Tested MY Spiral finally....

jaydee · 08-05-2002, 06:15 PM

Finally got around to putting together my little Spiral I milled so long ago. The channel is 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep. I am using 1/4" ID barbs with 3/8" hosing. The total system, GPH is 30.

I had my Duron 1gig in the test bed so I used it for now. 1133mhz, 1.90Vcore, 133FSB, 8.5X multi, Epox 8K7A. Room temp 26C, water temp 29C, CPU idle temp 32C, CPU load temp 37C.

Not to bad for it's small size and low GPH. I had to use my oil cooler rad instead of my heater core so that killed my flow. Cuts it in half. Have the heater core setup for 1/2" and didn't really feel like nor have the time to mod it again to fit 3/8" hosing. I will try to get the XP1600+ in it this weekend if I can find the time.

Fixittt · 08-05-2002, 06:29 PM

*Reminder*

Send lawyers to .................

No not to bad at all.
I still beleive that for a channel designed block. The spiral design is top knotch. With no frills or chills. (No pun intended)

Is it a bolt together or welded?

And.... and......... AND!!!! Its aluminum.... which goes back to what I have always said. Why is copper better, when a correctly deisnged block in aluminum works just as good.

Wonder how it would preform on a hotter Cpu.

jaydee · 08-05-2002, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
*Reminder*

Send lawyers to .................

No not to bad at all.
I still beleive that for a channel designed block. The spiral design is top knotch. With no frills or chills. (No pun intended)

Is it a bolt together or welded?

And.... and......... AND!!!! Its aluminum.... which goes back to what I have always said. Why is copper better, when a correctly deisnged block in aluminum works just as good.

Wonder how it would preform on a hotter Cpu.

It is bolt together with silicone for sealant. I will try to drop in my XP1600+ and OC the hell out of it to see what it will do with a hotter CPU.

Fixittt · 08-05-2002, 06:35 PM

well stop thinking about it and just do it man..... Just do it!

Have we figured out the heat output of a high end XP yet in watts?

I am thinking about making a cpu die simulator and use a pelt to simulate the heat load.

Just for testing....

jaydee · 08-05-2002, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
well stop thinking about it and just do it man..... Just do it!

Have we figured out the heat output of a high end XP yet in watts?

I am thinking about making a cpu die simulator and use a pelt to simulate the heat load.

Just for testing....

Well I have to tear apart another computer the get the XP out and...... lol I can't remember what the wattage outputs nor how to even calculate them anymore. Been a long time. I will see if I can switch it over tonight. Kinda want to know myself.

Yeah I like the pelt for a simulator. Rules out a lot of variables from using an actual computer.

Fixittt · 08-05-2002, 06:42 PM

that and there is no risk of crushing a core.

I am looking to see if i can find some thin copper plate, if I get one made, I will have to send one to ya.

So, when U ship off next?

jaydee · 08-05-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
that and there is no risk of crushing a core.

I am looking to see if i can find some thin copper plate, if I get one made, I will have to send one to ya.

So, when U ship off next?

I will be in town for 2-3 weeks! We hit a slow down finally. My next job goes out rougly the 25-29th somewhere in there.

webmedic · 08-05-2002, 07:44 PM

looks nice jaydee.

Jimbo · 08-05-2002, 07:58 PM

Very nice work. ...if I only had access to those tools!!!

ambient · 08-06-2002, 11:28 AM

there is a web site that allows you to input processor speed and it will output watts and .cw. I thought I book marked it but i guess not.

airspirit · 08-06-2002, 04:46 PM

Copper is better than aluminum. It conducts heat faster and it can HOLD more heat than aluminum. Basically what that means is that your block is more efficient and more resistant to temperature spikes from the block. There is absolutely no reason to make a block out of aluminum since copper is not much more expensive. Furthermore, anybody that says that Al and Cu blocks work the same is wrong. Unless you screw up the test horribly, you will not be able to set up a test that gets you identical results. It is impossible.

It goes without saying that this also sets you up for the battery effect in the fluid.

bigben2k · 08-06-2002, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
Copper is better than aluminum. It conducts heat faster and it can HOLD more heat than aluminum. Basically what that means is that your block is more efficient and more resistant to temperature spikes from the block. There is absolutely no reason to make a block out of aluminum since copper is not much more expensive. Furthermore, anybody that says that Al and Cu blocks work the same is wrong. Unless you screw up the test horribly, you will not be able to set up a test that gets you identical results. It is impossible.

