Any significant advantage to two rads?

JimS · 09-16-2002, 10:45 AM

Anyone out there running dual radiators? If so, how much of a difference between what you have now and a single radiator setup.

I have 3 pelts running on a waterchiller and I am thinking a second radiator might help quite a bit.

Thanx in advance for any input.

WebMasta33 · 09-16-2002, 11:16 AM

I'm running dual BiXs on a the below system.

Since the Soyo board I'm running doesn't have an in socket thermistor, and the Tbird doesn't have a onboard temp probe, I really dont' know the temp anymore (from when I had the KG7). However, the tubing feels cooler, like alot cooler. It never gets soft, and feels cool to the touch. (Tygon)

I just think that having one BiX with a GeForce 3 heavily oc'd and a Tbird O'c (look@sig) was just being overpowered.

jtroutma · 09-16-2002, 04:50 PM

Here is a simple way of looking at it.

A radiator is simply the surface area where your water in your system has to reach ambient room temperature. The more surface area you have to work with, the closer to ambient you can obtain. You can NOT get your water temp below ambient without some sort of active cooling (AKA phase exchange, etc)

One HUGE radiator will probably work almost as good as two smaller radiators (as long as the overal surface area remains the same)

If you do decide to go with a dual radiator setup, then make sure you are running the radiators in parallel, NOT series. In parallel, each radiator gets the greatest delta between ambient and water temp and then each radiator only has to do half the work. In series, your delta is much lower after the first radiator and thus the second one will not be very efficent at all.

Since you are running sooo many pelts, a dual radiator setup in parallel should be very benefical for you. The lower the water temp cooling your pelts hot sides, the lower your cold sides can go.

Hope this helps.

bigben2k · 09-16-2002, 05:17 PM

The first test would be to check your water temp, and you should be able to do that with just about any thermometer.

If your water temps is above 30 deg C, then yes, you would benefit from a 2nd rad. If not, the result might not justify the expense.

Rads are efficient with hot water, but as the temp decreases, the radiator becomes less and less efficient. In other words, it's fairly easy for a rad to bring 30 deg C water down by one deg, but it's very, very hard for it to bring it down to ambient.

gmat · 09-16-2002, 06:32 PM

2 rads have twice the thermal transfer potential of 1 rad, since they have about twice the surface area.
Now as said BB2K they are needed only in heavy load cases, with 3 waterblocks or more.

(edit) and 2 rads in parallel are even better since you reduce the flow in both rads...

JimS · 09-16-2002, 06:42 PM

While I certainly agree with all of the above posts, I have one comment. According to the specs on my heatercore, it can handle up to 900W. Now I am nowhere near that load. So that is why I ask if another rad is really going to help that much.

BrianH · 09-16-2002, 06:56 PM

Jims

I am running dual loop system. The first loop is for the CPU and the second loop is for the GPU. I have found the temps to be very low on my CPU. Idle they are around 29C and full load is 34C. This is on a 2.0A@2.8 with 1.85V running Folding for 24hrs.

So I have 2 pumps, 2 BIX's, Maze 3, and Geforce 4 blocks.

I hope to add a liquid chipset and maybe Video ram coolers later

(Anyone know of one for the Asus P4B533-e chipset. There are no holds, just anchors??)

here are some Pics , scroll down abit.

BrianH

JimS · 09-16-2002, 07:15 PM

Brian, thanx for the reply. Interestingly enough, we have exactly the same case and very similar setups. I also have two pumps on the right side of the Chenbro 103 case.

My setup is a bit different in that my loops are one for the hot side and one for the cold side, being that I use an inline chiller.

One of these days I am going to get the digital camera out and take some snapshots for all to see.

BrianH · 09-16-2002, 07:34 PM

I found that this case was great to work on... lots of room..

