the manufactur will send them international, it is a Danish manufactor. The CPU waterblock should outperform the innovatek rev. 3 The Graphic card cooler is just a "regular" cooler to GF4 with the core AND all ram cooled. I will use the max. supported by my pump eheim 1252(That would be the hose size on the outlet side).

It is also a Danish made Rad if I remember correct. This is a little better than regular Black ice, but is not as good as the Extreme model. But remember that my rad. costs the half of what Extreme costs

If I have no "air problem now" what about the res. placement ? I know some of you says that if I place it in the buttom it HAS to be sealed......but.

I really mean that som has done it this way before, and uses the res that stands in the buttom, as airtrap....will this work ?

Again, thanks for the replies

And here is the site where I am buying from...it is in danish. At the picture on the frontpage is a kit....that is not mine. There is no pic. of the CPU block I want....not yet. It is called Highlander. It could be fun to let Joe test it.

http://www.waterheads.dk

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Quickmcj
But if I seal the res. and the water will overflow it, when I take the refill hood of, then a refill wont be possible at the res.!!! ARG!! So I MUST place the res. at higest point, or seal the res. and have an air trap right ?

Never thougt there would be that much trouble!.

But hey....see the koolance system...they have it "my way" with rad. high and res. low....WITHOUT AIRTRAP! ... How ?

http://koolance.com/products/pc2-c/

If you seal the res, then you are making sure that if there is a leak (now or in the future), that the coolant will not overflow in your case.

Regardless, the res will behave the same way, no matter where it is.

If you're cramped for space, go for the T-fitting air trap: lots of people use it successfully.

[Quickmcj]

Well......i have an airtrap ordered. But if i seal the res. wont there be an big presure, when the water is heatet ???

And how will I be able to refill the system, if the water overflows the case, right as I take the refill cap of, so that there will be no presure in the res. ?

I will place the T airtrap right before the Rad.

here is the CV2 waterblock. It is a little famous in DK, but not international. This is not the waterblock i have ordered.

http://www.watercooling.dk/shop/productinfo.asp?id=151

[dcrainman]

The problem with not sealing the res is that once the pump stops gravity will pull all the water out of your system and overflow your res... You could probably overcome this with checkvalves but now you're getting complicated

Without a sealed system you will need to remove the air every time you start it up, thats the beauty of an airtrap

[Quickmcj]

MAN I CONFUSED!

Well.....just ha to see what is going to happen lol =)

I will now seal the res. but still place it at the buttom. I have an checkvalve also

[Cova]

First - I would recommend that you always keep your system completly sealed. I don't think we have enough volume of liquid, or temp difference in the liquid, to worry about it expanding and contracting that much. Even if it does expand a bit, your tubing will likely just stretch a wee bit, and being under pressure isn't going to hurt your system.

Two simple solutions to your filling problem:

1. Leave the pump running. Of course, if everything is sealed you can shut the pump off, no water can get out, no air can get in, and you can move the system around. With the pump running it should be safe to open the res at the bottom without a flood. The pump will be pumping water out of the res just as fast as water comes back into it - no floods.

2. Attach a piece of hose to the fill-point of your res and run the tube straight up to the top of the case, and put a cap on it there. You should be able to open the top of the tube whenever you want without having to worry too much. Though if there is too much volume/mass of water in the rad it may want to push water all the way up the tube anyways. To be double-sure no water will come up the tube - leave the pump on (yes, I'm back to point 1 again).

[dcrainman]

Just looking at your pump, its a cool looking res but could you run that pump inline? doing so would fix your problem

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Quickmcj
MAN I CONFUSED!

Well.....just ha to see what is going to happen lol =)

I will now seal the res. but still place it at the buttom. I have an checkvalve also

I know why!

The problem is that you don't seem to get the gravity effect. In your pic, you have the res inlets spraying water in the res, which means that you are not running a closed loop system. if you extended the inlets so that they would fall under the waterline, then you would have a closed loop system.

If your loop is not closed, then the coolant will drain into the tank (i.e. air will be sucked up one of the inlets), until it either overflows, or becomes a closed loop again. (All of this while your pump is off, of course).

The gravity effect (while pump is off) would pull the coolant down one end of the loop, but it is compensated for by the other side of the loop, so nothing moves (in theory). Unfortunately, both sides aren't equal.

In a closed loop, the water coming down drags water up on the other side, which comes from the res (it can go either way). So as long as the loop is closed, then there's no problem.