It goes without saying that this also sets you up for the battery effect in the fluid.

...but if you paid attention to what Jaydee has been saying, copper is also much harder to mill, because of its higher density, so Jaydee has opted to stick with Aluminium, for now.

Perfectly commendable, if you ask me. There are many possibilities with Aluminium alone. At a flow rate of 200 gph and above, the temp diff you'll get between Alu and Cu is about 3 deg C.

jaydee · 08-06-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
Copper is better than aluminum. It conducts heat faster and it can HOLD more heat than aluminum. Basically what that means is that your block is more efficient and more resistant to temperature spikes from the block. There is absolutely no reason to make a block out of aluminum since copper is not much more expensive. Furthermore, anybody that says that Al and Cu blocks work the same is wrong. Unless you screw up the test horribly, you will not be able to set up a test that gets you identical results. It is impossible.

It goes without saying that this also sets you up for the battery effect in the fluid.

Like I said before, Copper is far harder to mill than AL. It would cost me $10 worth of tooling to mill a block in Copper as opposed to $1.50 in Aluminum.

And the temp difference between AL and Copper is minimal. I made two identical blocks in both AL and Copper and got a whole .5C difference in temps. Sure Copper is better to a small degree, but not better enough to warrant the abuse on my small mill nor the extra cost of more expensive tooling to do it. Go buy a $2,000 mill and see how you take care of it.

The battery effect and growth are small issue. Remeber none of my blocks get used for more than a week!

If I were to sell these blocks I would get them anodized and use non brass barbs. But I don't. And as for Copper not being that much more expensive???? What? $18.55 a foot for .5"X2" Copper Stock, and $5.62 for .5"x2" AL stock. I can get it cheaper by the 12ft stick but the price difference remain the same. When you make a dozen blocks a year it adds up.

myv65 · 08-06-2002, 07:51 PM

I'd add that the battery effect is purely a function of a metal's position in the galvanic series and the conductivity of the connecting "circuit". If you use an aluminum block and radiator and avoid metal fittings, voila, no galvanic corrosion. Only mixed metals will result in corrosion.

jaydee · 08-06-2002, 08:07 PM

Yeah, aggree with that. I use brass barbs on my AL blocks and it does cause that battery effect slightly, if I where to use the blocks for a longer period of time I would use nylon barbs, but i am always changing them out. The biggest problem I get with AL blocks is the growth that accures, the white slime that is. That can drastically be reduced by using distilled water and watter wetter though. I lost my intrest in high performance cooling otherwise I may pay the extra for better tooling and go with copper (to gain a degree cooler temp) but now I am more into quite cooling. My computers are way faster than they need to be anyway. If it wasn't for SETI I would still be using Duron 600's @ 900+.

I don't know if I am just getting old (25 lol) or just practicle but I lossing interest in trying to make my computer faster. Everytime I get my CPU faster they come out with a faster CPU. Just seems like a waste of time anymore. I do however have the need for quite as I am slowly building my SETI farm and when you have 3 highspeed aircoolers (soon to be more) is gets rather loud.

dream caster · 08-06-2002, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
well stop thinking about it and just do it man..... Just do it!

Have we figured out the heat output of a high end XP yet in watts?

I am thinking about making a cpu die simulator and use a pelt to simulate the heat load.

Just for testing....

Install Watts Calculator III;read the details here

jaydee · 08-06-2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dream caster

Install Watts Calculator III;read the details here

Bah! I downloaded it but it didn't work. Keeps giving a "class not registered. Looking for object with CSLID:{bunch of numbers}"

Anyway I put the XP1600+ in ther an hour ago and so far it is running 37.5C at default settings. 1.85Vcore. 1400mhz. Water temp 29.5C, room temp 25.6C. Actually running about the same as the Duron at 1.90Vcore and 1133mhz.

ambient · 08-06-2002, 09:40 PM

eh Jd if your getting a message about CLSID not registered, either say Yes if it asks you if you want to register it or just reinstall the app.

jaydee · 08-06-2002, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ambient
eh Jd if your getting a message about CLSID not registered, either say Yes if it asks you if you want to register it or just reinstall the app.

