Position of RAD and fans

awesterink · 07-03-2002, 10:30 PM

Ping! First post. Several folks at amdmb.com suggested that you guys know your stuff around here. Could I pick your brains for a minute?

I am a sucker for quiet, and eventhough I have all fans in my case running at 7V, I think I can do better - quiter AND cooler - with watercooling (had a first generation Koolance before).

I use a Chenbro Junior case (awesome) which has a nice 120mm intake and 120mm exhaust. My case sits inside a cabinet with good intake, but poor exhaust air flow.

The position of the CPU on the Gigabyte 7VRXP mobo is very close to the back of the case right smack in the middle of the exhaust area. Nice for air cooling, but hard to fit a 120mm fan with RAD AND leave room for the height of a nice waterblock, such as the Innovacool.

So here are my questions:
1. Any recommendations for the position of the RAD? There is no room in the top of my case. Should I mount it in the typical exhaust position in the back, or can I also pick the front of the case?

2. If I pick the front of the case, I'd be inclined to let the fan blow OUT, so the hot air does not build up in my case. It would be nice if that could be the only fan in my case (besides PSU). Or would I need a fan in the back blowing IN to offset negative pressure?

Thx..

webmedic · 07-03-2002, 11:07 PM

Welll it's real hard to fit watercooling into those smaller cases. There's really not enough room.

Having said this all I can say is that within a month or so I should have somthing to show that will change the way people think about water cooling. It should make it verry easy for people like you to mount water cooling gear whithout loosing spase in your case. I think the only thing that will be lost will be the top 5 1/4 bay other than that it shouls be a great help to you.

Wait and see I think it will be worth it.

Cyco-Dude · 07-04-2002, 02:04 AM

so theres only 1 rear 120mm exhaust or is there 2? you could mount the rad (maybe a BI Pro) on the outside of the case. the lower front would also be good. id have the fan sucking in, so it pulls cool air thru the rad from the outside. yes, it'll bring warm air into the case, but it shouldnt be a problem with good exhaust (that 120mm exhaust should work fine along with the PSU fan, and maybe a slot fan).

how many fans do you have now?? what fans are they? 120mm panflo's are damn near silent on 7 volts...

gmat · 07-04-2002, 02:44 AM

+1 on what cyco-dude said.
If you've got a convenient exhaust let the front fan pull air *in* the case, through the rad.
If you have no exhaust, let it pull air *out* of the case, and make sure there's some kind of hole to make up for an intake.
If you want *more* silence there are ways to go (fanless or watercoooled PSU, HD blocks + silencers, GPU block , NB block and so on). If you really want to go this way tell us, i have plenty of bookmarks about this

Hallis · 07-04-2002, 03:46 AM

+1 on Cyco also. good idea, (this being the fan on the back of the case i am assuming) you could even mount a BI Xtreme on the outside of the 120mm space.. and likewisw the fan on the outside,, this would give enough case clearence to that the barbs on the BI face inward so you can drill 2 holes on your case and run the tubes right in instead of having to try to curve them around. you can mount a pump-res in many different spaces so that wouldnt be a problem. and most blocks you get will be roughly the same height, like DangerDen, D-tek, and Swiftech. if you put the rad on the outside then space even in a mini-tower isnt a concern.

bigben2k · 07-04-2002, 09:14 AM

+1.

If space is a concern, I'd consider mounting the rad externally. Since your PC is enclosed, it won't be an eyesore. Maybe something like a BI2.

I like big rads...

awesterink · 07-04-2002, 10:35 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

The cabinet that the computer sits in is part of a built-in desk unit. In the back of the cabinet there is no opening to the back (wall) or top (except for cables), but an opening of about 5 inches wide and 16 inches high to the left. It vents out to below the desk, where your feet go :-) Not a whole lot of air circulation.

I thought about mounting the fan externally, but since I only have about 5 inches of clearance from the back of the PC to the wall, I wasn't sure that would leave enough room for the air to find its way out to the left. Maybe I should mount a duct on the back exhaust.

Anyway, I think I will get the BIE2, and just try a few different options:
1. BIE in front, sucking in, no exhaust fan
2. BIE in front, sucking in, with exhaust fan
3. BIE in front, blowing out
4. BIE in back, blowing out (fan external), no intake
5. BIE in back, blowing out (fan external), with intake

Come to think of it, option 3 does indeed not seem that good. With or without intake fan on the back opening, it would only suck in warm air from the PSU.

I'd prefer to stick with just the fan on the BIE (Panaflo running at 7V) to keep noise to an absolute minimum. But that will probably drive up my case temp too much.