If you have a leak however... say your rad hose comes loose for example, air will be sucked in the loop, and the coolant will drop from both sides into the res, and overflow.

This can be avoided by setting the res on top. That way, your res can be open or closed, it doesn't matter. Open, it allows for the expansion of the coolant. If you have a leak, then the spill should be minimal, because you tightened your clamps REAL tight, right?

[Quickmcj]

You mean without an res. ?

But I have been thougt that every good watercooling system has an res. Therefore I seeked to build one fast. But do i need the res. ?

Also it would look VERY cool with blue coolant streaming down in the plexi res.

I could build the "pipe res." as many does in this forum, but there isnt very much water in these res. and the pump isnt in water then.....hulk....

OK, Cova....u say that if I let the pump run it will be possible to refill the res. without water porring in my case......ok thanks for that one...that will come in handy

[Quickmcj]

OK bigben

That was a very good explanation. Thanks

OK my plan.

I WILL seal the res. as good as I can with silicone in all the sides.

I WILL let all hoses go below waterline, so that the system is closed, and thereby wont be able to overflow, only if there is a leak.

I WILL have an airtrap at the rad. or res. an make it reach higher than the rad.

But wont the res. work as airtrap ? I know it is not the higest point but, wont the water press all the air out of the system and down to the res where i can let it out ?

Man u are very nice.....every body......THANKS

[Quickmcj]

Question.

If i use an "T" airtrap sould i place it just before or just after the rad. ?

it doesnt matter where you put the res / airtrap, it will still do its job. as far as air settling in the rad @ the top of the case, you can just fill the system with the rad loose and turn the rad around to make sure the air comes out. or you can do it like swiftech instructs: fill the system then lay it on its side for awhile. i think it'll be fine. and yeah that res looks cool

Is that true ?

[bigben2k]

The res will work as an airtrap, and that's ok.

It doesn't matter where you put the other airtrap, as long as it's the top point.

You can have 2 airtraps, that's fine.

There's a lot of talk about where an airtrap should be, and why it should be on top. Everyone has a theory...

I think that it needs to be on top to collect the air when the pump is turned off, because when the flow stops, the air goes up. Even if you don't ever turn it off, you'll have to at some point, to refill or drain it. You will also encounter power failures, like we all do. (Now wouldn't it be a beyatch if you had to prime the system for every power failure?).

Theoretically, the air gets flushed out of everything once the pump is on, but that's not always the case (Swiftech WB are a good example, the small res on the rads are one too).

So have an airtrap on top, and then you can do whatever you want with the pump: leave it on or turn it off.

With a little T&T (Tool and Time), you can drill a hole on top of your case, and let the air trap come out there. It will also act as a refill point.

[Cova]

The problem is that you don't seem to get the gravity effect. In your pic, you have the res inlets spraying water in the res, which means that you are not running a closed loop system. if you extended the inlets so that they would fall under the waterline, then you would have a closed loop system.

Uhh..., having air in a system isn't what determines if it's a closed loop or not. Whether the system is sealed or not is what determines if it is closed-loop. So long as his res is sealed shut it is a closed-loop, just potentially one that still has air in it.

As for where to put an air trap - it doesn't always have to be the highest point in the system. (hmm..., I'm gonna get flamed for this I think...) Air will not flow down in order to get around an obstacle in the system to find the highest point. If there is a bulge at the top of your res that is higher than the ends of any of the inlets/outlets then it will collect air just as well as anywhere else. And pump going or not the air will stay in there unless the system is tipped on it's side or something, such that the air rises to a different point. I wouldn't worry about putting a second air-trap before the rad - just make sure to bleed the air out of the system as much as you can (by moving the rad/cpu block around while the pump is running before they are mounted - keep getting air bubbles into the res and topping up the res) Then close the fill-hole so the system is sealed shut with very little, if any, air in it. The tiny bubbles that are left will flow around the system with the water, and will rise up out of the flow in the spot where the flow-rate is low enough - this should be in your res where the water comes to almost a complete stop - the tiny bubbles will get a chance to float to the top.

