Project Update (Pics)

hmale · 07-30-2002, 11:18 AM

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to keep you guys posted on the project I am working on...got about 2 weeks to go before it is completed (finally)!

Cheers!

hmale · 07-30-2002, 11:20 AM

Here are some more pictures of the radiator mounted in the case

Cheers!

bigben2k · 07-30-2002, 11:24 AM

Is the rad blocked (of air flow) on the back?

kibbler · 07-30-2002, 11:39 AM

2 things

1) thats things...big...so incredibly...big...

2) with a radiator that big, you have a heck of a lot more cooling potential than 2 120mm would provide. the way you have it now, i think maybe 2 of the 5 parallel channels are left untouched. Frankly, I'm not even sure how many fans you could use to maximize its potential. A 2x3 120mm array would look really impressive but a little stupid. Up to you, really

BaconGrease · 07-30-2002, 12:19 PM

that is just beautiful

_Mike_ · 07-30-2002, 12:21 PM

Can we get some more information on that radiator?

gmat · 07-30-2002, 12:33 PM

Mike: look at previous threads started by hmale.
Kibbler: i thought one of the goals of watercooling was reducing the fan count...? Anyways his rad is designed for low air flow environments.

Hmale: Mmmhh crystal fans... black bezel units... fine

Fixittt · 07-30-2002, 12:44 PM

that is a very nice, very big peice of work. What size pump, or pumps are you using. There seems to be a small fortune tied up in brass fittings. Is there a reason U went with 90 degree fittings everywhere? Maybe some copper tubing with soft bends in them would help with keeping flow rates up.

Very very nice. The back looks a little odd, 2 small fans, and one huge rad! maybe if it were ducted to the fans, you could help maxamize the rads cooling power. you dont really need more fans, just need even air flow over the whole rad.

Very very nice indeed

Khledar · 07-30-2002, 01:06 PM

I definately see what big ben is asking about, looks as if there is an acrylic sheet behind the radiator. Ques. is, does the radiator allow air flow, is the air flow restricted by the close acrylic sheet, or is there more space than it appears?

ECUPirate · 07-30-2002, 01:28 PM

that thing is beautiful man... could you post the dimensions of that case? just curious.
R U planning to add little LEDs here and there? Those have a nice effect.

I like the way you made the 'shroud' for the rad. ...I think two 120mms will be OK....not optimal, but that rad should be able to dissipate waaay more heat than that system can produce.

How hard will it be to swap drives/cards/mobo? Have you thought about putting the side panels on hinges, and using acrylic "angle iron" in the corners and along the seams for support? It's hard to tell from the pics.

Wayne Harrow · 07-30-2002, 02:10 PM

I think he has that sheet at the back of the rad so the air doesnt get forced straight through but it has to travel to the top or bottem to get out so more of the rad is being cooled.

morphling1 · 07-30-2002, 02:49 PM

Now that's a BIG TOWER

hmale, congrats this is a work of art, beatiful. Did you make all by yourself ?

comlink · 07-30-2002, 03:16 PM

A true tower of power

Nice work!

hmale · 07-30-2002, 04:02 PM

Hello to all that have commented.

I have found the feedback to be both constructive and thought provoking.

Here are some answers to the questions that have come up so far:

-The drives and cards are very easy to swap out. The case is large and allows ample room for work.

-The case has a removable motherboard tray.

-The case's frame is supported by the addition of solid acrylic rods.

-The case's interior measuremenst are 36"X18"X14" (92cmX46cmX36cm).

-The radiator's specs are as follows:
• Originally manufactured as a motor sport “competition cooler coil”
• Designed to cool a 600 HP vehicle
• Provides high BTU transfer with minimal amount of resistance to high volume flow
• Provides maximum cooling in low air flow environments
• Headered style cooler featuring 5/8" copper tubes with turbulators, copper headers and cooling fins
• ½” fittings
• Overall dimensions: 20”x10”x1.5”

Here is a picture of the radiator

I constructed a shroud for the radiator that would encapsulate it. The shroud is designed to mount on the case's back panel.

Here is a picture of the shroud

The radiator is mounted to the back panel of the case and is separated from the panel using 1" clear spacers (refer to the pictures above).

We must bare in mind that air from the fans will flow through the radiator. Even though the radiator is encapsulated by the shroud and back panel of the case it does not exist in a vacuum.

Air from the fans can:
1. Be driven through the radiator if both fans are configured to intake ambient air. This would be a positive air flow environment.
2. Be driven through the radiator if both fans are configured to exhaust air within the encapsulated space. Negative air flow environment.
3. Be driven through a combination of 1 and 2 which would result in a balanced air flow environment.