Do you know of a northbridge block that would fit the Asus P4B533-E w/ Intel 845E chipset. It has 4 loops in the MB and a spring like wire that centers in the middle of the heatsink to hold it down. Actually, quite effective but no hold!

bigben2k · 09-17-2002, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimS
While I certainly agree with all of the above posts, I have one comment. According to the specs on my heatercore, it can handle up to 900W. Now I am nowhere near that load. So that is why I ask if another rad is really going to help that much.

It may be able to handle 900 Watts, but that doesn't mean that the water temp is going to come out of it at ambient.

hmale used a very large racing radiator (not heatercore) and he was still a few degrees above ambient.

What's your coolant temp?

MadDogMe · 09-17-2002, 07:19 AM

Quote:

According to the specs on my heatercore, it can handle up to 900W

Don't forget HeaterCores are designed to throw out heat from a very hot sustained heat source, not to cool that heat source down. so the ratings are neither here nor there really

.

Basicly, IMO you only need two rads if you have a very high heatload: TECs.
Multiple blocks don't always need more IMO, dual CPU's maybe.

JimS · 09-17-2002, 07:54 AM

Brian, I make my own blocks so I couldn't help you with the chipset block. If you want, email me the hole measurements and I could possibly make one for you. I'll send you a picture of my chipset block to see if you are interested.

bigben, cold water temp is 12C, hot water temp is 44C. I think another rad is exactly what I need.

bigben2k · 09-17-2002, 08:11 AM

I agree there, Jim! At 44 deg C, an extra heatercore would work very well.

Let us know.

wymjym · 09-17-2002, 11:55 AM

Jim,
are you insulating at those water temps (12c) ? if so how extensively?
thanks,
wj

JimS · 09-17-2002, 06:03 PM

wymjym, I am really just now experimenting with these new chillerblocks I made. So far it looks like I am going to have to insulate the CPU area and waterblock, the NB block and my copper reservoir as all accumulate quite a bit of condensation after about 30 minutes. The tygon tubing seems to only get a tiny amount of condensation, but I have not run the system fully chilled for more than an hour.

Presently I am just running two pelts instead of three and this allows me to keep the CPU a couple degrees above ambient and pretty much eliminates condensation. As soon as I connect the third pelt though, its a whole different ballgame.

This weekend I will experiment more and decide on an insulation plan. Hope to get some pics up on my wesbsite that I can link to as well.

wymjym · 09-19-2002, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimS
As soon as I connect the third pelt though, its a whole different ballgame.

yeh, so I thought why not, I adjusted my chiller a little cooler (would you believe just 2 degrees) to see if the cpu would read cooler or not ...and noticed the hose start to get condensation on it...opened up the case and the side of my block was showing a slight amount of condensation...so I guess I really was at the very cusp and didn't know it. I think I'll just build a prettier box and be happy.
wj
my chiller

09-16-2002, 10:45 AM	#1
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Any significant advantage to two rads? Anyone out there running dual radiators? If so, how much of a difference between what you have now and a single radiator setup. I have 3 pelts running on a waterchiller and I am thinking a second radiator might help quite a bit. Thanx in advance for any input.

09-16-2002, 11:16 AM	#2
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	I'm running dual BiXs on a the below system. Since the Soyo board I'm running doesn't have an in socket thermistor, and the Tbird doesn't have a onboard temp probe, I really dont' know the temp anymore (from when I had the KG7). However, the tubing feels cooler, like alot cooler. It never gets soft, and feels cool to the touch. (Tygon) I just think that having one BiX with a GeForce 3 heavily oc'd and a Tbird O'c (look@sig) was just being overpowered. __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

09-16-2002, 04:50 PM	#3
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Here is a simple way of looking at it. A radiator is simply the surface area where your water in your system has to reach ambient room temperature. The more surface area you have to work with, the closer to ambient you can obtain. You can NOT get your water temp below ambient without some sort of active cooling (AKA phase exchange, etc) One HUGE radiator will probably work almost as good as two smaller radiators (as long as the overal surface area remains the same) If you do decide to go with a dual radiator setup, then make sure you are running the radiators in parallel, NOT series. In parallel, each radiator gets the greatest delta between ambient and water temp and then each radiator only has to do half the work. In series, your delta is much lower after the first radiator and thus the second one will not be very efficent at all. Since you are running sooo many pelts, a dual radiator setup in parallel should be very benefical for you. The lower the water temp cooling your pelts hot sides, the lower your cold sides can go. Hope this helps. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