BTW, the NB on my 7VRXP has a passive HS. I'll just stick to that. I will also put a block on my GPU. After that I need to find a way to quiet down that whirl of the Western Digital 1000BB :-)

Thanks!

Arjen

Nordic · 07-07-2002, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by awesterink
... After that I need to find a way to quiet down that whirl of the Western Digital 1000BB :-)

Try mounting the disk isolated from the chassi using rubber or some other means. Really helps getting rid of seek noises but I've found that the noise of the motor itself will be considerably less annoying this way.
Perhaps you already knew all this and I'm barking up the wrong tree..

awesterink · 07-07-2002, 12:28 PM

Good suggestion. I have tried using grommets once, but the Chenbro case is quite sturdy and simply doesn't leave enough room to squeeze in grommets.

gmat · 07-07-2002, 05:41 PM

There are quite a few ways ti quiet down a HD.
1 - suspensors. Mount your HD in crossed elastic rubbers, themselves attached to the 5.1/4" bay. There are pre-made suspensors kits around, ask me if you want URLs. (have them at work, not here at home). This is by far the most efficient (surprisingly enough), but avoid this method on hot HDs.
2 - twin plate sandwich. You need 2 alu plates, 2 plates of sound dampening material. Make a big sandwich of all this (with the HD in the middle). Add heatsinks (profiled alu rails will do) on HD sides to prevent overheating.
3 - sandwich AND watercooling. No overhating problem. Need a HD block (D-Tek, Innovatek, aquacomputer, even koolance !), sound dampening material, good ideas for mounting and a solid wallet. Overall the best method.

In any case forget the idea of adding a fan for cooling it, the fan will make more noise than the HD and ruin your silencing efforts...

awesterink · 07-07-2002, 08:57 PM

Don't have a 5 1/4" drive bay left for the suspension option (nice idea though!), but I should be able to make a water cooled sandwich in the 3.5" bay. Thanks!

Most of the noise of my drive is the whirling platters though (I think). Next to the sandwich mount, I may also opt to replace the drive by a Seagate Barracuda 120. I can put that WD1000BB in my Netgear network drive. It makes as much noise as a DC-9, so the WD will be a drop in the bucket :-)

07-03-2002, 10:30 PM	#1
awesterink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 53	Position of RAD and fans Ping! First post. Several folks at amdmb.com suggested that you guys know your stuff around here. Could I pick your brains for a minute? I am a sucker for quiet, and eventhough I have all fans in my case running at 7V, I think I can do better - quiter AND cooler - with watercooling (had a first generation Koolance before). I use a Chenbro Junior case (awesome) which has a nice 120mm intake and 120mm exhaust. My case sits inside a cabinet with good intake, but poor exhaust air flow. The position of the CPU on the Gigabyte 7VRXP mobo is very close to the back of the case right smack in the middle of the exhaust area. Nice for air cooling, but hard to fit a 120mm fan with RAD AND leave room for the height of a nice waterblock, such as the Innovacool. So here are my questions: 1. Any recommendations for the position of the RAD? There is no room in the top of my case. Should I mount it in the typical exhaust position in the back, or can I also pick the front of the case? 2. If I pick the front of the case, I'd be inclined to let the fan blow OUT, so the hot air does not build up in my case. It would be nice if that could be the only fan in my case (besides PSU). Or would I need a fan in the back blowing IN to offset negative pressure? Thx.. __________________ Asus A7N8XD - BIOS 1002 T-Bred 2600+ 2x256MB Samsung PC2700 120GB Seagate Barracuda V on SATA1 Pioneer DVR-105 on IDE1 ZIP250 on IDE2 Abit GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB - Det 41.09 Chenbro Junior SR-20503 PC Power & Cooling Silencer 400 ATX Windows XP Home

07-03-2002, 11:07 PM	#2
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Welll it's real hard to fit watercooling into those smaller cases. There's really not enough room. Having said this all I can say is that within a month or so I should have somthing to show that will change the way people think about water cooling. It should make it verry easy for people like you to mount water cooling gear whithout loosing spase in your case. I think the only thing that will be lost will be the top 5 1/4 bay other than that it shouls be a great help to you. Wait and see I think it will be worth it. __________________ www.water-cool.com