To test the design's effectiveness (prior to committing to the final product), I constructed a foam core model of the case (smaller version) and shroud. I simulated a load in a water circuit using a 156W TEC. Additionally, I used a heating element to simulate a 4-5 degree temperature differential between the interior of the case and ambient temperature.

I measured water temperature entering and exiting the radiator using the fan configurations mentioned above. As a control mechanism I performed the same measurements without a shroud and both fans blowing ambient air through the radiator.

After repeated testing I was able to measure the following water temperatures exiting the radiator (Given 23.2 degress C ambient and 26.7 degrees case):

1. Without shroud: 28.4 degrees avg.
2. With shroud and 2 fans intaking air: 25.6 degrees avg.
3. With shoud and both fans exhausing air: 24.4 degrees avg.
4. With shroud and one fan as intake and one fan as exhaust: 24.6 degrees avg.

Cheers!

nexxo · 07-30-2002, 04:02 PM

Woot?!?!

Hmmmmmm... nice rig....

Where did you get the brass fittings? Please tell me, please, please, please...

PS thanks for making my project look positively mundane now...

hmale · 07-30-2002, 04:13 PM

Hi Fixx...I am a big fan of your work!

The pump

• Manufactured with noryl housings and impeller, titanium rotor and separating wall, ceramic bearing ball, carbon graphite bearing cap and EPDM o-ring.
• Energy efficient (rated at 1.3 amps) and ultra-quiet (less than 30 db).
• Features “Dry Run Cutout” with thermal switch for added safety.
• Rated for temperatures to 140° F and line pressures to 50 psi
• Back pressure management:
o 1000 GPH @ 0’ head
o 800 GPH @ 3’ head
o 240 GPH @24’ head
• Dimensions: 5”x6”x3.5”

Here is a picture of the pump with its fill and discharge assemply attached

I calculated back flow pressure in feet head for:
1. Distance water must travel through the circuit.
2. Resistance through the circuit given a defined distance.
3. Fittings (number and type)
3. Water blocks (number and type)
4. Radiator header

I concluded based on my calculations and assumptions that flow rates will be approximately 280 to 320 GPH at 20 to 22 feet head.

I am contemplating performing a physical measurement, but I feel relatively comfortable in concluding that the flow rates will suffice with respect to this setup.

Cheers!

bigben2k · 07-30-2002, 04:23 PM

Just for kicks... what's the coolant capacity in the rig? i.e. how much water did you put in there?

hmale · 07-30-2002, 04:28 PM

ECU...yes, I will be adding some case lighting.

Wayne...you grasped the design concept!

Nexxio...I got the fittings from McMaster...I used extruded precision fittings rather than cast where possible.

Cheers!

hmale · 07-30-2002, 04:30 PM

Hi ben,

Fluid capacity is 131 ounces.

bigben2k · 07-30-2002, 04:53 PM

1 gallon and 3 oz.

Very nicely put together, a lot of money went into this.

What are your plans for it?

hmale · 07-30-2002, 05:00 PM

Hi again Ben!

I have an Iwill MPX2 board and a couple of 2100+ MPs that I will be cooling with this setup.

Here is a picture of the board...No CPUs here...I was dry fitting the blocks...not sure if i will be using these.

Cheers!

decodeddiesel · 07-30-2002, 05:00 PM

hmale, I agree with bigben, a lot of time, planning, and $$ went into this project. I assume you got the radiator from McMaster? I was looking at them in the past but the large size and high cost drove me away. You have nicely implemented this component however. It makes those 120mm look like 60mm fans!! I too am currious as to what your plans are, I see a dually board in there, are you looking at dual TECS? heh...that would be awesome.

bigben2k · 07-30-2002, 05:05 PM

Actually, I meant: is this for yourself, or are you building it for someone?

hmale · 07-30-2002, 05:18 PM

Sorry Ben...misunderstood your question.

I have a site that is operational, but I will be officially launching it after I complete this project. This will be the site's "flagship" case.

I intend to operate the site with some other people that work in my MIS department. It will be geared to the enthusiast and hobbyist. I would like it to be a site that has a good mix of technical material (just the engineer in me), some fun topics, but primarily I want it to be a place where people have a free exchange of ideas. For example, if people have a good project that they are working on I will give them the bandwidth to keep a work log open.

This site will be subsidized by me. I don't want to be obliged in any way to sponsers. In the future if some opportunities arise, I will explore them, but I will not be giving up my day job any time soon...LOL.

Cheers!

hmale · 07-30-2002, 05:25 PM

BTW...the computer will reside within the friendly confines of my home...Cheers!

07-30-2002, 11:18 AM	#1
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Project Update (Pics) Hello everyone, Just wanted to keep you guys posted on the project I am working on...got about 2 weeks to go before it is completed (finally)! Cheers!