Well it is an actual error message, just as an "ok" button. Then it goes to the program but nothing works. Can't reinstall the program because you don't really install it to begine with. Just copy the files from the zip to a new folder.

Also I am using WinXp, might be the problem. I will try it on one of my Win9X comps later.

ambient · 08-07-2002, 11:15 AM

Yeah it might be XP, I installed it on Win2k and it works fine. It only tells you what the heat load in watts and what % of an overclock you have. It doesn't give you .cw info like Radiate did.

jaydee · 08-09-2002, 10:59 PM

Just for an update. I doubled my GPH to rougly 60gph. Showed 0 increase or drop in temps. I also switched over to my heater core. Getting the same water temps though I I am now only using 1 120mm fan instead of two. Room temp 25.5C, water temp 30.1C, and CPU temp 38C load.

Now note my testing is based off of unscientifically advanced measurment systems! I use a 1 gallon jug and time it a few times. Also I use thermisters for the temp reading. Sorry if this is not accurate enough. This is how I based my probe accuracy.
http://www.custom-cooling.com/temptest.html

Note this was with NO air movement around the socket at that will give false reading. Also the numbers in that test are not the setup in this post.

Fixittt · 08-12-2002, 11:34 PM

Ok who now wants to argue that copper is better then aluminum? Like I have always said, a well designed block in aluminum can preform just as good as a copper block.

Any takers?

Good job jay!

B!T@H`N

morphling1 · 08-13-2002, 05:50 AM

He,he me me

When I get my new machine I'll made two exactly the same blocks and then test it on my machine, where I can read internal diode from xp plus I can get some serrious wattage with 1.98Ghz @ 2.16V where I think the difference will definetly show.

bigben2k · 08-13-2002, 08:53 AM

I don't think anyone is fooled: there is a difference, but under the right circumstances, the difference can be minimal. A 3 deg C difference is what I would expect, but the price would be different too: Where a Maze3 costs $42, the Aluminium equivalent might cost $28 (I don't know). For someone that's not going for a massive overclock, that would be perfectly acceptable.

pHaestus · 08-13-2002, 09:16 AM

Not seeing a difference when changing flow rates would be a sign to me that your monitoring equipment needs better resolution.

Re: CPU power:

Use the equation I forced through the "AMD typical power usage" for the XP, and keep it at default volts. AMD doesn't have any numbers for over volting in their tech docs

Yes radiate is that far off.

08-05-2002, 06:15 PM	#1
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Tested MY Spiral finally.... Finally got around to putting together my little Spiral I milled so long ago. The channel is 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep. I am using 1/4" ID barbs with 3/8" hosing. The total system, GPH is 30. I had my Duron 1gig in the test bed so I used it for now. 1133mhz, 1.90Vcore, 133FSB, 8.5X multi, Epox 8K7A. Room temp 26C, water temp 29C, CPU idle temp 32C, CPU load temp 37C. Not to bad for it's small size and low GPH. I had to use my oil cooler rad instead of my heater core so that killed my flow. Cuts it in half. Have the heater core setup for 1/2" and didn't really feel like nor have the time to mod it again to fit 3/8" hosing. I will try to get the XP1600+ in it this weekend if I can find the time.

08-05-2002, 06:29 PM	#2
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Reminder Send lawyers to ................. No not to bad at all. I still beleive that for a channel designed block. The spiral design is top knotch. With no frills or chills. (No pun intended) Is it a bolt together or welded? And.... and......... AND!!!! Its aluminum.... which goes back to what I have always said. Why is copper better, when a correctly deisnged block in aluminum works just as good. Wonder how it would preform on a hotter Cpu. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

08-05-2002, 06:35 PM	#4
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	well stop thinking about it and just do it man..... Just do it! Have we figured out the heat output of a high end XP yet in watts? I am thinking about making a cpu die simulator and use a pelt to simulate the heat load. Just for testing.... __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

08-05-2002, 06:42 PM	#6
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	that and there is no risk of crushing a core. I am looking to see if i can find some thin copper plate, if I get one made, I will have to send one to ya. So, when U ship off next? __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

08-05-2002, 07:44 PM	#8
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	looks nice jaydee. __________________ www.water-cool.com

08-05-2002, 07:58 PM	#9
Jimbo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 12	Very nice work. ...if I only had access to those tools!!!