09-16-2002, 05:17 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The first test would be to check your water temp, and you should be able to do that with just about any thermometer. If your water temps is above 30 deg C, then yes, you would benefit from a 2nd rad. If not, the result might not justify the expense. Rads are efficient with hot water, but as the temp decreases, the radiator becomes less and less efficient. In other words, it's fairly easy for a rad to bring 30 deg C water down by one deg, but it's very, very hard for it to bring it down to ambient. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-17-2002, 08:11 AM	#13
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I agree there, Jim! At 44 deg C, an extra heatercore would work very well. Let us know. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-16-2002, 06:32 PM	#5
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	2 rads have twice the thermal transfer potential of 1 rad, since they have about twice the surface area. Now as said BB2K they are needed only in heavy load cases, with 3 waterblocks or more. (edit) and 2 rads in parallel are even better since you reduce the flow in both rads...

09-16-2002, 06:42 PM	#6
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	While I certainly agree with all of the above posts, I have one comment. According to the specs on my heatercore, it can handle up to 900W. Now I am nowhere near that load. So that is why I ask if another rad is really going to help that much.

09-16-2002, 06:56 PM	#7
BrianH Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ont, Canada Posts: 115	Jims I am running dual loop system. The first loop is for the CPU and the second loop is for the GPU. I have found the temps to be very low on my CPU. Idle they are around 29C and full load is 34C. This is on a 2.0A@2.8 with 1.85V running Folding for 24hrs. So I have 2 pumps, 2 BIX's, Maze 3, and Geforce 4 blocks. I hope to add a liquid chipset and maybe Video ram coolers later (Anyone know of one for the Asus P4B533-e chipset. There are no holds, just anchors??) here are some Pics , scroll down abit. BrianH

09-16-2002, 07:15 PM	#8
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Brian, thanx for the reply. Interestingly enough, we have exactly the same case and very similar setups. I also have two pumps on the right side of the Chenbro 103 case. My setup is a bit different in that my loops are one for the hot side and one for the cold side, being that I use an inline chiller. One of these days I am going to get the digital camera out and take some snapshots for all to see.

09-16-2002, 07:34 PM	#9
BrianH Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ont, Canada Posts: 115	I found that this case was great to work on... lots of room.. Do you know of a northbridge block that would fit the Asus P4B533-E w/ Intel 845E chipset. It has 4 loops in the MB and a spring like wire that centers in the middle of the heatsink to hold it down. Actually, quite effective but no hold!

09-17-2002, 07:54 AM	#12
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Brian, I make my own blocks so I couldn't help you with the chipset block. If you want, email me the hole measurements and I could possibly make one for you. I'll send you a picture of my chipset block to see if you are interested. bigben, cold water temp is 12C, hot water temp is 44C. I think another rad is exactly what I need.

09-17-2002, 11:55 AM	#14
wymjym Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: near Austin Posts: 96	Jim, are you insulating at those water temps (12c) ? if so how extensively? thanks, wj

09-17-2002, 06:03 PM	#15
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	wymjym, I am really just now experimenting with these new chillerblocks I made. So far it looks like I am going to have to insulate the CPU area and waterblock, the NB block and my copper reservoir as all accumulate quite a bit of condensation after about 30 minutes. The tygon tubing seems to only get a tiny amount of condensation, but I have not run the system fully chilled for more than an hour. Presently I am just running two pelts instead of three and this allows me to keep the CPU a couple degrees above ambient and pretty much eliminates condensation. As soon as I connect the third pelt though, its a whole different ballgame. This weekend I will experiment more and decide on an insulation plan. Hope to get some pics up on my wesbsite that I can link to as well.

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