07-04-2002, 09:14 AM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	+1. If space is a concern, I'd consider mounting the rad externally. Since your PC is enclosed, it won't be an eyesore. Maybe something like a BI2. I like big rads... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-04-2002, 10:35 AM	#7
awesterink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 53	Thanks for the replies guys. The cabinet that the computer sits in is part of a built-in desk unit. In the back of the cabinet there is no opening to the back (wall) or top (except for cables), but an opening of about 5 inches wide and 16 inches high to the left. It vents out to below the desk, where your feet go :-) Not a whole lot of air circulation. I thought about mounting the fan externally, but since I only have about 5 inches of clearance from the back of the PC to the wall, I wasn't sure that would leave enough room for the air to find its way out to the left. Maybe I should mount a duct on the back exhaust. Anyway, I think I will get the BIE2, and just try a few different options: 1. BIE in front, sucking in, no exhaust fan 2. BIE in front, sucking in, with exhaust fan 3. BIE in front, blowing out 4. BIE in back, blowing out (fan external), no intake 5. BIE in back, blowing out (fan external), with intake Come to think of it, option 3 does indeed not seem that good. With or without intake fan on the back opening, it would only suck in warm air from the PSU. I'd prefer to stick with just the fan on the BIE (Panaflo running at 7V) to keep noise to an absolute minimum. But that will probably drive up my case temp too much. BTW, the NB on my 7VRXP has a passive HS. I'll just stick to that. I will also put a block on my GPU. After that I need to find a way to quiet down that whirl of the Western Digital 1000BB :-) Thanks! Arjen Last edited by awesterink; 07-04-2002 at 10:52 AM.

07-07-2002, 08:57 PM	#11
awesterink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 53	Don't have a 5 1/4" drive bay left for the suspension option (nice idea though!), but I should be able to make a water cooled sandwich in the 3.5" bay. Thanks! Most of the noise of my drive is the whirling platters though (I think). Next to the sandwich mount, I may also opt to replace the drive by a Seagate Barracuda 120. I can put that WD1000BB in my Netgear network drive. It makes as much noise as a DC-9, so the WD will be a drop in the bucket :-) Last edited by awesterink; 07-07-2002 at 09:02 PM.

07-04-2002, 02:04 AM	#3
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	so theres only 1 rear 120mm exhaust or is there 2? you could mount the rad (maybe a BI Pro) on the outside of the case. the lower front would also be good. id have the fan sucking in, so it pulls cool air thru the rad from the outside. yes, it'll bring warm air into the case, but it shouldnt be a problem with good exhaust (that 120mm exhaust should work fine along with the PSU fan, and maybe a slot fan). how many fans do you have now?? what fans are they? 120mm panflo's are damn near silent on 7 volts...

07-04-2002, 02:44 AM	#4
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	+1 on what cyco-dude said. If you've got a convenient exhaust let the front fan pull air in the case, through the rad. If you have no exhaust, let it pull air out of the case, and make sure there's some kind of hole to make up for an intake. If you want more silence there are ways to go (fanless or watercoooled PSU, HD blocks + silencers, GPU block , NB block and so on). If you really want to go this way tell us, i have plenty of bookmarks about this

07-04-2002, 03:46 AM	#5
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	+1 on Cyco also. good idea, (this being the fan on the back of the case i am assuming) you could even mount a BI Xtreme on the outside of the 120mm space.. and likewisw the fan on the outside,, this would give enough case clearence to that the barbs on the BI face inward so you can drill 2 holes on your case and run the tubes right in instead of having to try to curve them around. you can mount a pump-res in many different spaces so that wouldnt be a problem. and most blocks you get will be roughly the same height, like DangerDen, D-tek, and Swiftech. if you put the rad on the outside then space even in a mini-tower isnt a concern.

07-07-2002, 12:28 PM	#9
awesterink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 53	Good suggestion. I have tried using grommets once, but the Chenbro case is quite sturdy and simply doesn't leave enough room to squeeze in grommets.

07-07-2002, 05:41 PM	#10
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	There are quite a few ways ti quiet down a HD. 1 - suspensors. Mount your HD in crossed elastic rubbers, themselves attached to the 5.1/4" bay. There are pre-made suspensors kits around, ask me if you want URLs. (have them at work, not here at home). This is by far the most efficient (surprisingly enough), but avoid this method on hot HDs. 2 - twin plate sandwich. You need 2 alu plates, 2 plates of sound dampening material. Make a big sandwich of all this (with the HD in the middle). Add heatsinks (profiled alu rails will do) on HD sides to prevent overheating. 3 - sandwich AND watercooling. No overhating problem. Need a HD block (D-Tek, Innovatek, aquacomputer, even koolance !), sound dampening material, good ideas for mounting and a solid wallet. Overall the best method. In any case forget the idea of adding a fan for cooling it, the fan will make more noise than the HD and ruin your silencing efforts...

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