08-06-2002, 11:28 AM	#10
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	there is a web site that allows you to input processor speed and it will output watts and .cw. I thought I book marked it but i guess not. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-06-2002, 04:46 PM	#11
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Copper is better than aluminum. It conducts heat faster and it can HOLD more heat than aluminum. Basically what that means is that your block is more efficient and more resistant to temperature spikes from the block. There is absolutely no reason to make a block out of aluminum since copper is not much more expensive. Furthermore, anybody that says that Al and Cu blocks work the same is wrong. Unless you screw up the test horribly, you will not be able to set up a test that gets you identical results. It is impossible. It goes without saying that this also sets you up for the battery effect in the fluid.

08-06-2002, 07:51 PM	#14
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	I'd add that the battery effect is purely a function of a metal's position in the galvanic series and the conductivity of the connecting "circuit". If you use an aluminum block and radiator and avoid metal fittings, voila, no galvanic corrosion. Only mixed metals will result in corrosion.

08-06-2002, 08:07 PM	#15
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Yeah, aggree with that. I use brass barbs on my AL blocks and it does cause that battery effect slightly, if I where to use the blocks for a longer period of time I would use nylon barbs, but i am always changing them out. The biggest problem I get with AL blocks is the growth that accures, the white slime that is. That can drastically be reduced by using distilled water and watter wetter though. I lost my intrest in high performance cooling otherwise I may pay the extra for better tooling and go with copper (to gain a degree cooler temp) but now I am more into quite cooling. My computers are way faster than they need to be anyway. If it wasn't for SETI I would still be using Duron 600's @ 900+. I don't know if I am just getting old (25 lol) or just practicle but I lossing interest in trying to make my computer faster. Everytime I get my CPU faster they come out with a faster CPU. Just seems like a waste of time anymore. I do however have the need for quite as I am slowly building my SETI farm and when you have 3 highspeed aircoolers (soon to be more) is gets rather loud.

08-06-2002, 09:40 PM	#18
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	eh Jd if your getting a message about CLSID not registered, either say Yes if it asks you if you want to register it or just reinstall the app. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-07-2002, 11:15 AM	#20
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	Yeah it might be XP, I installed it on Win2k and it works fine. It only tells you what the heat load in watts and what % of an overclock you have. It doesn't give you .cw info like Radiate did. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-09-2002, 10:59 PM	#21
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Just for an update. I doubled my GPH to rougly 60gph. Showed 0 increase or drop in temps. I also switched over to my heater core. Getting the same water temps though I I am now only using 1 120mm fan instead of two. Room temp 25.5C, water temp 30.1C, and CPU temp 38C load. Now note my testing is based off of unscientifically advanced measurment systems! I use a 1 gallon jug and time it a few times. Also I use thermisters for the temp reading. Sorry if this is not accurate enough. This is how I based my probe accuracy. http://www.custom-cooling.com/temptest.html Note this was with NO air movement around the socket at that will give false reading. Also the numbers in that test are not the setup in this post.

08-12-2002, 11:34 PM	#22
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Ok who now wants to argue that copper is better then aluminum? Like I have always said, a well designed block in aluminum can preform just as good as a copper block. Any takers? Good job jay! B!T@H`N __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

08-13-2002, 05:50 AM	#23
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	He,he me me When I get my new machine I'll made two exactly the same blocks and then test it on my machine, where I can read internal diode from xp plus I can get some serrious wattage with 1.98Ghz @ 2.16V where I think the difference will definetly show. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

08-13-2002, 08:53 AM	#24
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I don't think anyone is fooled: there is a difference, but under the right circumstances, the difference can be minimal. A 3 deg C difference is what I would expect, but the price would be different too: Where a Maze3 costs $42, the Aluminium equivalent might cost $28 (I don't know). For someone that's not going for a massive overclock, that would be perfectly acceptable. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-13-2002, 09:16 AM	#25
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Not seeing a difference when changing flow rates would be a sign to me that your monitoring equipment needs better resolution. Re: CPU power: Use the equation I forced through the "AMD typical power usage" for the XP, and keep it at default volts. AMD doesn't have any numbers for over volting in their tech docs Yes radiate is that far off.

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