07-30-2002, 11:20 AM	#2
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	update Here are some more pictures of the radiator mounted in the case Cheers!

07-30-2002, 11:24 AM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Is the rad blocked (of air flow) on the back? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-30-2002, 12:19 PM	#5
BaconGrease Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Richmond Posts: 85	that is just beautiful __________________ Damn that is hot

07-30-2002, 12:44 PM	#8
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	that is a very nice, very big peice of work. What size pump, or pumps are you using. There seems to be a small fortune tied up in brass fittings. Is there a reason U went with 90 degree fittings everywhere? Maybe some copper tubing with soft bends in them would help with keeping flow rates up. Very very nice. The back looks a little odd, 2 small fans, and one huge rad! maybe if it were ducted to the fans, you could help maxamize the rads cooling power. you dont really need more fans, just need even air flow over the whole rad. Very very nice indeed __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

07-30-2002, 11:39 AM	#4
kibbler Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	2 things 1) thats things...big...so incredibly...big... 2) with a radiator that big, you have a heck of a lot more cooling potential than 2 120mm would provide. the way you have it now, i think maybe 2 of the 5 parallel channels are left untouched. Frankly, I'm not even sure how many fans you could use to maximize its potential. A 2x3 120mm array would look really impressive but a little stupid. Up to you, really

07-30-2002, 12:21 PM	#6
_Mike_ Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 29	Can we get some more information on that radiator?

07-30-2002, 12:33 PM	#7
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Mike: look at previous threads started by hmale. Kibbler: i thought one of the goals of watercooling was reducing the fan count...? Anyways his rad is designed for low air flow environments. Hmale: Mmmhh crystal fans... black bezel units... fine

07-30-2002, 01:06 PM	#9
Khledar Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 234	I definately see what big ben is asking about, looks as if there is an acrylic sheet behind the radiator. Ques. is, does the radiator allow air flow, is the air flow restricted by the close acrylic sheet, or is there more space than it appears? __________________ "mooooo" said the cow. ERTW - UBC P4 2.4B @3.01Ghz 167FSB :: Abit IC7 :: 2x256MB HyperX PC3700 :: ASUS 9600XT :: WD Raptor 2x36GB RAID0

07-30-2002, 01:28 PM	#10
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	that thing is beautiful man... could you post the dimensions of that case? just curious. R U planning to add little LEDs here and there? Those have a nice effect. I like the way you made the 'shroud' for the rad. ...I think two 120mms will be OK....not optimal, but that rad should be able to dissipate waaay more heat than that system can produce. How hard will it be to swap drives/cards/mobo? Have you thought about putting the side panels on hinges, and using acrylic "angle iron" in the corners and along the seams for support? It's hard to tell from the pics. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan Last edited by ECUPirate; 07-30-2002 at 03:03 PM.

07-30-2002, 02:10 PM	#11
Wayne Harrow Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: UK, Dagenham Posts: 42	I think he has that sheet at the back of the rad so the air doesnt get forced straight through but it has to travel to the top or bottem to get out so more of the rad is being cooled. __________________ 226w Tec AthlonXP 1600+ @ 1950Mhz Abit KD7 Crucial 2100 DDR Radeon 8500

07-30-2002, 02:49 PM	#12
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Now that's a BIG TOWER hmale, congrats this is a work of art, beatiful. Did you make all by yourself ? __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

07-30-2002, 03:16 PM	#13
comlink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA Posts: 14	A true tower of power Nice work!

07-30-2002, 04:02 PM	#14
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Answers to questions asked Hello to all that have commented. I have found the feedback to be both constructive and thought provoking. Here are some answers to the questions that have come up so far: -The drives and cards are very easy to swap out. The case is large and allows ample room for work. -The case has a removable motherboard tray. -The case's frame is supported by the addition of solid acrylic rods. -The case's interior measuremenst are 36"X18"X14" (92cmX46cmX36cm). -The radiator's specs are as follows: • Originally manufactured as a motor sport “competition cooler coil” • Designed to cool a 600 HP vehicle • Provides high BTU transfer with minimal amount of resistance to high volume flow • Provides maximum cooling in low air flow environments • Headered style cooler featuring 5/8" copper tubes with turbulators, copper headers and cooling fins • ½” fittings • Overall dimensions: 20”x10”x1.5” Here is a picture of the radiator I constructed a shroud for the radiator that would encapsulate it. The shroud is designed to mount on the case's back panel. Here is a picture of the shroud The radiator is mounted to the back panel of the case and is separated from the panel using 1" clear spacers (refer to the pictures above). We must bare in mind that air from the fans will flow through the radiator. Even though the radiator is encapsulated by the shroud and back panel of the case it does not exist in a vacuum. Air from the fans can: 1. Be driven through the radiator if both fans are configured to intake ambient air. This would be a positive air flow environment. 2. Be driven through the radiator if both fans are configured to exhaust air within the encapsulated space. Negative air flow environment. 3. Be driven through a combination of 1 and 2 which would result in a balanced air flow environment. To test the design's effectiveness (prior to committing to the final product), I constructed a foam core model of the case (smaller version) and shroud. I simulated a load in a water circuit using a 156W TEC. Additionally, I used a heating element to simulate a 4-5 degree temperature differential between the interior of the case and ambient temperature. I measured water temperature entering and exiting the radiator using the fan configurations mentioned above. As a control mechanism I performed the same measurements without a shroud and both fans blowing ambient air through the radiator. After repeated testing I was able to measure the following water temperatures exiting the radiator (Given 23.2 degress C ambient and 26.7 degrees case): 1. Without shroud: 28.4 degrees avg. 2. With shroud and 2 fans intaking air: 25.6 degrees avg. 3. With shoud and both fans exhausing air: 24.4 degrees avg. 4. With shroud and one fan as intake and one fan as exhaust: 24.6 degrees avg. Cheers!