As shown in bad pic below - if all of your hoses come in to the rad far enough down to be submerged, then even with the pump off no air will enter any of the hoses - no re-priming the system, no air in the rad, etc. And because the flow-speed in the rad when the water moves from the inlets to the pump inlet will be VERY slow, it will allow even the smallest of air-bubbles in the water time to float to the surface, and get trapped along with the rest of the air. Also in the pic there is that large empty thing on the right - this is your "fill cap". As I mentioned in an earlier post if you attach a hose here and run it up, and do NOT have any length of barb sticking down into the res (the stuff in red is what you do NOT want - it will trap an air bubble in the top of the res) then you can fill the res right up with water, and fill that tube up a ways as well. If the top of that tube is high enough and has more mass in water than the rest of the system that is above the res (so the block and rad and their tubing all combined) then the water will not flow up that tube if the top is removed and the pump is not running. Whether you have that tube or not though - you should try and keep as little air as possible in the top of the res, and for the first month after you put it together watch the water level closely - as the smaller air bubbles slowly accumulate the water-level will drop. If it drops below the ends of the inlet tubes and the pump is shut off, air will go up the inlet tubes as water comes down through the pump and then you will have problems (need to re-bleed the air out again). So make the inlet tubes go quite far down, and keep the water-level topped up.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Cova


Uhh..., having air in a system isn't what determines if it's a closed loop or not. Whether the system is sealed or not is what determines if it is closed-loop. So long as his res is sealed shut it is a closed-loop, just potentially one that still has air in it.

As for where to put an air trap - it doesn't always have to be the highest point in the system. (hmm..., I'm gonna get flamed for this I think...) Air will not flow down in order to get around an obstacle in the system to find the highest point. If there is a bulge at the top of your res that is higher than the ends of any of the inlets/outlets then it will collect air just as well as anywhere else. And pump going or not the air will stay in there unless the system is tipped on it's side or something, such that the air rises to a different point. I wouldn't worry about putting a second air-trap before the rad - just make sure to bleed the air out of the system as much as you can (by moving the rad/cpu block around while the pump is running before they are mounted - keep getting air bubbles into the res and topping up the res) Then close the fill-hole so the system is sealed shut with very little, if any, air in it. The tiny bubbles that are left will flow around the system with the water, and will rise up out of the flow in the spot where the flow-rate is low enough - this should be in your res where the water comes to almost a complete stop - the tiny bubbles will get a chance to float to the top.

As shown in bad pic below - if all of your hoses come in to the rad far enough down to be submerged, then even with the pump off no air will enter any of the hoses - no re-priming the system, no air in the rad, etc. And because the flow-speed in the rad when the water moves from the inlets to the pump inlet will be VERY slow, it will allow even the smallest of air-bubbles in the water time to float to the surface, and get trapped along with the rest of the air. Also in the pic there is that large empty thing on the right - this is your "fill cap". As I mentioned in an earlier post if you attach a hose here and run it up, and do NOT have any length of barb sticking down into the res (the stuff in red is what you do NOT want - it will trap an air bubble in the top of the res) then you can fill the res right up with water, and fill that tube up a ways as well. If the top of that tube is high enough and has more mass in water than the rest of the system that is above the res (so the block and rad and their tubing all combined) then the water will not flow up that tube if the top is removed and the pump is not running. Whether you have that tube or not though - you should try and keep as little air as possible in the top of the res, and for the first month after you put it together watch the water level closely - as the smaller air bubbles slowly accumulate the water-level will drop. If it drops below the ends of the inlet tubes and the pump is shut off, air will go up the inlet tubes as water comes down through the pump and then you will have problems (need to re-bleed the air out again). So make the inlet tubes go quite far down, and keep the water-level topped up.

Let the flaming begin!!!

You're right, as long as that res is sealed, it would be considered a closed loop. However, if the inlets extend in the water, and the res is open, it is still a closed loop (I think you got that!)

You're also right about the airtrap not necessarily working at its best on top: as I explained, the Swiftech block (as an example) will hold air, if any is left in it: I used the term "prime" improperly before, I meant that you'd have to do the whole tilting thing.

The inlets don't need to extend down very far, in the situation where the res is open, because the system becomes a closed loop again, once the water line goes up (as a result of air being sucked up the tubes) and reaches the inlets again. It would cycle over and over, sucking air then water. The noise would be a warning on its own, to refill.

it seems to me that that bottom res, if it's going to be sealed, might as well be full of water.

I hate cutting holes unneccesarily. I think that if you could drop the rad an inch, you'd have room for a res without cutting anything.

Alternatively, Cova's idea of extending the bottom res opening all the way up, would work very well. You could just leave a tube that runs up the case. No holes, just take the cover off to reach the tube for a refill. No extra airtrap, and leave that tube half filled. You'd have to tilt the res to let the air go up that tube though...