07-30-2002, 04:02 PM	#15
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Woot?!?! Hmmmmmm... nice rig.... Where did you get the brass fittings? Please tell me, please, please, please... PS thanks for making my project look positively mundane now... __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

07-30-2002, 04:13 PM	#16
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Hi Fixx...I am a big fan of your work! The pump • Manufactured with noryl housings and impeller, titanium rotor and separating wall, ceramic bearing ball, carbon graphite bearing cap and EPDM o-ring. • Energy efficient (rated at 1.3 amps) and ultra-quiet (less than 30 db). • Features “Dry Run Cutout” with thermal switch for added safety. • Rated for temperatures to 140° F and line pressures to 50 psi • Back pressure management: o 1000 GPH @ 0’ head o 800 GPH @ 3’ head o 240 GPH @24’ head • Dimensions: 5”x6”x3.5” Here is a picture of the pump with its fill and discharge assemply attached I calculated back flow pressure in feet head for: 1. Distance water must travel through the circuit. 2. Resistance through the circuit given a defined distance. 3. Fittings (number and type) 3. Water blocks (number and type) 4. Radiator header I concluded based on my calculations and assumptions that flow rates will be approximately 280 to 320 GPH at 20 to 22 feet head. I am contemplating performing a physical measurement, but I feel relatively comfortable in concluding that the flow rates will suffice with respect to this setup. Cheers!

07-30-2002, 04:23 PM	#17
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Just for kicks... what's the coolant capacity in the rig? i.e. how much water did you put in there? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-30-2002, 04:28 PM	#18
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	more answers ECU...yes, I will be adding some case lighting. Wayne...you grasped the design concept! Nexxio...I got the fittings from McMaster...I used extruded precision fittings rather than cast where possible. Cheers!

07-30-2002, 04:30 PM	#19
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Hi ben, Fluid capacity is 131 ounces.

07-30-2002, 04:53 PM	#20
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	1 gallon and 3 oz. Very nicely put together, a lot of money went into this. What are your plans for it? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-30-2002, 05:00 PM	#21
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Hi again Ben! I have an Iwill MPX2 board and a couple of 2100+ MPs that I will be cooling with this setup. Here is a picture of the board...No CPUs here...I was dry fitting the blocks...not sure if i will be using these. Cheers!

07-30-2002, 05:00 PM	#22
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	hmale, I agree with bigben, a lot of time, planning, and $$ went into this project. I assume you got the radiator from McMaster? I was looking at them in the past but the large size and high cost drove me away. You have nicely implemented this component however. It makes those 120mm look like 60mm fans!! I too am currious as to what your plans are, I see a dually board in there, are you looking at dual TECS? heh...that would be awesome. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

07-30-2002, 05:05 PM	#23
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Actually, I meant: is this for yourself, or are you building it for someone? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-30-2002, 05:18 PM	#24
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	Sorry Ben...misunderstood your question. I have a site that is operational, but I will be officially launching it after I complete this project. This will be the site's "flagship" case. I intend to operate the site with some other people that work in my MIS department. It will be geared to the enthusiast and hobbyist. I would like it to be a site that has a good mix of technical material (just the engineer in me), some fun topics, but primarily I want it to be a place where people have a free exchange of ideas. For example, if people have a good project that they are working on I will give them the bandwidth to keep a work log open. This site will be subsidized by me. I don't want to be obliged in any way to sponsers. In the future if some opportunities arise, I will explore them, but I will not be giving up my day job any time soon...LOL. Cheers!

07-30-2002, 05:25 PM	#25
hmale Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIami, Florida Posts: 169	BTW...the computer will reside within the friendly confines of my home...Cheers!

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